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 Evolution in Gameplay

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~sciocont
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PostSubject: Re: Evolution in Gameplay   Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:40 am

The Uteen wrote:
Are you saying they will be complicated creatures like zebras and chosen to be already adapted to he environment?


The Uteen wrote:
These organisms I hope will be very, very, simple, and not specialised? It's okay making specialised creatures for the game but super auto-evoing them would not get them to drive to change.

They need a need to change, people.

Yes. When you come across a planet with advanced life, it will be populated just before you observe it. In this way, we don't have to run auto-evo on every life-bearing planet in the galaxy.

Yes, they do need a need to change. Obviously when they are selected, they will not be perfectly adapted to the planet already, so there will be a big need for change, resulting in a big need for auto-evo, probably through El Noumo's approach.

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YourBreakfast
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PostSubject: Re: Evolution in Gameplay   Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:36 pm

Sounds good. We might as well have a library in-game, so I love the idea of using that to populate the planet just as you visit it. One question though, after said planet being found upon, do the inhabitants of that world evolve procedurally after we leave it, or do they stop and then skip the appropriate generations of evolution the next time you visit?
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Commander Keen
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PostSubject: Re: Evolution in Gameplay   Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:06 pm

Well, in space stage, evolution is so slow it's practically invisible, so there would not be even the need to evolve any further.
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YourBreakfast
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PostSubject: Re: Evolution in Gameplay   Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:11 pm

Commander Keen wrote:
Well, in space stage, evolution is so slow it's practically invisible, so there would not be even the need to evolve any further.

Lol, yeah. I think I mean technology-wise not evolution.
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Commander Keen
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PostSubject: Re: Evolution in Gameplay   Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:19 pm

Sorry, my bad.

It could use time elapsed between last interacting with the civ, and do a "technology jump" based on this time. The more of the time, the longer the jump.
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YourBreakfast
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PostSubject: Re: Evolution in Gameplay   Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:25 pm

Commander Keen wrote:
Sorry, my bad.

It could use time elapsed between last interacting with the civ, and do a "technology jump" based on this time. The more of the time, the longer the jump.

Yeah I was thinking the same.

And it wasn't your fault, I was the one who said evolution, lol. ;D
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roadkillguy
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PostSubject: Re: Evolution in Gameplay   Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:15 pm

Well, how exactly do we know the organisms coming out of random-generation would be necessarily ugly? Have we actually tested this before?
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~sciocont
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PostSubject: Re: Evolution in Gameplay   Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:18 pm

roadkillguy wrote:
Well, how exactly do we know the organisms coming out of random-generation would be necessarily ugly? Have we actually tested this before?
Just don't go there right now. We're going to test a bunch of different takes on evolution in the game, and we'll see what works when we get there. Just, for now, don't bring it up.

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Bashinerox
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PostSubject: Re: Evolution in Gameplay   Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:25 am

roadkillguy wrote:
Well, how exactly do we know the organisms coming out of random-generation would be necessarily ugly? Have we actually tested this before?

We simply dont _know_ anything yet. We dont have an algorithm to generate anything. Current development is bringing up an engine capable of accepting an algorithm to create something. Like sciocont said, dont go there :P.
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roadkillguy
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PostSubject: Re: Evolution in Gameplay   Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:30 pm

Alright I'll leave it alone.

Soo what exactly IS the current concept then?

As far as I know, it's like this:

You start as a creature and play around for a certain amount of time.
After that, you proceed to the next generation where the game either A, brings you to an editor, or B, brings you to a loading screen depending on what your options are. In between generations are the major evolutionary calculations.

I'm not stating that's how it's supposed to be, I'm just wondering if I have my facts straight. Is this correct?
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DragonEye4
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PostSubject: Re: Evolution in Gameplay   Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:13 pm

Say, what is the current concept of being able to access the editor in-gameplay and auto-evolution? How will that work?
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US_of_Alaska
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PostSubject: Re: Evolution in Gameplay   Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:56 am

DragonEye4 wrote:
Say, what is the current concept of being able to access the editor in-gameplay and auto-evolution? How will that work?
It's pending a working auto-evolution algorithm. When we see how good it really is, then we'll decide. And of course if a better one comes along in the future, we'd be happy to add it in.
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Pezzalis
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PostSubject: Re: Evolution in Gameplay   Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:14 am

As far as Auto-Evo goes... Will mate selection have an impact on the next generation?

For example, somebody above mentioned that you will play as the average of your species - but there will be many variations of your species.

Say for example when your species is ready to mate you can make a selection between a variation of possible partners.
Depending on which one you select, there will be an effect on the outcome of the next generation in combination with the current auto-evo concept.
(Could add early aspects of Natural+Sexual Selection into game play)

It could also provide some more player direction.
IE. Ooh that one has a nice looking head crest! I want all my species to have something like that!

So has anything like that been planned...?
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Waap
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PostSubject: Re: Evolution in Gameplay   Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:27 am

To be completely honest, I'm not sure if I quite understood the above post, but it made me think of something.
With the behaviour editor, you could select what your species are attracted to in a mate. Correct?
If so, you would be able to influence your species' evolution by selecting what mutations would make your creature more attractive.
Example: Your Rhinoguys have shortish horns on their noses, but you think they would be awesomer with longer horns. You go into behaviour editor. Clickity click click click. Rhinoguy gets born. Just so happens to have a slightly larger horn. Rhinoguy grows up. Rhinoguy gets lots of rhinogirlfriends. Offspring has larger horns, too. Yay!!
Congratulations. This post will self-destruct in five... fou-
-Waap.
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Pezzalis
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PostSubject: Re: Evolution in Gameplay   Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:34 am

Waap wrote:
To be completely honest, I'm not sure if I quite understood the above post, but it made me think of something.
With the behaviour editor, you could select what your species are attracted to in a mate. Correct?
If so, you would be able to influence your species' evolution by selecting what mutations would make your creature more attractive.
Example: Your Rhinoguys have shortish horns on their noses, but you think they would be awesomer with longer horns. You go into behaviour editor. Clickity click click click. Rhinoguy gets born. Just so happens to have a slightly larger horn. Rhinoguy grows up. Rhinoguy gets lots of rhinogirlfriends. Offspring has larger horns, too. Yay!!
Congratulations. This post will self-destruct in five... fou-
-Waap.

Ahh great That is brilliant

I was basically suggesting that the mate you choose will effect the outcome of your species next generation...
But your concept would make more sense on the wider scale...
Not the mate the player chooses but the mate that the entire species is more likely to reproduce with
IE
You could directly decide where your species can go with the behaviour editor.
I want my species to be faster swimmers...
Behaviour editor ---> If fins are bigger than "XYZ" Mate with organism. (Or increase the probability of the large finned creature being selected as a mate.

Its great
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Waap
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PostSubject: Re: Evolution in Gameplay   Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:45 am

Pezzalis wrote:
...If fins are bigger than "XYZ" Mate with organism...

Or...

If (organism) swims faster than "XYZ", mate with organism. Of course, it may be that that (organism) is just faster because he/she/it works out more, or it may be in the DNA. Either way could work, but the size of one's fins is not the only thing that affects one's speed. He/she/it may have a better body shape for swimming quickly, or maybe has stronger muscles in a certain area which means it can swim better. That area could be anywhere, depending on the shape, size, behaviour, etc. of (organism). It might even be a tiger we are talking about!

But there is also a good chance that larger fins will make the organism swim faster, anyway. XD
-Waap.
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Pezzalis
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PostSubject: Re: Evolution in Gameplay   Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:49 am

Waap wrote:
Pezzalis wrote:
...If fins are bigger than "XYZ" Mate with organism...

Or...

If (organism) swims faster than "XYZ", mate with organism. Of course, it may be that that (organism) is just faster because he/she/it works out more, or it may be in the DNA. Either way could work, but the size of one's fins is not the only thing that affects one's speed. He/she/it may have a better body shape for swimming quickly, or maybe has stronger muscles in a certain area which means it can swim better. That area could be anywhere, depending on the shape, size, behaviour, etc. of (organism). It might even be a tiger we are talking about!

But there is also a good chance that larger fins will make the organism swim faster, anyway. XD
-Waap.

Yeah that would make alot more sense but I simplified it to s visual indication. I mean...

If I saw two people and you asked me which was the faster swimmer, I wouldn't have a clue.
Behaviour wise I think these kind of indications have to be visual or detectable by the mate.
But there could be something like an evolutionary planner where you could add such non-detectable traits... But perhaps thats straying too far from the current concept
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Waap
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PostSubject: Re: Evolution in Gameplay   Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:37 am

Unless two organisms competed for a mate, and that competition was a swimming race of some sort...
-Waap.
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Albalrogue
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PostSubject: Re: Evolution in Gameplay   Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:39 am

Right, sorry for changing the subject here but I would like to know if auto-evo is still going to happen. I haven't really got time to read all of the topic.
I've read that pure darwinism isn't possible, and that there will be a mix between lamarkian and darwinism.
But I also read that now you would be able to edit you're organism slightly every time you mate. Wich one is it?

Sorry I'm just confused.
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The Uteen
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PostSubject: Re: Evolution in Gameplay   Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:20 am

Albalrogue wrote:
Right, sorry for changing the subject here but I would like to know if auto-evo is still going to happen. I haven't really got time to read all of the topic.
I've read that pure darwinism isn't possible, and that there will be a mix between lamarkian and darwinism.
But I also read that now you would be able to edit you're organism slightly every time you mate. Wich one is it?

Sorry I'm just confused.

If we try to implement auto-evo and it turns out impossible to do without bugs upon bugs, then we use the mix as backup.
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Albalrogue
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PostSubject: Re: Evolution in Gameplay   Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:28 am

Okay, so no small edits every generation?
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eumesmo
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PostSubject: Re: Evolution in Gameplay   Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:31 pm

not a simple answer:
observer mode: none
god powers: all change you want
others: little to none
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Albalrogue
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PostSubject: Re: Evolution in Gameplay   Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:11 am

When you say "none" or "little to none", are you talking about editing manualy a little bit the organism every generation? Well if that's the case, can I make a suggestion? Make it possible to activate disactivate the slight editing in the mods like strategy mode or organism mod, and leave auto-evo (or mix depending on what we'll get) inevitable in every mod INCLUDING god mod.
I don't want to edit my organism every ****ing time there's a new generation of my species.
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The Uteen
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PostSubject: Re: Evolution in Gameplay   Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:34 pm

Albalrogue wrote:
When you say "none" or "little to none", are you talking about editing manualy a little bit the organism every generation? Well if that's the case, can I make a suggestion? Make it possible to activate disactivate the slight editing in the mods like strategy mode or organism mod, and leave auto-evo (or mix depending on what we'll get) inevitable in every mod INCLUDING god mod.
I don't want to edit my organism every ****ing time there's a new generation of my species.

I'd suggest both direct editing and auto-evo to be optional. Then another possibility is turning off evolution, which some people might want, if they get a good eco-system/need time to keep up with the changing world.
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Waap
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PostSubject: Re: Evolution in Gameplay   Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:19 pm

^YES.^
I completely agree with the above post.
-Waap.
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