Thrive Game Development

Development of the evolution game Thrive.
 
HomeHome  PortalPortal  CalendarCalendar  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  MemberlistMemberlist  UsergroupsUsergroups  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Welcome new and returning members!
If you're new, read around a bit before you post: the odds are we've already covered your suggestion.
If you want to join the development team, sign up and tell us why.
ADMIN is pleased to note that this marquee has finally been updated.
ADMIN reminds you that the Devblog is REQUIRED reading.
Currently: The Microbe Stage GUI is under heavy development
Log in
Username:
Password:
Log in automatically: 
:: I forgot my password
Quick Links
Website
/r/thrive
GitHub
FAQs
Wiki
New Posts
Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
Statistics
We have 1675 registered users
The newest registered user is dejo123

Our users have posted a total of 30851 messages in 1411 subjects
Who is online?
In total there are 2 users online :: 0 Registered, 0 Hidden and 2 Guests :: 1 Bot

None

Most users ever online was 443 on Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:41 pm
Latest topics
» THIS FORUM IS NOW OBSOLETE
by NickTheNick Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:26 pm

» To all the people who come here looking for thrive.
by NickTheNick Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:22 pm

» Build Error Code::Blocks / CMake
by crovea Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:28 pm

» Hello! I can translate in japanese
by tjwhale Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:23 pm

» On Leave (Offline thread)
by NickTheNick Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:20 am

» Devblog #14: A Brave New Forum
by NickTheNick Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:49 am

» Application for Programmer
by crovea Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:14 am

» Re-Reapplication
by The Creator Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:57 pm

» Application (programming)
by crovea Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:00 am

» Achieving Sapience
by MitochondriaBox Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:03 pm

» Microbe Stage GDD
by tjwhale Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:44 pm

» Application for Programmer/ Theorist
by tjwhale Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:56 am

» Application for a 3D Modeler.
by Kaiju4u Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:16 am

» Translator to Serbian here
by Simeartherist Sun Jun 07, 2015 6:36 am

» Presentation
by Othithu Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:38 am

» Application of Sorts
by crovea Sun May 31, 2015 5:06 pm

» want to contribute
by Renzope Sun May 31, 2015 12:58 pm

» Music List Thread (Post New Themes Here)
by Oliveriver Thu May 28, 2015 1:06 pm

» Application: English-Spanish translator
by Renzope Tue May 26, 2015 1:53 pm

» Want to be promoter or project manager
by TheBudderBros Sun May 24, 2015 9:00 pm


Share | 
 

 The Concept of Relations (Drawing Inside!)

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
DesertBeagle
Newcomer


Posts : 14
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-05-25
Location : afs

PostSubject: The Concept of Relations (Drawing Inside!)   Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:46 pm

I always liked the concept of Spore's Enemy-Ally relation system, but it wasn't very realistic. Say you had an incredible amount of more power over the opposing nation and you attack them. They go angry and attempt to attack your nation, instead of growing scared and avoiding attacks with your nation. That's what my idea is, 3 types of relation ships, demonstrated here:

It's an equilateral triangle containing another equilateral triangle. (I KNOW I ACCIDENTALLY SPELLED NEUTRAL WRONG, OKAY?!?)
When the mouse is hovered over: Something like this might show:

Where green is fear, red is bad relation points, and blue is good relation points.
This would make the nation and/or the tribe/space stage so much more interesting in my opinion, generating many different relations with other nations/empires

Each vertex of the outer triangle represents 100 points in relation. So if your relation is all the way back in the red corner, it'd be 100+ red points, and you'd be at some serious war with the opposing enemy.
Maybe if you had a lot of fear points, but also a lot of enemy points, it'd be in the far right neutral corner and the relation would be so:
Their nation is too much of a threat, but our nation isn't strong enough to fight them yet!
And so on.
Please share your opinion and comment below!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
NickTheNick
Overall Team Co-Lead


Posts : 2312
Reputation : 175
Join date : 2012-07-22
Age : 20
Location : Canada

PostSubject: Re: The Concept of Relations (Drawing Inside!)   Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:55 pm

Very good work taking such initiative to help out with the Strategy Mode! However, make sure to ask around first on relevant topics or the Misc. thread before posting a new thread, since much of this is already covered in the current concept.

Relations will be handled on a linear scale from -100 to 100. I think it is misleading to label the ends "Ally" and "Enemy" since you can have bad relations with a nation and not be at war, or good relations with a nation you are at war with. Your concept for fear is handled by Influence, which does not affect your relations but affects your effectiveness in negotiating in diplomatic situations. Strong militaries, strong economies, lots of magnificent buildings, etc. all increase your influence over other nations. This could be used to help threaten and subjugate them without war.

Furthermore, I presume it would be easy enough to add in AI that determine the odds of the battle and decide whether to fight or retreat. Most RTS games already have that, Spore was just the odd one out.

_________________
Look at how far we've come when people thought we'd get nowhere. Imagine how far we can go if we try to get somewhere.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
DesertBeagle
Newcomer


Posts : 14
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-05-25
Location : afs

PostSubject: Re: The Concept of Relations (Drawing Inside!)   Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:02 pm

NickTheNick wrote:
Relations will be handled on a linear scale from -100 to 100. I think it is misleading to label the ends "Ally" and "Enemy" since you can have bad relations with a nation and not be at war, or good relations with a nation you are at war with. Your concept for fear is handled by Influence, which does not affect your relations but affects your effectiveness in negotiating in diplomatic situations. Strong militaries, strong economies, lots of magnificent buildings, etc. all increase your influence over other nations. This could be used to help threaten and subjugate them without war.

Furthermore, I presume it would be easy enough to add in AI that determine the odds of the battle and decide whether to fight or retreat. Most RTS games already have that, Spore was just the odd one out.
Well yeah, being in the red or blue zone doesn't mean you'd be an ally or at war with the opposing nation, I guess it'd just mean they'd be negative/positive towards you, but if it was just a simple +/- system, how would there be fear in-between 2 nations?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
NickTheNick
Overall Team Co-Lead


Posts : 2312
Reputation : 175
Join date : 2012-07-22
Age : 20
Location : Canada

PostSubject: Re: The Concept of Relations (Drawing Inside!)   Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:20 pm

Fear just makes certain propositions you make more likely for them to accept. All RTS AI, or at least the good ones, also already have a built in system of gauging your strength and deciding whether to attack you or not, whether to retreat or not, etc. For example, in Civilization V, there is no numerical value for the "Fear" of another Civ, but it is quite well established that by keeping your troops on a border with a possibly hostile Civ, or building up more troops, you can deter or delay their attacks, because they recognize your military strength. I think we could expand this to the economy, religion, technology, and other fields as well, to make it more interesting.

_________________
Look at how far we've come when people thought we'd get nowhere. Imagine how far we can go if we try to get somewhere.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Im a Peanut
Newcomer


Posts : 9
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-04-17
Age : 16
Location : Brazil-Earth

PostSubject: Re: The Concept of Relations (Drawing Inside!)   Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:14 pm

That's a good idea, and i got a sugestion: when you "examine" a nation, you see a triangle like this with a little circle, this circle starts in the middle of the triangle, but depending of what did you do to that nation, the circle will move to green, blue or red, or come back to the center ( if you attack them, and later, help them, the circle will come back to the center). It's like on Spore, when you see the terraforming thing of a planet. Tell me what do you think about this
Back to top Go down
View user profile
NickTheNick
Overall Team Co-Lead


Posts : 2312
Reputation : 175
Join date : 2012-07-22
Age : 20
Location : Canada

PostSubject: Re: The Concept of Relations (Drawing Inside!)   Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:44 pm

I'm think that was DesertBeagle's original suggestion.

Such a chart is interesting, but like I said, can not accurately depict international relations. Fear is not something that can be this easily quantified.

_________________
Look at how far we've come when people thought we'd get nowhere. Imagine how far we can go if we try to get somewhere.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
DesertBeagle
Newcomer


Posts : 14
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-05-25
Location : afs

PostSubject: Re: The Concept of Relations (Drawing Inside!)   Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:28 pm

Im a Peanut wrote:
That's a good idea, and i got a sugestion: when you "examine" a nation, you see a triangle like this with a little circle, this circle starts in the middle of the triangle, but depending of what did you do to that nation, the circle will move to green, blue or red, or come back to the center ( if you attack them, and later, help them, the circle will come back to the center). It's like on Spore, when you see the terraforming thing of a planet. Tell me what do you think about this
That's actually where I got the idea from, Spore's TerraScore circle. Then I just thought of a different shape and how it would work.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
WilliamstheJohn
Regular


Posts : 409
Reputation : 10
Join date : 2012-12-26
Age : 23
Location : Third Rock from Sol

PostSubject: Re: The Concept of Relations (Drawing Inside!)   Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:48 am

Interesting. I like idea, but might need some updates.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Alex J G
Newcomer


Posts : 13
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2014-03-20
Age : 25
Location : London

PostSubject: Re: The Concept of Relations (Drawing Inside!)   Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:30 pm

If I might make a suggestion, unless this thread is dead, instead of having fear countries can have a threat level.

The base threat level of a country, which serves as the  is based on their military capabilities. For example 1 unit of infantry = 1 base threat, 1 nuke = 100 base threat, and improvements in military technology, tactics and training might increase it by a percentage.

Additional modifiers that calculate the relative threat of country A to country B can be added based on historical and geographic factors that increase or decrease the threat that one country is to another. For example if country A has a military force equal to 50% of country B's entire military near B's border then that adds +50% threat, if Country A defeats a regional military power then that adds +300% threat for 20 years which decreases over time, if country B has access to some resources that country A uses then that adds +10% to A's threat towards B, if A has a non-aggression treaty with B then that lowers the threat by -500% until the treaty expires.

Factors that affect relative threat level could include:

Same/different religion
Trade relationship
Time since attacking a country in the region
Time since attacking anyone
Contested territory
Alliances with other countries
Naval power (if overseas)

When the computer is considering attacking a country it will also take into account the threat level of all the countries allied to the country it's planning to attack, balanced again the combined base threat of its allies.

In terms of balancing military power each country will try to ensure that its base threat is balanced against the total threat of other countries based on their relations. If A has +100 relations with B then they will be unconcerned with balancing threat, if they are neutral then they will try to ensure that they have +10% higher threat, and if they are at -100 then they will aim for +50% threat. If done correctly this should lead to both the possibility of arms races and peaceful coexistence.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
NickTheNick
Overall Team Co-Lead


Posts : 2312
Reputation : 175
Join date : 2012-07-22
Age : 20
Location : Canada

PostSubject: Re: The Concept of Relations (Drawing Inside!)   Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:37 pm

When we get to designing the AI for this stage, we will definitely need to get to quantifying the effect of game entities on international relations. However, for now I don't think we are ready for it, cause we have no AI whatsoever, and we are still laying the foundations for the stage itself.

_________________
Look at how far we've come when people thought we'd get nowhere. Imagine how far we can go if we try to get somewhere.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: The Concept of Relations (Drawing Inside!)   Today at 11:48 pm

Back to top Go down
 
The Concept of Relations (Drawing Inside!)
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Thrive Game Development :: General :: Forum Support and Suggestions :: Game Suggestions-
Jump to: