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DragonEye4
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PostSubject: Re: How to access this   Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:07 pm

US_of_Alaska wrote:
DragonEye4 wrote:
OK, I thought of a way to solve all of this, without having mist and god tools and whatnot.

There would be two Observer Modes.

One mode would be limited mode. It would be available from the beginning of the game. It would have the same camera as your creature, so you would only see as much as if you were controlling your creature, but your organism would act, move, and such without you having to do anything. This way, you would know know more than your organism would.

The Other mode would be unlimited mode, which would be unattached to your creature. It would be gained after ascension, and allow you to see everything.

How would this work for strategy mode, I do not know.
Dislike. Do not want two Obs Modes.
The other one is ascension, so we already have two obs modes, Ascension and normal, my idea was pretty much just changing normal.
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US_of_Alaska
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PostSubject: Re: How to access this   Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:37 am

DragonEye4 wrote:
US_of_Alaska wrote:
DragonEye4 wrote:
OK, I thought of a way to solve all of this, without having mist and god tools and whatnot.

There would be two Observer Modes.

One mode would be limited mode. It would be available from the beginning of the game. It would have the same camera as your creature, so you would only see as much as if you were controlling your creature, but your organism would act, move, and such without you having to do anything. This way, you would know know more than your organism would.

The Other mode would be unlimited mode, which would be unattached to your creature. It would be gained after ascension, and allow you to see everything.

How would this work for strategy mode, I do not know.
Dislike. Do not want two Obs Modes.
The other one is ascension, so we already have two obs modes, Ascension and normal, my idea was pretty much just changing normal.
They are not two different modes. Ascension just removes fog everywhere, and therefore lets the player see everything.
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DragonEye4
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PostSubject: Re: How to access this   Sun Oct 31, 2010 1:21 pm

US_of_Alaska wrote:
DragonEye4 wrote:
US_of_Alaska wrote:
DragonEye4 wrote:
OK, I thought of a way to solve all of this, without having mist and god tools and whatnot.

There would be two Observer Modes.

One mode would be limited mode. It would be available from the beginning of the game. It would have the same camera as your creature, so you would only see as much as if you were controlling your creature, but your organism would act, move, and such without you having to do anything. This way, you would know know more than your organism would.

The Other mode would be unlimited mode, which would be unattached to your creature. It would be gained after ascension, and allow you to see everything.

How would this work for strategy mode, I do not know.
Dislike. Do not want two Obs Modes.
The other one is ascension, so we already have two obs modes, Ascension and normal, my idea was pretty much just changing normal.
They are not two different modes. Ascension just removes fog everywhere, and therefore lets the player see everything.
But why not just make pre-ascension Observation mode camera follow your creature anyways, so we don't have to deal with fog, and then ascension lets you move it away from the Creature?
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PostSubject: Re: How to access this   Sun Oct 31, 2010 1:26 pm

DragonEye4 wrote:
US_of_Alaska wrote:
DragonEye4 wrote:
US_of_Alaska wrote:
DragonEye4 wrote:
OK, I thought of a way to solve all of this, without having mist and god tools and whatnot.

There would be two Observer Modes.

One mode would be limited mode. It would be available from the beginning of the game. It would have the same camera as your creature, so you would only see as much as if you were controlling your creature, but your organism would act, move, and such without you having to do anything. This way, you would know know more than your organism would.

The Other mode would be unlimited mode, which would be unattached to your creature. It would be gained after ascension, and allow you to see everything.

How would this work for strategy mode, I do not know.
Dislike. Do not want two Obs Modes.
The other one is ascension, so we already have two obs modes, Ascension and normal, my idea was pretty much just changing normal.
They are not two different modes. Ascension just removes fog everywhere, and therefore lets the player see everything.
But why not just make pre-ascension Observation mode camera follow your creature anyways, so we don't have to deal with fog, and then ascension lets you move it away from the Creature?

Thats the best Idea yet. I really dislike the fog idea...
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PostSubject: Re: How to access this   Sun Oct 31, 2010 2:36 pm

I think fog would just be... Bad. Un-Thrivish. I think just having the camera follow the organism would be the best idea.
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Tenebrarum
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PostSubject: Re: How to access this   Sun Oct 31, 2010 4:50 pm

Restrict the camara. It can only go a certain distance away from your TOs/Orgs.
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US_of_Alaska
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PostSubject: Re: How to access this   Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:08 pm

Tenebrarum wrote:
Restrict the camara. It can only go a certain distance away from your TOs/Orgs.
This would work, but you still might be able to angel it so that the camera can see further than your organism can sense. Which is why i think that fog is necessary.
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PostSubject: Re: How to access this   Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:58 pm

US_of_Alaska wrote:
Tenebrarum wrote:
Restrict the camara. It can only go a certain distance away from your TOs/Orgs.
This would work, but you still might be able to angel it so that the camera can see further than your organism can sense. Which is why i think that fog is necessary.

Same is true with 3rd person camara.
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PostSubject: Re: How to access this   Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:02 pm

Tenebrarum wrote:
US_of_Alaska wrote:
Tenebrarum wrote:
Restrict the camara. It can only go a certain distance away from your TOs/Orgs.
This would work, but you still might be able to angel it so that the camera can see further than your organism can sense. Which is why i think that fog is necessary.

Same is true with 3rd person camara.
Yeah, the only way to see only what your creature sees would be to have first person camera, so unless you want fog in the organism mode...
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Commander Keen
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PostSubject: Re: How to access this   Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:04 am

So, the non-God mode Observer cam is the same as normal Org. mode camera?
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PostSubject: Re: How to access this   Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:22 am

Commander Keen wrote:
So, the non-God mode Observer cam is the same as normal Org. mode camera?

No. Org mode is bound to one organism.
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PostSubject: Re: How to access this   Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:23 am

In org mode, the 3rd person camera would be in a fixed position behind, and slightly above the organism. In observer mode, you could zoom in and out (not too far out), rotate the camera around your organism, add light filters (Maybe?), record, take pictures... But not control your organism. Observer before god tool and 3rd person camera are vastly different!
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PostSubject: Re: How to access this   Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:37 pm

I think the only good way to do it realistically would be 1st person; the advantages are:
  • if you're creature had no eyes there would be a disadvantage (and not just have a load of fog clouding the screen)
    If you had 360 vision or 50 or 260 or whatever then there would be an advantage
    you wouldn't be able to see behind you and there wouldn't be a unrealistic advantage
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PostSubject: Re: How to access this   Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:40 pm

Agrestrife wrote:
I think the only good way to do it realistically would be 1st person; the advantages are:
  • if you're creature had no eyes there would be a disadvantage (and not just have a load of fog clouding the screen)
    If you had 360 vision or 50 or 260 or whatever then there would be an advantage
    you wouldn't be able to see behind you and there wouldn't be a unrealistic advantage
Actually, I think we already have decided on having both types, but we could have a re-vote if enough people agree.
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PostSubject: Re: How to access this   Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:42 pm

The Uteen wrote:
Agrestrife wrote:
I think the only good way to do it realistically would be 1st person; the advantages are:
  • if you're creature had no eyes there would be a disadvantage (and not just have a load of fog clouding the screen)
    If you had 360 vision or 50 or 260 or whatever then there would be an advantage
    you wouldn't be able to see behind you and there wouldn't be a unrealistic advantage
Actually, I think we already have decided on having both types, but we could have a re-vote if enough people agree.
I don't mind.
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PostSubject: Re: How to access this   Tue Nov 02, 2010 4:23 pm

Quote :
In org mode, the 3rd person camera would be in a fixed position behind, and slightly above the organism. In observer mode, you could zoom in and out (not too far out), rotate the camera around your organism, record, take pictures

We might have to discuss Org. mode and Observer camera functions in greater detail. Zooming, rotating, recording and screencapping should be available in both modes.
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US_of_Alaska
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PostSubject: Re: How to access this   Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:49 pm

Tenebrarum wrote:
US_of_Alaska wrote:
Tenebrarum wrote:
Restrict the camara. It can only go a certain distance away from your TOs/Orgs.
This would work, but you still might be able to angel it so that the camera can see further than your organism can sense. Which is why i think that fog is necessary.

Same is true with 3rd person camara.
No it is not. Because in Org Mode third person, only what your controlled creature can sense is rendered. Observer Mode is a different ball game entirely.
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PostSubject: Re: How to access this   Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:44 am

Agrestrife wrote:
I think the only good way to do it realistically would be 1st person; the advantages are:
  • if you're creature had no eyes there would be a disadvantage (and not just have a load of fog clouding the screen)
    If you had 360 vision or 50 or 260 or whatever then there would be an advantage
    you wouldn't be able to see behind you and there wouldn't be a unrealistic advantage

What about some creatures, such as owls that can turn their necks 360 degrees? I think that's something to be implemented. So the camera angle can only go as far as the creature's neck/head/anatomy blah blah will allow.. actually, here, let me explain:

Take us humans. We can only turn our heads about 90 degrees. When our head reaches that restriction, we start moving our eyes that way, which give us roughly another 90 degrees. If we need more rotation, we start turning our waist. And that's about another 50 degrees, somewhere around there. And if we need to make a full rotation, and are standing up, we shuffle our feet, which gives us enough rotation to make us dizzy, and that's a lot. A basically infinite amount, given you have enough energy to do it forever.

But in-game, we need a slight disadvantage to differ us from those guys who happen to have eyes all around their head, or a neck or waist or joint where their eyes are on that can rotate 360 degrees and keep going. So then we might take that last part (shuffling feet) away, so we can only turn the camera halfway, or however much you can rotate without feet, before we get stuck. Then we have to start moving our feet, by pressing a directional key or something.

But no creature with 360 degree vision can see all the way around it to start with, but the camera can be rotated all the way around without the creature having to move its head/neck/anatomy blah blah. That way we don't have to have weird panorama-vision.

(I mainly thought this applied to 3rd person, but looking back I think 1st person works decently with the system.)
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PostSubject: Re: How to access this   Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:53 am

Noitulove wrote:
Agrestrife wrote:
I think the only good way to do it realistically would be 1st person; the advantages are:
if you're creature had no eyes there would be a disadvantage (and not just have a load of fog clouding the screen)
If you had 360 vision or 50 or 260 or whatever then there would be an advantage
you wouldn't be able to see behind you and there wouldn't be a unrealistic advantage

What about some creatures, such as owls that can turn their necks 360 degrees? I think that's something to be implemented. So the camera angle can only go as far as the creature's neck/head/anatomy blah blah will allow.. actually, here, let me explain:

Take us humans. We can only turn our heads about 90 degrees. When our head reaches that restriction, we start moving our eyes that way, which give us roughly another 90 degrees. If we need more rotation, we start turning our waist. And that's about another 50 degrees, somewhere around there. And if we need to make a full rotation, and are standing up, we shuffle our feet, which gives us enough rotation to make us dizzy, and that's a lot. A basically infinite amount, given you have enough energy to do it forever.

But in-game, we need a slight disadvantage to differ us from those guys who happen to have eyes all around their head, or a neck or waist or joint where their eyes are on that can rotate 360 degrees and keep going. So then we might take that last part (shuffling feet) away, so we can only turn the camera halfway, or however much you can rotate without feet, before we get stuck. Then we have to start moving our feet, by pressing a directional key or something.

But no creature with 360 degree vision can see all the way around it to start with, but the camera can be rotated all the way around without the creature having to move its head/neck/anatomy blah blah. That way we don't have to have weird panorama-vision.

(I mainly thought this applied to 3rd person, but looking back I think 1st person works decently with the system.)
That sounds good, reasonable, feasible, and acceptable, and for that reason I have reasonably good acceptance of this feasibility.

In other words, QFT.
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PostSubject: Re: How to access this   Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:00 am

I don't understand why we can't just use the sensory overlay system that we've always intended on using. You see what the creature can sense. That means with their heads where their heads are, their feet where their feet are, and everything else according to how everything else is.
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PostSubject: Re: How to access this   Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:42 am

US_of_Alaska wrote:
I don't understand why we can't just use the sensory overlay system that we've always intended on using. You see what the creature can sense. That means with their heads where their heads are, their feet where their feet are, and everything else according to how everything else is.

it sounds good, but it also sounds that it'd make some lag...
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PostSubject: Re: How to access this   Thu Nov 04, 2010 12:53 pm

US_of_Alaska wrote:
I don't understand why we can't just use the sensory overlay system that we've always intended on using. You see what the creature can sense. That means with their heads where their heads are, their feet where their feet are, and everything else according to how everything else is.

But what if they have eyes all around their head?

And.. waait for it, waaait for it, that's where the paradox sets in.

Anyway, I'd like to know the specifics, how this works. It sounds like it'd only work in 1st person.
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PostSubject: Re: How to access this   Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:47 pm

Noitulove wrote:
US_of_Alaska wrote:
I don't understand why we can't just use the sensory overlay system that we've always intended on using. You see what the creature can sense. That means with their heads where their heads are, their feet where their feet are, and everything else according to how everything else is.

But what if they have eyes all around their head?

And.. waait for it, waaait for it, that's where the paradox sets in.

Anyway, I'd like to know the specifics, how this works. It sounds like it'd only work in 1st person.

What if we have the sensors move as the mouse does? Spore used similer systems to make the mouth (Weirdly) turn to face the correct direction in certain circumstances. Gmod moves your head as you face different directions. This plus the sensor overlay Alaska mentioned should help most situations.
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PostSubject: Re: How to access this   Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:25 pm

Tenebrarum wrote:
Noitulove wrote:
US_of_Alaska wrote:
I don't understand why we can't just use the sensory overlay system that we've always intended on using. You see what the creature can sense. That means with their heads where their heads are, their feet where their feet are, and everything else according to how everything else is.

But what if they have eyes all around their head?

And.. waait for it, waaait for it, that's where the paradox sets in.

Anyway, I'd like to know the specifics, how this works. It sounds like it'd only work in 1st person.

What if we have the sensors move as the mouse does? Spore used similer systems to make the mouth (Weirdly) turn to face the correct direction in certain circumstances. Gmod moves your head as you face different directions. This plus the sensor overlay Alaska mentioned should help most situations.
I think the 'Sensory Hub' (as in the place where all the eyes, nose, ears, etc are) moving to face the mouse is a great idea.

And why would sensory overlay only work in first person? I think it is better suited to third, where if there was no overlay the player could manipulate the camera angles to see more than their organism can see.
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PostSubject: Re: How to access this   Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:24 am

Tenebrarum wrote:
Noitulove wrote:
US_of_Alaska wrote:
I don't understand why we can't just use the sensory overlay system that we've always intended on using. You see what the creature can sense. That means with their heads where their heads are, their feet where their feet are, and everything else according to how everything else is.

But what if they have eyes all around their head?

And.. waait for it, waaait for it, that's where the paradox sets in.

Anyway, I'd like to know the specifics, how this works. It sounds like it'd only work in 1st person.

What if we have the sensors move as the mouse does? Spore used similer systems to make the mouth (Weirdly) turn to face the correct direction in certain circumstances. Gmod moves your head as you face different directions. This plus the sensor overlay Alaska mentioned should help most situations.

This sounds a lot like a basic summary of my last post (you know, the one like this; go back a page) and could result in some weird animation, but sure, I'll stick to this.
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