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 Revamping the Wiki

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NickTheNick
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PostSubject: Revamping the Wiki   Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:36 pm

So it's been a few years and our wiki strategy has changed quite a bit, so I (moopli) decided it's high time we update this post.

We need to start updating the wiki on a regular basis and making it the "final word" for the current concept. It is much easier to read up on the current concept of an area through a well organized wiki than through a messy and busy forum. Understandably, it can feel a little pointless to write things up on a wiki if you're not sure they reflect finalized design, but it is still vastly more useful to have well-organized work-in-progress on the wiki than spread all around the forum. Just make sure that pages with un-finalized design are labeled as such.

We previously had this plan where we would have pages get vetted by an admin before posting, but now with the application system we need not really worry about that; and of course, we can easily revert malicious edits and deal with bad people, so this whole vetting thing can go right out the window. So, if you want to help:

A) Write wiki pages.

Sidenote: Translating wiki pages isn't all too important -- the wiki is for devs, and we all use english as it's the internet lingua franca, so translations on the wiki are redundant at best.

more old stuff I will update later:
 
Oliver's list of suggested pages:
 

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Last edited by moopli on Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:37 pm; edited 14 times in total (Reason for editing : This sorely needed a cleaning)
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PostSubject: Re: Revamping the Wiki   Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:43 pm

I will go first. I offer to update the wiki entries on the Aware Stage and the Society Stage, including the transition I wrote up. I might even go for the Industrial too.

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PostSubject: Re: Revamping the Wiki   Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:44 pm

Sure thing Nick, go right ahead. And might I add, you are quite a handsome young fellow.

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PostSubject: Re: Revamping the Wiki   Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:08 pm

NickTheNick wrote:
Sure thing Nick, go right ahead. And might I add, you are quite a handsome young fellow.

Real life laugh was produced. Ahah.

I think that updating the wiki will help a lot for two reason.

1 - There are probably a lot of up-to-date information on it. However, seeing that most of it haven't been updated since 2010, it's hard to find which information is good and which isn't. Some page might just need some tweaking. It would be easy to update it so anyone know that it is still up-to-date.

2 - We need somewhere to hold the truth. There are a lot of information on the forum, but it is sometime hard to look through 5-10-20 page of a thread to find what is still true. When you look at the wiki, you know there is only true information. I would also see relevant thread being available on the wiki page. This way, you could still have access to the discussion that lead to the current state of the concept without having to read all of it.

As a developer, I really want to have easy access to specifics information/list without having to search all around the forum. Just a quick look-up at the wiki will allow me to see what I want and get back to coding faster!

Also, I see that sciocont updated the Microbe Editor around two weeks ago. First update as been done. No excuse to wait for more time

edit : Main page should be a top priority. It should give easy access to all main concept and a "quick" explanation that link those concept together.
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PostSubject: Re: Revamping the Wiki   Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:54 am

This is what i done for today:

Strategy Mode is one of Thrive's three gameplay modes. In Strategy Mode, the player controls multiple individuals at once with an RTS-like interface. Like all modes, Strategy Mode is accessible within all game stages. It becomes more important later on in the game, however: while the player rarely has to control more than a few individuals before sapience, later stages (starting at the Society Stage) involve warfare between large groups of individuals that are better controlled as military units. Some helpful game mechanics that are implemented to make Strategy Mode better for the player are:

The Nation Editor, which controls the entirety of the player's controlled nation.
Society Centres, which allow high-density population management without flooding the player.
Military Centres, which are useful for war and military unit management.
Squads, which reduce micromanagement in large scale conflicts and allow effective and realistic tactics.
While playing this mode with a sapient race, the player will also come across the Tech Editor and the Research Tree.

Corection: Strategy mode isnt avalivable during all stages except sandbox. That needs to be fixed.

Serbian translation of strategy mode page:

Strategijski mode

Strategijski mode je jedan od Thrive-ovih tri moda igranja. U strategijskom modu, igrač kontroliše više jedinica od jednom sa RTS- sličnim interfejsom. Kao svi mode-i, strategijskom mode-u se može pristupiti u svim fazama igre (by my correction: svim fazama osim mikrobialne). Postaje važnija kasnije u igri, iako: igrač rijetko ima kontrolu nad više od nekoliko jedinica prije inteligencije, kasnije faze (počevši od društvene faze) uključuju rat između velikih grupa jedinica koje su bolje kontrolisane kao vojne jedinice.
Nekoliko pomoćnih mehanika koje su dodate da strategijski mode bude bolji za igrača su:

Editor nacije, koji kontroliše čitav igračevu naciju.
Društveni centri, koji omogućavaju kontrolu velike populacije bez nerviranja igrača.
Vojni centri, koji su korisni za rat i menadžment vojnih jedinica.
Odjeljenja, koja smanjuju mikromenadžment i čine taktiku realističnijom.

Kad igra kao inteligentna vrsta, igrač će takođe naći editor tehnologije i drveta istraživanja.
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Tarpy
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PostSubject: Re: Revamping the Wiki   Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:19 am

@WilliamstheJohn- Good description of the strategy mode.

Your translation is pretty good as well, but there are a few mistakes that I would like to point out:

[quote=WilliamstheJohn]
Strategijski mode Strateški mod

Strategijski mode Strateški mod je jedan od Thrive-ovih tri moda igranja. U strategijskom strateškom modu, igrač kontroliše više jedinica pojedinaca od jednom sa RTS- sličnim interfejsom. Kao svi mode-i modovi, strategijskom mode-u strateškom modu se može pristupiti u svim fazama igre (by my correction: svim fazama osim mikrobialne). Postaje važnija kasnije u igri, iako: igrač rijetko although "rijetko" is technically right, it is used in Croatia, Bosnia and the like. In Serbian, you say "retko" ima kontrolu nad više od nekoliko jedinica prije pojedinaca pre inteligencije, kasnije faze (počevši od društvene faze) uključuju rat između velikih grupa jedinica pojedinaca koje su bolje kontrolisane kao vojne jedinice.
Nekoliko pomoćnih mehanika koje su dodate da strategijski modemod bude bolji za igrača su:

Editor nacije, koji kontroliše čitav čitavu igračevu naciju.
Društveni centri, koji omogućavaju kontrolu velike populacije bez nerviranja igrača.
Vojni centri, koji su korisni za rat i menadžment vojnih jedinica.
Odjeljenja, koja smanjuju mikromenadžment i čine taktiku realističnijom.

Kad igra kao inteligentna vrsta, igrač će takođe naći editor tehnologije i drveta istraživanjadrvo istražicanja.[/quote]

The translation was good, just a few recurring mistakes. Did you use google translate?

Also, I really, really agree with you, Nick. The wiki is in a dire state. I am willing to apply for updating the "Function Part" page on the wiki, since we really made a lot of progress. I will post my suggestion for the wiki page soon.
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WilliamstheJohn
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PostSubject: Re: Revamping the Wiki   Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:50 am

Tarpy wrote:
@WilliamstheJohn- Good description of the strategy mode.

Your translation is pretty good as well, but there are a few mistakes that I would like to point out:

[quote=WilliamstheJohn]
Strategijski mode Strateški mod

Strategijski mode Strateški mod je jedan od Thrive-ovih tri moda igranja. U strategijskom strateškom modu, igrač kontroliše više jedinica pojedinaca od jednom sa RTS- sličnim interfejsom. Kao svi mode-i modovi, strategijskom mode-u strateškom modu se može pristupiti u svim fazama igre (by my correction: svim fazama osim mikrobialne). Postaje važnija kasnije u igri, iako: igrač rijetko although "rijetko" is technically right, it is used in Croatia, Bosnia and the like. In Serbian, you say "retko" ima kontrolu nad više od nekoliko jedinica prije pojedinaca pre inteligencije, kasnije faze (počevši od društvene faze) uključuju rat između velikih grupa jedinica pojedinaca koje su bolje kontrolisane kao vojne jedinice.
Nekoliko pomoćnih mehanika koje su dodate da strategijski modemod bude bolji za igrača su:

Editor nacije, koji kontroliše čitav čitavu igračevu naciju.
Društveni centri, koji omogućavaju kontrolu velike populacije bez nerviranja igrača.
Vojni centri, koji su korisni za rat i menadžment vojnih jedinica.
Odjeljenja, koja smanjuju mikromenadžment i čine taktiku realističnijom.

Kad igra kao inteligentna vrsta, igrač će takođe naći editor tehnologije i drveta istraživanjadrvo istražicanja.

The translation was good, just a few recurring mistakes. Did you use google translate?

Also, I really, really agree with you, Nick. The wiki is in a dire state. I am willing to apply for updating the "Function Part" page on the wiki, since we really made a lot of progress. I will post my suggestion for the wiki page soon. [/quote]

No i didnt use google translate. It would be worst idea ever, it sometimes makes really belgium mistakes. Sory for that with ,,strateški'', i had little problems with chosing what i will say at it.And i misspeled several words like in word ,,čitavu''. And you made mistake when you said ,,istražicanja''. It sounded little funny, beacuse ,,žica'' is wire.
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PostSubject: Re: Revamping the Wiki   Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:05 am

lol, didnt event notice the mistake.

Also, since I live in Serbia, and serbian is my native language, you can send me your translated texts if you would like me to check them.
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PostSubject: Re: Revamping the Wiki   Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:38 am

I agree with rodgame, i have been having to search through the forum for info. (to add to my prototype) and have resorted to asking people directly.

---

Next update on prototype should be available by Monday, lots of cool thing to show you guys (by the way)
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PostSubject: Re: Revamping the Wiki   Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:32 am

To update the wiki in an orderly manner, we could apply the following strategy:


  1. Identify key topics like "Microbe Stage", "AutoEvo" or "Artwork"
  2. For each key topic, create a skeleton article that contains nothing but links to relevant forum discussions
  3. Condense the information in those linked discussions to create a clear and consistent concept, filling out the skeleton article as we go

The third step will be the most work, but with the first two steps we would already have an entry point for newcomers (such as myself) looking for information.

In any case, it will be really important to keep the Wiki up-to-date when we revise any concepts. Any discussion in the forums should be linked on the relevant wiki pages. That will be time-consuming work and might warrant appointing a dedicated "Wiki-Warden". In my experience, it won't do to rely on the forum posters to update the wiki on their own. Most (including myself) will simply forget.
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PostSubject: Re: Revamping the Wiki   Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:42 am

Tarpy wrote:
lol, didnt event notice the mistake.

Also, since I live in Serbia, and serbian is my native language, you can send me your translated texts if you would like me to check them.

Hey, i also live in here!

Anyways, i think space stage page really should be updated.


Last edited by WilliamstheJohn on Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Revamping the Wiki   Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:43 am

Well Nick, I'm willing to keep the wiki up-to-date, but perhaps we should compile a short list of what is in most need of a refresh? I'll try and find something to update, but it would be more helpful to have a list.

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PostSubject: Re: Revamping the Wiki   Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:46 am

WJacobC wrote:
Well Nick, I'm willing to keep the wiki up-to-date, but perhaps we should compile a short list of what is in most need of a refresh? I'll try and find something to update, but it would be more helpful to have a list.

That would be really helpful.

I made a little ,,update'' for observer mode:

Current page:

Observer Mode is one of the three gameplay modes in Thrive. In Observer Mode, the player controls the camera rather than any individuals in particular.

That what needs to be added:

Observer Mode is one of the three gameplay modes in Thrive. In Observer Mode, the player controls the camera rather than any individuals in particular. Its made mostly for machinimas and videos.

Unlocking
Observer mode will be acessible after ascension and in sandbox game.



Last edited by WilliamstheJohn on Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:50 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Update)
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PostSubject: Re: Revamping the Wiki   Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:26 pm

Whoa, good to see so much feedback so soon!

So first of all, on the OP, I will keep track of all the pages that are being done by the different members. That way we can avoid people doing overlapping work. I will also post pages that are pointed out to be lacking. However, I won't put all the pages that need to be done, since that would be a lot. You guys need to go and read the wiki yourselves and decide what you want to contribute to.

@RodGame: I fully agree. It's nice to have you as my second-hand man on this.

@WilliamsTheJohn: Great to see you've done one so soon. However, I'm not sure as to whether you have made the changes that Tarpy pointed out. Can you post the final version for the wiki?

@Tarpy: FP page is yours. I might add some stuff later too.

@untrustedlife: Great, can't wait to see and try it out!

@Nimbal: Aha, "Skeleton" Articles sounds like a great idea. Tomorrow, I have a lot of free time, so I could get a lot of those done.

@WJacobC: Well, there is a lot of pages on there, and I would say most are lacking, and there are countless more that can be created. some of the pages that come to my mind that need work are the Microbe Stage, Multicellular Stage, and Aware Stage pages. Each only gives about 2-3 sentence descriptions. I think there is a lot more potential for those pages to engage the reader into the concept and ideas for that stage.

@WilliamsTheJohn: Thanks, I'll upload that now.

EDIT: RodGame, would you want to do the Main Page?

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PostSubject: Re: Revamping the Wiki   Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:44 pm

NickTheNick wrote:
Well, there is a lot of pages on there, and I would say most are lacking, and there are countless more that can be created. some of the pages that come to my mind that need work are the Microbe Stage, Multicellular Stage, and Aware Stage pages. Each only gives about 2-3 sentence descriptions. I think there is a lot more potential for those pages to engage the reader into the concept and ideas for that stage.

I'll update some Microbe stage wiki pages tomorrow! I'll ket you know as soon as I'm done.

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PostSubject: Re: Revamping the Wiki   Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:48 pm

I meant specifically the pages explaining the stages, but those are fine too.

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PostSubject: Re: Revamping the Wiki   Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:04 pm

That's what I meant, but I'll work on whatever is needed. I'll poke around tonight and find some things to work on tomorrow.

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PostSubject: Re: Revamping the Wiki   Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:13 pm

The wiki definitely needs this. Excellent work, nick, and all of you.

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PostSubject: Re: Revamping the Wiki   Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:04 am

NickTheNick wrote:
Whoa, good to see so much feedback so soon!

So first of all, on the OP, I will keep track of all the pages that are being done by the different members. That way we can avoid people doing overlapping work. I will also post pages that are pointed out to be lacking. However, I won't put all the pages that need to be done, since that would be a lot. You guys need to go and read the wiki yourselves and decide what you want to contribute to.

@RodGame: I fully agree. It's nice to have you as my second-hand man on this.

@WilliamsTheJohn: Great to see you've done one so soon. However, I'm not sure as to whether you have made the changes that Tarpy pointed out. Can you post the final version for the wiki?

@Tarpy: FP page is yours. I might add some stuff later too.

@untrustedlife: Great, can't wait to see and try it out!

@Nimbal: Aha, "Skeleton" Articles sounds like a great idea. Tomorrow, I have a lot of free time, so I could get a lot of those done.

@WJacobC: Well, there is a lot of pages on there, and I would say most are lacking, and there are countless more that can be created. some of the pages that come to my mind that need work are the Microbe Stage, Multicellular Stage, and Aware Stage pages. Each only gives about 2-3 sentence descriptions. I think there is a lot more potential for those pages to engage the reader into the concept and ideas for that stage.

@WilliamsTheJohn: Thanks, I'll upload that now.

EDIT: RodGame, would you want to do the Main Page?

Of course!

Here is it:
Strateški mod

Strateški mod je jedan od Thrive-ovih tri moda igranja. U strateškom modu, igrač kontroliše više pojedinaca od jednom sa RTS- sličnim interfejsom. Kao svi modovi, strateškom modu se može pristupiti u svim fazama igre. Postaje važnija kasnije u igri, iako: igrač rijetko ima kontrolu nad više od nekoliko pojedinaca prije inteligencije, kasnije faze (počevši od društvene faze) uključuju rat između velikih grupa jedinica pojedinaca koje su bolje kontrolisane kao vojne jedinice.
Nekoliko pomoćnih mehanika koje su dodate da strateški mod bude bolji za igrača su:

Editor nacije, koji kontroliše čitavu igračevu naciju.
Društveni centri, koji omogućavaju kontrolu velike populacije bez nerviranja igrača.
Vojni centri, koji su korisni za rat i menadžment vojnih jedinica.
Odjeljenja, koja smanjuju mikromenadžment i čine taktiku realističnijom.

Kad igra kao inteligentna vrsta, igrač će takođe naći editor tehnologije i drvo istraživanja
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PostSubject: Re: Revamping the Wiki   Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:53 am

Yeah, I'm working on a new FP page in word, since making tables here is really, really hard. I'm going to post what I made in a few days.
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PostSubject: Re: Revamping the Wiki   Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:18 am

Nick please make word ,,unlocking'' in observer mode page bold.
You also need to fix this

Currently it is:
Observer Mode is one of the three gameplay modes in Thrive. In Observer Mode, the player controls the camera rather than any individuals in particular. Its made mostly for machinimas and and other gameplay showcasing videos.

Unlocking
Observer mode will be acessible after ascension and in sandbox mode.

You need to make it be:

Observer Mode is one of the three gameplay modes in Thrive. In Observer Mode, the player controls the camera rather than any individuals in particular. Its made mostly for machinimas and other gameplay showcasing videos.

Unlocking
Observer mode will be acessible after ascension and in sandbox mode.

I fixed one grammar error and made word ,,unlocking'' bold. Change it to it.


Also we need to add microbe stage final draft to microbe stage page
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PostSubject: Re: Revamping the Wiki   Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:54 am

Nice to see the wiki getting updated ! Congrats to everyone putting time on this.

I don't think we should spend time on translating the wiki. We should concentrate on english at first. Maybe it doesn't take too much time for you to translate it, but it would take time for NickTheNick to setup a nice way to have multiple-language on all page, ect...

Also, no offense intented at all, but having serbian all over this thread doesn't help to have easy access to the information. It almost looks like spam to the average user who doesn't speak serbian. When the revamping of the wiki will be at a mature stage, I would see anyone willing to translate having edit access to the wiki. This way, you could just make a new page in Serbian/French/German... and translate it directly.

I would ask to keep this thread as simple as possible. There is a lot of work to be done and we don't want to hit page 50 without having a lot of pages done.

To anyone willing to serisouly work on the wiki, I would suggest you to learn the wikidot's syntax to give NickTheNick a ready-to-add page with the right formatting. If he has to do all the formatting and linking himself, it adds a lot of work to someone who already has a lot of work. We don't want that.

Before writing a page, you should look at the wiki's syntax. Luckily, I found it for you! You should especially look at the part about Links to have a tightly linked wikipedia where it is easy to just ramble between different topic. If you want to have access to more information, here is the whole Documentation.

Lastly, I would suggest to anyone to do some test in the Sandbox. It is like a "empty" wiki where you can try to format a page. You can just use it to write pointless text and try to format the page.

You can also use it to format your whole text, and when you are happy with the text, copy-paste the code here so Nick can just copy-paste it straight to the wiki after review. Voila, you just removed a lot of work from Nick and did an amazing job at it

OP could be eventually edited with a design pattern like when to use different Level for header, when to change text size, ect... This would allow to have a coherent and nice wiki. I don't think this is primordial right now, but having everyone giving already-formatted text definitely is.
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Tarpy
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PostSubject: Re: Revamping the Wiki   Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:40 am

RodGame wrote:

Also, no offense intented at all, but having serbian all over this thread doesn't help to have easy access to the information. It almost looks like spam to the average user who doesn't speak serbian. When the revamping of the wiki will be at a mature stage, I would see anyone willing to translate having edit access to the wiki. This way, you could just make a new page in Serbian/French/German... and translate it directly.

No offense taken at all, in fact, I completely agree with you. I think at least 70% of the world population understands english to some extent. Translating texts into other languages is, at this stage, completely unnecessary, and even more pointless translating it into some relatively minor language such as, for example, Serbian, Turkish or even Indian. I would understand we were translating into say, French, German or Russian, although even that is highly unnecessary at this stage.

Function parts are coming along well, expect them tonight.
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WilliamstheJohn
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PostSubject: Re: Revamping the Wiki   Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:39 pm

Tarpy wrote:
RodGame wrote:

Also, no offense intented at all, but having serbian all over this thread doesn't help to have easy access to the information. It almost looks like spam to the average user who doesn't speak serbian. When the revamping of the wiki will be at a mature stage, I would see anyone willing to translate having edit access to the wiki. This way, you could just make a new page in Serbian/French/German... and translate it directly.

No offense taken at all, in fact, I completely agree with you. I think at least 70% of the world population understands english to some extent. Translating texts into other languages is, at this stage, completely unnecessary, and even more pointless translating it into some relatively minor language such as, for example, Serbian, Turkish or even Indian. I would understand we were translating into say, French, German or Russian, although even that is highly unnecessary at this stage.

Function parts are coming along well, expect them tonight.

QFT

I wanted to bee a little bit prepared to time when we will need translations, no offense taken.
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NickTheNick
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PostSubject: Re: Revamping the Wiki   Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:50 pm

@WilliamsTheJohn: Uploaded.

@Tarpy: I'm excited to see it!

@WilliamsTheJohn: Uploaded.

@RodGame: Good idea. That would help me out a lot. That is a very useful link.

Also, I will take up the challenge of updating the home page. Right now, it says very little. This is the perfect page to engage any visitors, and to give them a taste of all the concepts throughout the game. However, I need some ideas. What should I put on the main page?

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PostSubject: Re: Revamping the Wiki   Today at 11:51 pm

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