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 FTL travel

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Darth Invader



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PostSubject: FTL travel   Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:11 pm

Once you're in space will FTL be researchable? Also if there is FTL travel could there be multiple forms of it?
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Commander Keen
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PostSubject: Re: FTL travel   Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:36 pm

Yes, FTL travel will be possible, but I don't see why multiple methods would be needed, unless they are substantialy different (ie. jump gates and warp drives)
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Invader
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PostSubject: Re: FTL travel   Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:12 pm

It definitely should be if you plan on getting places efficiently. I guess there could be different ways of doing it- like, different fuels.
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~sciocont
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PostSubject: Re: FTL travel   Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:50 pm

Darth Invader wrote:
Once you're in space will FTL be researchable? Also if there is FTL travel could there be multiple forms of it?
We should include all possible ways to travel FTL. At least, all that we want. There are several different ideas.

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Albalrogue
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PostSubject: Re: FTL travel   Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:51 am

What does FTL mean? I suppose it's "faster than light", am I right?
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Darkov
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PostSubject: Re: FTL travel   Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:07 pm

Albalrogue wrote:
What does FTL mean? I suppose it's "faster than light", am I right?
yes
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Albalrogue
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PostSubject: Re: FTL travel   Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:11 pm

Okay.

InvaderZim wrote:
It definitely should be if you plan on getting places efficiently. I guess there could be different ways of doing it- like, different fuels.

Hmmm... I don't think that any fuel could make a ship go faster than light (antimater engines would make a ship go at about 15000 km/s, quite slow against the light). But thats just me being annoying.
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Commander Keen
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PostSubject: Re: FTL travel   Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:19 pm

Quote :
It definitely should be if you plan on getting places efficiently. I guess there could be different ways of doing it- like, different fuels.

Leveling up a warp technology should cover it.

~sciocont wrote:
We should include all possible ways to travel FTL. At least, all that we want. There are several different ideas.

What's the point in including five different technologies if they all do the same? The player is not really going to see how they work, and having five clones of the same tech is just going to be more work. Maybe two highly different ways could be implemented, but still that could be unlocked just by leveling up the tech.
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~sciocont
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PostSubject: Re: FTL travel   Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:12 pm

Commander Keen wrote:
Quote :
It definitely should be if you plan on getting places efficiently. I guess there could be different ways of doing it- like, different fuels.

Leveling up a warp technology should cover it.

~sciocont wrote:
We should include all possible ways to travel FTL. At least, all that we want. There are several different ideas.

What's the point in including five different technologies if they all do the same? The player is not really going to see how they work, and having five clones of the same tech is just going to be more work. Maybe two highly different ways could be implemented, but still that could be unlocked just by leveling up the tech.
Because they could be achieved in different ways, have different efficiencies, and be completely different ideas.

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PostSubject: Re: FTL travel   Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:14 pm

like alcuberie drive and hyperspace jumps.. this is a good thing to add levels, until lets say level 3 you can only sand probes, and spaceships only come in higher levels, for starters, they are unreliable probes (though the level for piloting could be 2 or 1 according to how your species behaved
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PostSubject: Re: FTL travel   Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:04 am

~sciocont wrote:
Because they could be achieved in different ways, have different efficiencies, and be completely different ideas.

But this does not apply only to FTL, there are many technologies that can be branched like that. Applying this to every research can leave us two times bigger tech tree, and doing it only for FTL seems just bad.

We need to do some generalization, or we might as well spend the eternity doing tech tree.
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GamerXA
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PostSubject: Re: FTL travel   Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:04 am

Possible ways of FTL travel that I can think of at 9 or 10 at night after a long travel:
  • Alcubierre Drive (creating a 'Warp' Bubble in normal space)
  • Artificial Wormhole Creation (pretty much self explanatory, might not count)
  • Hyperspace Travel (traveling in 'Subspace' or 'Hyperspace')

Most of these don't actually have the craft itself traveling FTL. They just seem to shorten the time in transit between the two places.
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~sciocont
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PostSubject: Re: FTL travel   Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:02 am

GamerXA wrote:
Possible ways of FTL travel that I can think of at 9 or 10 at night after a long travel:
  • Alcubierre Drive (creating a 'Warp' Bubble in normal space)
  • Artificial Wormhole Creation (pretty much self explanatory, might not count)
  • Hyperspace Travel (traveling in 'Subspace' or 'Hyperspace')

Most of these don't actually have the craft itself traveling FTL. They just seem to shorten the time in transit between the two places.
There's also teleportation and i think a few others.
eumesmo wrote:
like alcuberie drive and hyperspace jumps.. this is a good thing to add levels, until lets say level 3 you can only sand probes, and spaceships only come in higher levels, for starters, they are unreliable probes (though the level for piloting could be 2 or 1 according to how your species behaved
Levels for this technology would probably involve the speed and efficiency of the technology itself.

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PostSubject: Re: FTL travel   Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:23 am

You still haven't ansewer this, Scio:

Commander Keen wrote:
Quote :
Quote :
What's the point in including five different technologies if they all do the same?

Because they could be achieved in different ways, have different efficiencies, and be completely different ideas.

But this does not apply only to FTL, there are many technologies that can be branched like that. Applying this to every research can leave us two times bigger tech tree, and doing it only for FTL seems just bad.

We need to do some generalization, or we might as well spend the eternity doing tech tree.
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~sciocont
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PostSubject: Re: FTL travel   Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:25 am

Commander Keen wrote:
You still haven't ansewer this, Scio:

Commander Keen wrote:
Quote :
Quote :
What's the point in including five different technologies if they all do the same?

Because they could be achieved in different ways, have different efficiencies, and be completely different ideas.

But this does not apply only to FTL, there are many technologies that can be branched like that. Applying this to every research can leave us two times bigger tech tree, and doing it only for FTL seems just bad.

We need to do some generalization, or we might as well spend the eternity doing tech tree.
Of course things will be brabched. The tech tree will probably be the most complex hard-coded asset in our entire game, excluding possibly auto-evo and the editors.

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PostSubject: Re: FTL travel   Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:38 am

You really want to complicate the techtree just to have more techs, when you can generalise it? I don't mind fundamentaly different things like Fire and Metalworking, but having Slingshot, Bow, Crossbow, Arbalest and more instead of just Ranged weapons, or Ballista, Catapult, Mangonel, Trebuchet, Stonethrower instead of Siege Weapons, that seems superfluous.
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~sciocont
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PostSubject: Re: FTL travel   Sat Oct 02, 2010 12:10 pm

Commander Keen wrote:
You really want to complicate the techtree just to have more techs, when you can generalise it? I don't mind fundamentaly different things like Fire and Metalworking, but having Slingshot, Bow, Crossbow, Arbalest and more instead of just Ranged weapons, or Ballista, Catapult, Mangonel, Trebuchet, Stonethrower instead of Siege Weapons, that seems superfluous.
You make a good point. All these weaopns should not be different researches. They are all simple machines, and the player can create them with the TE.

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PostSubject: Re: FTL travel   Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:56 pm

Perhaps new techs should simply unlock new parts for the Tech Editor? Researching "motor" would enable the addition of motors to pieces of tech created within the editor, with all that that entails. The tech tree would be fixed, but what the player could use it for would be unlimited.
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~sciocont
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PostSubject: Re: FTL travel   Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:25 pm

Xenopologist wrote:
Perhaps new techs should simply unlock new parts for the Tech Editor? Researching "motor" would enable the addition of motors to pieces of tech created within the editor, with all that that entails. The tech tree would be fixed, but what the player could use it for would be unlimited.
I think that's a good idea, each technology could pertain to a fuction part.

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US_of_Alaska
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PostSubject: Re: FTL travel   Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:45 pm

~sciocont wrote:
Xenopologist wrote:
Perhaps new techs should simply unlock new parts for the Tech Editor? Researching "motor" would enable the addition of motors to pieces of tech created within the editor, with all that that entails. The tech tree would be fixed, but what the player could use it for would be unlimited.
I think that's a good idea, each technology could pertain to a fuction part.
Each research. And i think that is a fairly safe idea, having construction researches pertain to a function part, and societal researches to something in the NE.

But i don't agree with what was said about the weapons. I do not know how to make a catapult or ballista that works well. I don't want to have to. I want a FP that does this for me, i just have to put it on a trolley or a siege tower or a defensive building. And what about when we get to things like guns? Are we going to just have gunpowder and make the player build everything from the matchlock up? That's ridiculous.
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eumesmo
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PostSubject: Re: FTL travel   Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:57 pm

improvements would had to be done, and i agree with alaska that we cannont generalize everything, or we could make snipers once we had gunpowder... i think we need to find a mid-term between generalization and specification. where you can research ranged tools, but then need other researches to unlock tech parts needed for certain things, being those new and/or improvements to the tech...
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Commander Keen
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PostSubject: Re: FTL travel   Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:20 am

US_of_Alaska wrote:
Each research. And i think that is a fairly safe idea, having construction researches pertain to a function part, and societal researches to something in the NE.

Also it should unlock premade Tech objects.

US_of_Alaska wrote:
But i don't agree with what was said about the weapons. I do not know how to make a catapult or ballista that works well. I don't want to have to. I want a FP that does this for me, i just have to put it on a trolley or a siege tower or a defensive building. And what about when we get to things like guns? Are we going to just have gunpowder and make the player build everything from the matchlock up? That's ridiculous.

You know, premade Tech objects, just place them where you want your already complete mechanism to be.

Also, manually built Tech objects would be only 2-6 FPs. So, in your example, you would have Matchlock and Barrel. That's all, everything after that would be optional.

BTW, the whole Siege weapons argument was about we should not make researches for everything, but generalise it instead.

Quote :
improvements would had to be done, and i agree with alaska that we cannont generalize everything, or we could make snipers once we had gunpowder...

That's why levels are needed. Discovering firearms would give you inaccurate short range weapons. You would need to level up the technology to have enough range, accuracy and damage allowing long range shooting.


(And while we are at it, heavy crossbow "snipers" existed in Middle Ages, with effective range of about 600m).
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eumesmo
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PostSubject: Re: FTL travel   Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:27 am

indeed.
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PostSubject: Re: FTL travel   Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:09 pm

Commander Keen wrote:
You know, premade Tech objects, just place them where you want your already complete mechanism to be.

Also, manually built Tech objects would be only 2-6 FPs. So, in your example, you would have Matchlock and Barrel. That's all, everything after that would be optional.

BTW, the whole Siege weapons argument was about we should not make researches for everything, but generalise it instead.
Yes, but giving premade Tech Objects an advantage over player-made TOs is negating the goal of this game: freedom.

Having the player make a basic firearm (it's a bit much to expect them to make anything else) is understandable. But you're saying that it's optional to have everything beyond that, and the player has to create them? I hope you mean with FPs...

It does need to be generalised, but there needs to be FPs for siege weapons. Expecting players to make a ballista bow or a catapult mechanism is a bit much.
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PostSubject: Re: FTL travel   Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:48 am

pre-made objects would be available, though they would be more inefficient then the same thing made by the player
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