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 Miscellaneous Bugs And Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

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NarotizaSquared
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PostSubject: Self Composing Music   Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:43 pm

So, I had a thought: What if the music in Thrive composed itself?

When I was young, there was a game I played called Myst III, Exile that had something similar. There was a looping "Pad" that played usually throughout the entire song, and random sounds were added in at random times, so the music would always be different. So, I was thinking, what if Thrive did this?

The notes/sounds would be added in as stuff happens, like maybe when you switch between biomes, the music slowly adjusts until it changes into the other biome's theme, (or even better, biome B's theme is simply a variant of biome A's theme) or when a predator approaches, the melody playing becomes a bit darker, then morphs into the "you're being hunted" theme.

I am aware that this could make all the effort that went into composing the music we have now would go to waste, unless, of course, it is only for a few themes. It is probably a silly idea, but hopefully it is considered, and maybe even worked into the game somehow.
Thank you for taking your time to read this suggestion.

Sincerely, Narotiza²

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PostSubject: Re: Miscellaneous Bugs And Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread   Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:26 am

NarotizaSquared wrote:
So, I had a thought: What if the music in Thrive composed itself?
-snip-

I don't think we'd want to do that for all the music, maybe just for overworld segments?

That said, it would be cool to do what they did for certain segments. It wouldn't actually call for scrapping any existing music either; if we were to just do it for the overworld themes, we could take part of the song and use it as the base "pad," and then use remaining parts of the song to play over that ("mldy" files I think?) It would create some variety without calling for a whole lot more work.
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PostSubject: Re: Miscellaneous Bugs And Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread   Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:26 am

Just to let you guys know, to anyone who made a new thread and now finds it in here, it is because it was merged with this thread. Please read the READ BEFORE POSTING THREAD, because it contains useful info on the forum conventions, and one is not to start new threads for minor questions or suggestions.

MirrorMonkey2 wrote:
We plan to release our phases yearly, so microbe stage should be pretty much completed at the end of the year i think. But I'm not sure if this time schedule is up to date or if we already have another. However, for a project like Thrive, the future is very difficult to predict. Maybe we'll lose all our programmers, or maybe Thrive will be discovered by the masses in a few months or years. Projects like this are like snowballs rolling down a hill, the bigger they get, the more likely they become to get even bigger. But as said, the future is difficult to predict.

One stage per year? Where did that come from? The only goal was to get a release of the Microbe Stage out by the end of the year, which happened (which means the Microbe Stage Progress Report needs to be updated btw), but future stages have not been predicted to be released year by year. Right now there are no fixed milestones we are working towards.

NarotizaSquared wrote:
So, I had a thought: What if the music in Thrive composed itself?

When I was young, there was a game I played called Myst III, Exile that had something similar. There was a looping "Pad" that played usually throughout the entire song, and random sounds were added in at random times, so the music would always be different. So, I was thinking, what if Thrive did this?

The notes/sounds would be added in as stuff happens, like maybe when you switch between biomes, the music slowly adjusts until it changes into the other biome's theme, (or even better, biome B's theme is simply a variant of biome A's theme) or when a predator approaches, the melody playing becomes a bit darker, then morphs into the "you're being hunted" theme.

I am aware that this could make all the effort that went into composing the music we have now would go to waste, unless, of course, it is only for a few themes. It is probably a silly idea, but hopefully it is considered, and maybe even worked into the game somehow.
Thank you for taking your time to read this suggestion.

Sincerely, Narotiza²

If procedural music actually produces something half decent and appropriate for the situation, then I feel it's fine to look into it, but for now we really don't need to get into the math/music behind that when we have composers who are willing and able to compose tracks for the game.

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PostSubject: Re: Miscellaneous Bugs And Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread   Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:01 pm

NarotizaSquared wrote:
So, I had a thought: What if the music in Thrive composed itself?

I believe this has been mentioned and refuted/put on hold at least twice already somewhere on the forums (I'll try and find the actual threads for you in a minute). Spore did something along the lines you're suggesting, though mostly in the editors, where new parts would herald new musical hooks or motifs over the top of what was already playing. While the concept of this seems good, in actual fact all the music sounded far too generic - in an effort to make sure every motif could play over the top of every other without being dissonant, they were all simplified far too much, leading to a situation where none of the motifs actually stood out (save for the 'ding' sound immediately after the part is added). Even so, I'm still fond of the idea, though the logistics of doing it are difficult. For now, I agree that we shouldn't think about it too hard. The microbe stage is a simple place, where few scenario variants will arise, so for that stage at least the idea doesn't hold up. For later stages it might work better, but as with a lot of things suggested for Thrive, we'll consider that in more detail once we get to a point where we can afford to.

EDIT: I've only found one thread on the subject, but there are definitely more discussions nestled in the Misc thread somewhere.
http://thrivegame.canadaboard.net/t403-discussion-for-dynamic-music

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PostSubject: TEMPORARY THREAD   Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:42 pm

What do you exactly mean by "plant"? Because in a game where you can put chloroplasts in your to-be-sentient species, what if the soil is not colonized by plants but by say fungi or those flesh veins things from the war of worlds?
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PostSubject: Re: Miscellaneous Bugs And Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread   Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:12 am

Please post questions like this on here:

http://thrivegame.canadaboard.net/t1226p930-miscellaneous-bugs-and-questions-that-don-t-deserve-their-own-thread-thread#29179

I don't think we already have made a system that seperates plants from other organisms. Everything past the microbe stage isn't set in stone and might change. But I think it will have triggers like photosynthesis, no muscles, no bones etc.
But as said, please ask questions like this in the miscellaneous-bugs-and-questions-that-don-t-deserve-their-own-thread-thread.
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PostSubject: Re: Miscellaneous Bugs And Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread   Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:47 am

His post was actually originally on a different thread that was not very appropriate, and you caught it on its own thread as I was moving it to here.

On the topic, the distinction between animal, plant, fungus, or whatever kingdom an organism belongs to will have to be made in the late microbe/early multicellular stage of the game. However, there is not really a system in place to determine this, as the first releases will only have animals as playable and plants just as decorative/interactable entities.

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PostSubject: Re: Miscellaneous Bugs And Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread   Fri Jan 10, 2014 2:18 pm

That post reminds me about that 2002 show called The Future is Wild were in one segment titled The Tentacled Forest their these trees that catch flying animals with sticky um.... tentacles and pull them into the tree and eat them. If you want to see for yourself go to youtube and when you watch the segment skip to 6:03 it's bizarre. So I think playable plants isn't unrealistic that show is base off of scientific evolutionary theory and their are predatorial plants that eat insects. It would require different game mechanics and would be unique gameplay that no other game would have. So not only would your creature have to worry about other creatures it would also have to worry about certain plants sounds challenging and fun to me. They could start off as AI only and later added as playable.
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PostSubject: Re: Miscellaneous Bugs And Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread   Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:27 pm

I was wrong previously that thing was mold. What I was actually talking about was something called a deathbottle on that show were it has clear tentacles hanging out from it and when something flys into it it drags it into the tree. Anyways plants can be predators too.
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PostSubject: Re: Miscellaneous Bugs And Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread   Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:33 pm

This has been brought up before, I think, and while it is not out of the question to implement something like that, we're just too far away from it at the moment. Plant gameplay is planned as a feature I believe.
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PostSubject: Re: Miscellaneous Bugs And Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread   Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:53 pm

Gyrukilo wrote:
That post reminds me about that 2002 show called The Future is Wild were in one segment titled The Tentacled Forest their these trees that catch flying animals with sticky um.... tentacles and pull them into the tree and eat them. If you want to see for yourself go to youtube and when you watch the segment skip to 6:03 it's bizarre. So I think playable plants isn't unrealistic that show is base off of scientific evolutionary theory and their are predatorial plants that eat insects. It  would require different game mechanics and would be unique gameplay that no other game would have. So not only would your creature have to worry about other creatures it would also have to worry about certain plants sounds challenging and fun to me. They could start off as AI only and later added as playable.

Please read the READ BEFORE POSTING thread before posting, as the name entails, because in the FAQ's it's already addressed that plant gameplay is one of the goals of the game.

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PostSubject: Re: Miscellaneous Bugs And Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread   Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:28 am

I can't believe I didn't see that thread..... (NOOB FACE PALM) thanks Nick I'll look at that before I ask a question.
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PostSubject: Re: Miscellaneous Bugs And Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread   Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:49 pm

How about a "heaven" that is not present in gameplay and can be only accessed via the main menu? It would show all of your organisms that went extinct, so you could never forget them.
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PostSubject: Re: Miscellaneous Bugs And Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread   Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:33 pm

I think that is what the supposed Thrivepedia is about.
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PostSubject: Re: Miscellaneous Bugs And Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread   Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:33 pm

Okay
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PostSubject: Re: Miscellaneous Bugs And Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread   Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:27 pm

As a fiew guys who discovered the Thrive project, I was really interrested to give some ideas and suggestions.
I use to study in the video game industries and I am in the right track.
So there is some technical and basic ideas. I already check the forum and the official Thrive site, so I know most of the idea list. Maybe some ideas were already suggested, but I hope you forgive me in this case.

Technical and model ideas
-The breathing system in an organism is very important, but not every animal breath from the nose, month (I don't talk about aquatic animals). The idea is to allowed to add nostrils where we want. For example, I could make a Tyrex-like creature with six nostrils on his back. Also, it would be nice to have the possibility to make the smell of sens in a other part of the body, distant from the breathing system.
-Maximum angle for articulation: the main problem in Spore that make me rage sometimes was the collision problem, most of the time with the limbs. But this isn't the main point of this suggestion. A maximum angle option could help to make the body more rigid where it should be and more wavelike with other part, like the tail end.
-Reproduction option: I don't know how you guys will make this option happened more natural, but I don't know if you thought about a option (it could be a reward of evolution) that change reproductive aspect of birth. The player could choose if he/she wants the creature to lay egg (fish-like, Shark-like, Amphibian-like, etc), gestation (placenta of a mother, or even marsupial-like with a pocket) and INFECTION (like in the Alien serie, in which there is a egg (or gestation first from a mother), then a creature that doesn't look like the parent and the little creature infecte a other creature (impregnated or the creature get inside to evolve).
-Young stage: the caste option look awesome. I don't know if this is already on the list, but in link with the precedent idea, it should be a option to modified the appearance of the young. Why? Because if a software is use for change the young, some easthetic aspect could be disapointing... By give this charge to the player, the player will appreciate is little cute baby, because he/she will feel more like the real parent! (If you already got this idea, that's cool!)
-NOISE AND VOCALS. A basic database of many animal vocals and a mixer could allow the player to personnalize the sing of his creature.

One last aspect to think about evolution. As the player creates animal and make them evolve, some animals which he/she may encounter could be animals which have a common ancestor, thus a animal created some time ago. «That creature looks like my grandfather...», they say.

This is my first post and box of ideas. I speak french first, so forgive me for mistakes.
You are the best, guys!
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PostSubject: Re: Miscellaneous Bugs And Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread   Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:49 pm

I like the above idea. Also, if "Self composing music" was added to the game, it should probably be done for overworld music and stuff like one of you said.

Also, (sorry for going a bit off topic) Amymist... you mentioned "mldy files." Do you know about this game too?
A quote from a Myst III soundtrack vid's description.

"Here's how the music is "composed". Usually, a file denoted as the "pad" loops indefinitely (though in some cases two different pad files are used). On top of that plays a sequence of "mldy" files, usually timed to harmonize with the pad (sometimes another label such as "pipe" is used). Various effects such as "stinger", "bells", "drum", and "squeal" chime in randomly throughout. Some examples of filenames are LI_THEME_pad2.wav, EN_M3_noise4.wav, and MA_M2_mldy5.mp3."
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PostSubject: Re: Miscellaneous Bugs And Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread   Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:53 am

Narstak wrote:
As a fiew guys who discovered the Thrive project, I was really interrested to give some ideas and suggestions.
I use to study in the video game industries and I am in the right track.
So there is some technical and basic ideas. I already check the forum and the official Thrive site, so I know most of the idea list. Maybe some ideas were already suggested, but I hope you forgive me in this case.

Technical and model ideas
-The breathing system in an organism is very important, but not every animal breath from the nose, month (I don't talk about aquatic animals). The idea is to allowed to add nostrils where we want. For example, I could make a Tyrex-like creature with six nostrils on his back. Also, it would be nice to have the possibility to make the smell of sens in a other part of the body, distant from the breathing system.
-Maximum angle for articulation: the main problem in Spore that make me rage sometimes was the collision problem, most of the time with the limbs. But this isn't the main point of this suggestion. A maximum angle option could help to make the body more rigid where it should be and more wavelike with other part, like the tail end.
-Reproduction option: I don't know how you guys will make this option happened more natural, but I don't know if you thought about a option (it could be a reward of evolution) that change reproductive aspect of birth. The player could choose if he/she wants the creature to lay egg (fish-like, Shark-like, Amphibian-like, etc), gestation (placenta of a mother, or even marsupial-like with a pocket) and INFECTION (like in the Alien serie, in which there is a egg (or gestation first from a mother), then a creature that doesn't look like the parent and the little creature infecte a other creature (impregnated or the creature get inside to evolve).
-Young stage: the caste option look awesome. I don't know if this is already on the list, but in link with the precedent idea, it should be a option to modified the appearance of the young. Why? Because if a software is use for change the young, some easthetic aspect could be disapointing... By give this charge to the player, the player will appreciate is little cute baby, because he/she will feel more like the real parent! (If you already got this idea, that's cool!)
-NOISE AND VOCALS. A basic database of many animal vocals and a mixer could allow the player to personnalize the sing of his creature.

One last aspect to think about evolution. As the player creates animal and make them evolve, some animals which he/she may encounter could be animals which have a common ancestor, thus a animal created some time ago. «That creature looks like my grandfather...», they say.

This is my first post and box of ideas. I speak french first, so forgive me for mistakes.
You are the best, guys!

You will be able to place a respiratory system, but you will not be able to separately place a sense of smell, because an organism's sense of smell will not have a location. It will either exist or not exist, in different strengths.
Obviously we will do whatever we can to make more realistically looking and performing organisms.
This would be based off of the design of the organism from the Organism Editor. It appears to me you have not read on that. If you haven't please do so here, because it is required reading.
Ontogenesis has been put on hold until anyone can come up with a reasonable and well explained of how it would work, because coding it into the game would actually be quite difficult.
Yes, there will be a quasi-realistic means by which to assign noises to organisms, as well as that of the player.

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PostSubject: Re: Miscellaneous Bugs And Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread   Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:02 am

I have a "bug." It's not really a bug, but more of a design flaw.

When I search with Topics checked, I get topics that have the word that I searched. So for instace, I search for Miscellaneous and would probably get this thread and some others.

Now this is where I have the problem. When I search with Posts checked, it doesn't search for words inside posts themselves, but basically does the same thing as when I search with Inside and Topics checked, except this time it shows posts that are posted in the topic. Random posts that don't have anything to do with your search.

I want this to be fixed so searching can be easier and I can be able to find if my question has been answered.
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PostSubject: Re: Miscellaneous Bugs And Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread   Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:48 pm

That's controlled by Forumotion and not us. We have no control over fixing that whatsoever.

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PostSubject: Re: Miscellaneous Bugs And Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread   Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:17 pm

Oh. Great.
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PostSubject: Re: Miscellaneous Bugs And Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread   Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:24 pm

Yes, that is unfortunate, but if a question gets asked enough it could be added to the FAQ on the READ BEFORE POSTING thread. Otherwise, the wiki needs to start being the depot for final concept.

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PostSubject: Re: Miscellaneous Bugs And Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread   Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:29 pm

NarotizaSquared wrote:

Also, (sorry for going a bit off topic) Amymist... you mentioned "mldy files." Do you know about this game too?
A quote from a Myst III soundtrack vid's description.

I've never played it, but I had looked up the music system after someone mentioned it to me a while ago.

WJacobC wrote:
That's controlled by Forumotion and not us. We have no control over fixing that whatsoever.

Man, why is it every forum software I know of has a search function that is terrible in some way.
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PostSubject: Re: Miscellaneous Bugs And Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread   Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:59 pm

Will there be some sort of timeline for your species like in Spore?
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PostSubject: Re: Miscellaneous Bugs And Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread   Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:57 pm

Halowraith1 wrote:
Will there be some sort of timeline for your species like in Spore?
Like a way to look back over the history of your creature's evolution? I would assume so, it'd be really nice to be able to see that. (Also it'd be good to see at the end of a run, like in the Civiliation games how they show you screens with various statistics at the end of each game.)
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