Thrive Game Development

Development of the evolution game Thrive.
 
HomeHome  PortalPortal  CalendarCalendar  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  MemberlistMemberlist  UsergroupsUsergroups  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Welcome new and returning members!
If you're new, read around a bit before you post: the odds are we've already covered your suggestion.
If you want to join the development team, sign up and tell us why.
ADMIN is pleased to note that this marquee has finally been updated.
ADMIN reminds you that the Devblog is REQUIRED reading.
Currently: The Microbe Stage GUI is under heavy development
Log in
Username:
Password:
Log in automatically: 
:: I forgot my password
Quick Links
Website
/r/thrive
GitHub
FAQs
Wiki
New Posts
Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
Statistics
We have 1675 registered users
The newest registered user is dejo123

Our users have posted a total of 30851 messages in 1411 subjects
Who is online?
In total there are 4 users online :: 0 Registered, 0 Hidden and 4 Guests

None

Most users ever online was 443 on Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:41 pm
Latest topics
» THIS FORUM IS NOW OBSOLETE
by NickTheNick Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:26 pm

» To all the people who come here looking for thrive.
by NickTheNick Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:22 pm

» Build Error Code::Blocks / CMake
by crovea Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:28 pm

» Hello! I can translate in japanese
by tjwhale Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:23 pm

» On Leave (Offline thread)
by NickTheNick Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:20 am

» Devblog #14: A Brave New Forum
by NickTheNick Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:49 am

» Application for Programmer
by crovea Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:14 am

» Re-Reapplication
by The Creator Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:57 pm

» Application (programming)
by crovea Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:00 am

» Achieving Sapience
by MitochondriaBox Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:03 pm

» Microbe Stage GDD
by tjwhale Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:44 pm

» Application for Programmer/ Theorist
by tjwhale Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:56 am

» Application for a 3D Modeler.
by Kaiju4u Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:16 am

» Translator to Serbian here
by Simeartherist Sun Jun 07, 2015 6:36 am

» Presentation
by Othithu Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:38 am

» Application of Sorts
by crovea Sun May 31, 2015 5:06 pm

» want to contribute
by Renzope Sun May 31, 2015 12:58 pm

» Music List Thread (Post New Themes Here)
by Oliveriver Thu May 28, 2015 1:06 pm

» Application: English-Spanish translator
by Renzope Tue May 26, 2015 1:53 pm

» Want to be promoter or project manager
by TheBudderBros Sun May 24, 2015 9:00 pm


Share | 
 

 Confederations, Integrated Empires, Vassilisation (Applies to Industrial to Space)

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
Inca
Regular


Posts : 250
Reputation : 10
Join date : 2013-07-03
Age : 22
Location : England

PostSubject: Confederations, Integrated Empires, Vassilisation (Applies to Industrial to Space)   Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:17 pm

Firstly, this could apply to anywhere from industrial or even society onwards, but I feel would mainly come into play in the space stage.

I've been thinking about this sort of thing a lot and have talked about it in a few different places and I've seen a few other people mention it, so I feel we should discuss it one place. Also discussion about these later stages should not be at the expense of the microbe stage which is our focus.

------------------

Heres what I have so far.

Confederations, Integrated Empires, and Protectorates can all be considered effectively the same thing for our purposes. There will be a lead nation/tribe/country/nation and protectorate nations that are ruled by the lead nation known as the overlord nation. Each nation can have any number of protectorates and protectorates can have protectorates of their own. This is different to alliances.

Effects of being a protectorate:
50% of revenue go to overlord
Increase chance of spread of religion
Improve relations
Nations are allied
Spread of research
Can be called to war by overlord
Vassal may declare war on overlord
Nations who have poor relations with overlord have lower relations with the overlord's vassals.

How a nation may become a protectorate:
Through war, the victor may force the nation into becoming a protectorate as a peace term.
Peacefully, the overlord may ask the subject to become a protectorate (if prerequisites are met)
Peacefully, Subject may ask to become a protectorate.

Prerequisite of peaceful protectoration (overlord to protectorate):
Max/ Very good relations
Must be allies
Tolerant of each others religions
Minor nation should be relatively smaller (by some ratio)

Prerequisite of military protectoration (overlord to protectorate):
Total victory or maybe 80%+

Protectoration can end by:
Overlord can release protectorate
Overlord can be forced to release protectoratel as a part of peace negotiations
Protectorate can declare independence (and gain it through victory in war). If the protectorate looses it cannot declare independence again for a number of years (10) and tax could increase

----------

So what do you think? Additions changes, whatever, discuss.


Last edited by Inca on Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:02 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://soundcloud.com/inca_uk
Immortal_Dragon
Regular


Posts : 425
Reputation : 19
Join date : 2013-06-18
Age : 23
Location : Throne of the Immortal Dragon

PostSubject: Re: Confederations, Integrated Empires, Vassilisation (Applies to Industrial to Space)   Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:01 pm

There should be a bit of a relations stigma to being vassilised as well, such as nations that don't like the overlord should have a relations penalty to the vassal as long as they are a vassal, it makes sense to me anyway.

If Integrated Empires means what I think it means, then didn't Nick clear that up on the misc. thread? Two species can't be the same nation, the player's species is the species for the nation. If this is not where you are going with this please correct me.

In terms of the prerequisites, I'm guessing all three of these would be similar if not the same. But I don't think religion should play into these prerequisites, as far as my opinion goes, but if there is a good reason it should, I'm all ears.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Inca
Regular


Posts : 250
Reputation : 10
Join date : 2013-07-03
Age : 22
Location : England

PostSubject: Re: Confederations, Integrated Empires, Vassilisation (Applies to Industrial to Space)   Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:39 pm

Yeah that makes sense, I'll add that in.

No this is not two species in one nation. The two nations still exist as separate entities, think of it as a few steps more than an alliance. The vassilisation can end and then the two nations can go their separate ways.

Hmm, I suppose religion wouldn't really make that much of a difference, I was just thinking if the nations have conflicting views, they might not be willing to team up in this way.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://soundcloud.com/inca_uk
Immortal_Dragon
Regular


Posts : 425
Reputation : 19
Join date : 2013-06-18
Age : 23
Location : Throne of the Immortal Dragon

PostSubject: Re: Confederations, Integrated Empires, Vassilisation (Applies to Industrial to Space)   Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:59 pm

Ok, so Integrated Empires still have their own separate governments for each, but they have to be in agreement for alliances and wars? Or maybe some kind of joint-government?

And Confederations, could you please elaborate?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Inca
Regular


Posts : 250
Reputation : 10
Join date : 2013-07-03
Age : 22
Location : England

PostSubject: Re: Confederations, Integrated Empires, Vassilisation (Applies to Industrial to Space)   Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:08 pm

Yeah pretty much. They are still separate governments and are still governed by their own set of AI.

Well I don't have anything different for the way confederations & integrated empires are set up. I'm currently considering them as the umbrella term for all the nations which may be linked through a tree of vassals?
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://soundcloud.com/inca_uk
NickTheNick
Overall Team Co-Lead


Posts : 2312
Reputation : 175
Join date : 2012-07-22
Age : 20
Location : Canada

PostSubject: Re: Confederations, Integrated Empires, Vassilisation (Applies to Industrial to Space)   Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:22 pm

Looks good so far. I wouldn't get in too much depth for the different alliance structures though. I think the vassal idea sounds great, and would fit in well with the current concept.

_________________
Look at how far we've come when people thought we'd get nowhere. Imagine how far we can go if we try to get somewhere.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
WilliamstheJohn
Regular


Posts : 409
Reputation : 10
Join date : 2012-12-26
Age : 23
Location : Third Rock from Sol

PostSubject: Re: Confederations, Integrated Empires, Vassilisation (Applies to Industrial to Space)   Thu Aug 01, 2013 6:09 am

Thats great idea.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Tarpy
Strategy Team Lead


Posts : 337
Reputation : 23
Join date : 2013-03-08
Location : Here

PostSubject: Re: Confederations, Integrated Empires, Vassilisation (Applies to Industrial to Space)   Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:13 am

I agree with everything Inca said, I would only suggest a slight difference in naming.

Since vassal is a very narrow term, and is only used in feudalism, while players will have many different types of government, maybe we should call it something like "satellite state" so that the computer doesn't have to detect if the player has a system similar to feudalism, or have republics with vassals.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Immortal_Dragon
Regular


Posts : 425
Reputation : 19
Join date : 2013-06-18
Age : 23
Location : Throne of the Immortal Dragon

PostSubject: Re: Confederations, Integrated Empires, Vassilisation (Applies to Industrial to Space)   Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:57 pm

Or maybe the name could be a protectorate, like in Empire Total War?

As far as I'm concerned, satellite state would work just as well as protectorate, as they are both a source of income for the overlord nation/empire/etc.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Inca
Regular


Posts : 250
Reputation : 10
Join date : 2013-07-03
Age : 22
Location : England

PostSubject: Re: Confederations, Integrated Empires, Vassilisation (Applies to Industrial to Space)   Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:38 am

I like the name Protectorate.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://soundcloud.com/inca_uk
MitochondriaBox
Learner


Posts : 188
Reputation : 7
Join date : 2013-01-29
Age : 17
Location : Houston, Texas

PostSubject: Re: Confederations, Integrated Empires, Vassilisation (Applies to Industrial to Space)   Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:55 am

I'm kind of wondering how the computer would use this function diplomatically. I know that, for the AI, these satellite states react to the offer to join based on relations, but what if the nation given the offer is really powerful, and suddenly a weak ally wants to become a protectorate state? Logically, the potential satellite state won't just accept, because it is a larger and stronger nation. I think we should have a potential satellite state's decision be based not on just relationship, but also statistics of both nations as well as circumstances, including the current leaders and enemies.

Incidentally, what will the AI be playing for? Is it playing for a set condition (Civilization AI plays to win), or does it just play to survive? I'm thinking the second, since there isn't exactly a victory condition for any stage apart from going to the next stage, and, in reality, becoming a multicellular organism is less a win condition than a prerequisite to reaching the next stage, which is mostly what Thrive is about.

Hold on a second, doesn't every stage involve the AI making decisions to survive? In Microbe, it uses organelles to survive, and doesn't give a hoot about the multicellular stage. In Multicellular, it still just wants to survive, and it evolves its structure to become more complex if it means survival. So on and so forth, until Society and Industrial, where the AI wants to preserve its nation, which is why it wants to expand, to cover more ground and prevent a housing crisis; either give its people freedom so that the nation doesn't collapse, or stockpile power to become too strong for the people to rise up and defeat; even preserve its allies if they are useful enough, if we don't have a morality function. And that brings us to the vassalage function; if a weak nation has no chance to grow stronger and survive, and suddenly a nation that could compete and win, offers to be a protectorate state, then that smaller nation would accept, even if that means losing income, because that means that they'll survive. At the same time, if the nation can't afford the costs (the "yes or no" screen should have pros and cons), there is a majority of citizens demanding to decline the offer, or if the current leader doesn't want the nation to become a satellite state, then they will decline. A strong nation wouldn't become a satellite state to a weak one, and a protectorate would want to bring in smaller states before becoming that to ones of equal size to it or the confederation as a whole. Being the protectorate gives increased survival, since you have several nations under your command; a confederation might be able to defeat a standard nation of the same or greater size, since each of these satellite states have their own bonuses based on government and specialization, so there would be a greater variety in troops, as opposed to the standard nation just having its single bonuses.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
NickTheNick
Overall Team Co-Lead


Posts : 2312
Reputation : 175
Join date : 2012-07-22
Age : 20
Location : Canada

PostSubject: Re: Confederations, Integrated Empires, Vassilisation (Applies to Industrial to Space)   Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:18 pm

MitochondriaBox wrote:
I'm kind of wondering how the computer would use this function diplomatically. I know that, for the AI, these satellite states react to the offer to join based on relations, but what if the nation given the offer is really powerful, and suddenly a weak ally wants to become a protectorate state? Logically, the potential satellite state won't just accept, because it is a larger and stronger nation. I think we should have a potential satellite state's decision be based not on just relationship, but also statistics of both nations as well as circumstances, including the current leaders and enemies.

Military and economic strength also tie in to influence, what effect the likelihood of AI nations accepting your offers. That means that will be accounted for.

MitochondriaBox wrote:
Incidentally, what will the AI be playing for? Is it playing for a set condition (Civilization AI plays to win), or does it just play to survive? I'm thinking the second, since there isn't exactly a victory condition for any stage apart from going to the next stage, and, in reality, becoming a multicellular organism is less a win condition than a prerequisite to reaching the next stage, which is mostly what Thrive is about.

There would be several preset AI personalities we could create after making the generic "Survive" AI. We could make an expansionist AI, a defensive one, a trading powerhouse, a militaristic empire, etc.

_________________
Look at how far we've come when people thought we'd get nowhere. Imagine how far we can go if we try to get somewhere.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Confederations, Integrated Empires, Vassilisation (Applies to Industrial to Space)   Today at 11:52 pm

Back to top Go down
 
Confederations, Integrated Empires, Vassilisation (Applies to Industrial to Space)
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Thrive Game Development :: Development :: Design :: Gameplay Stages :: Space-
Jump to: