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 Gameplay person display

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~sciocont
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PostSubject: Re: Gameplay person display   Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:42 pm

toxiciron wrote:
i would say as soon as they have some sort of sensor type organ
He means when you actually place it.

When you start out on a new generation.

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GamerXA
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PostSubject: Re: Gameplay person display   Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:00 am

That might get a tedious if the player must place the Camera every time they create an Organism. The Camera might be able to be set up from the center of the Organism with the angle that the majority of the eyes are facing, the distance from the Organism would be determined by the size and degree that the Organism is 'spread out'.
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PostSubject: Re: Gameplay person display   Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:56 pm

GamerXA wrote:
That might get a tedious if the player must place the Camera every time they create an Organism. The Camera might be able to be set up from the center of the Organism with the angle that the majority of the eyes are facing, the distance from the Organism would be determined by the size and degree that the Organism is 'spread out'.
And when they have no eyes?
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~sciocont
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PostSubject: Re: Gameplay person display   Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:06 pm

GamerXA wrote:
That might get a tedious if the player must place the Camera every time they create an Organism. The Camera might be able to be set up from the center of the Organism with the angle that the majority of the eyes are facing, the distance from the Organism would be determined by the size and degree that the Organism is 'spread out'.
But that again brings up the problem of the creature clipping through the camera, or just getting in the way.

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toxiciron
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PostSubject: Re: Gameplay person display   Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:54 pm

how about the creature is faded out/not shown when in first person? it really is simple, unless you want to be able to see your hands/legs, then maybe only render the hand/legs.
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PostSubject: Re: Gameplay person display   Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:02 am

The typical FPS way? Good solution.
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PostSubject: Re: Gameplay person display   Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:37 pm

Can't the camera move with the creature, as a 'sticker' placement on the creature? No problem with 'clipping through camera' if you just do that. Physics. You can't put a limb through your solid self.

And I like that idea of having a mini-editor for camera placement. As for how to access:

Gameplay Options -> First Person -> Place camera mini-editor!
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~sciocont
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PostSubject: Re: Gameplay person display   Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:20 pm

toxiciron wrote:
how about the creature is faded out/not shown when in first person? it really is simple, unless you want to be able to see your hands/legs, then maybe only render the hand/legs.
Ypou're only creating more problems, because then you'd have to select what to show and what not to show, whioch would differe incredibly depending on the organism. It's a much better idea just to have the player put it where they want.

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PostSubject: Re: Gameplay person display   Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:35 pm

~sciocont wrote:
toxiciron wrote:
how about the creature is faded out/not shown when in first person? it really is simple, unless you want to be able to see your hands/legs, then maybe only render the hand/legs.
Ypou're only creating more problems, because then you'd have to select what to show and what not to show, whioch would differe incredibly depending on the organism. It's a much better idea just to have the player put it where they want.

in fps's, only hands and sometimes legs are rendered. if you were to somehow program your hands to stay put and move the camera away from yourself, you would only see arms and legs, no body.
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The Uteen
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PostSubject: Re: Gameplay person display   Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:08 am

toxiciron wrote:
~sciocont wrote:
toxiciron wrote:
how about the creature is faded out/not shown when in first person? it really is simple, unless you want to be able to see your hands/legs, then maybe only render the hand/legs.
Ypou're only creating more problems, because then you'd have to select what to show and what not to show, whioch would differe incredibly depending on the organism. It's a much better idea just to have the player put it where they want.

in fps's, only hands and sometimes legs are rendered. if you were to somehow program your hands to stay put and move the camera away from yourself, you would only see arms and legs, no body.
You should be able to see your critter's body, not just hands and legs, humans can see most of their body, after all. The only part we can't see is the upper back and head. Anyway, determining what is and isn't visible from your perspective will be difficult, with everything to take into account: Movement, where parts are, angle of parts (think scorpions, with their tails curved over their head). Even the back should really be rendered, otherwise mirrors would get a bit glitchy...
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PostSubject: Re: Gameplay person display   Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:41 pm

You all are forgetting about different animations when it comes to the camera placement. For instance, just to be silly, some people may place the camera on the palm of the creature's hand. How will the animations work? When the creature closes its hand, the camera is blocked. You have to have certain parts of the creature that a camera can't be placed on, like the hands or legs. You would have very messed up animations.

I like the idea of placing the camera wherever you want, though. You'd also have to have a test mode to see how it looks while placing the camera, because the player would want to know where the camera allows them to see...
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~sciocont
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PostSubject: Re: Gameplay person display   Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:25 pm

Dudeman wrote:
You all are forgetting about different animations when it comes to the camera placement. For instance, just to be silly, some people may place the camera on the palm of the creature's hand. How will the animations work? When the creature closes its hand, the camera is blocked. You have to have certain parts of the creature that a camera can't be placed on, like the hands or legs. You would have very messed up animations.

I like the idea of placing the camera wherever you want, though. You'd also have to have a test mode to see how it looks while placing the camera, because the player would want to know where the camera allows them to see...
Basically, if the player does something stupid, they'll have to fix it.

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Dudeman
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PostSubject: Re: Gameplay person display   Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:10 am

~sciocont wrote:
Dudeman wrote:
You all are forgetting about different animations when it comes to the camera placement. For instance, just to be silly, some people may place the camera on the palm of the creature's hand. How will the animations work? When the creature closes its hand, the camera is blocked. You have to have certain parts of the creature that a camera can't be placed on, like the hands or legs. You would have very messed up animations.

I like the idea of placing the camera wherever you want, though. You'd also have to have a test mode to see how it looks while placing the camera, because the player would want to know where the camera allows them to see...
Basically, if the player does something stupid, they'll have to fix it.

Then that means that camera placement has to be accessible from in-game, like Uteen said.
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~sciocont
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PostSubject: Re: Gameplay person display   Sun Apr 10, 2011 8:28 pm

Dudeman wrote:
~sciocont wrote:
Dudeman wrote:
You all are forgetting about different animations when it comes to the camera placement. For instance, just to be silly, some people may place the camera on the palm of the creature's hand. How will the animations work? When the creature closes its hand, the camera is blocked. You have to have certain parts of the creature that a camera can't be placed on, like the hands or legs. You would have very messed up animations.

I like the idea of placing the camera wherever you want, though. You'd also have to have a test mode to see how it looks while placing the camera, because the player would want to know where the camera allows them to see...
Basically, if the player does something stupid, they'll have to fix it.

Then that means that camera placement has to be accessible from in-game, like Uteen said.
Or we could force first person testing before saving an org as playable.

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Dudeman
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PostSubject: Re: Gameplay person display   Sun Apr 10, 2011 8:37 pm

~sciocont wrote:
Dudeman wrote:
~sciocont wrote:
Dudeman wrote:
You all are forgetting about different animations when it comes to the camera placement. For instance, just to be silly, some people may place the camera on the palm of the creature's hand. How will the animations work? When the creature closes its hand, the camera is blocked. You have to have certain parts of the creature that a camera can't be placed on, like the hands or legs. You would have very messed up animations.

I like the idea of placing the camera wherever you want, though. You'd also have to have a test mode to see how it looks while placing the camera, because the player would want to know where the camera allows them to see...
Basically, if the player does something stupid, they'll have to fix it.

Then that means that camera placement has to be accessible from in-game, like Uteen said.
Or we could force first person testing before saving an org as playable.

True, but then players couldn't change the view when it comes to different circumstances. For instance, when you're being hunted you might want some sort of way to know where the predator is behind you, by moving the camera around.

Also, remember that certain animations will need to work lifelike, no matter which person you're playing in. In Spore, the jumping was... Fake. It didn't look realistic enough to actually be believable. In this, especially in first person, you guys will have to remember that certain limbs move in certain ways, like how your head tilts backward when you're in the air, compared to when you're standing still. So the camera will be moved around, too, when you jump. Just saying...
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~sciocont
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PostSubject: Re: Gameplay person display   Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:02 pm

Dudeman wrote:
~sciocont wrote:
Dudeman wrote:
~sciocont wrote:
Dudeman wrote:
You all are forgetting about different animations when it comes to the camera placement. For instance, just to be silly, some people may place the camera on the palm of the creature's hand. How will the animations work? When the creature closes its hand, the camera is blocked. You have to have certain parts of the creature that a camera can't be placed on, like the hands or legs. You would have very messed up animations.

I like the idea of placing the camera wherever you want, though. You'd also have to have a test mode to see how it looks while placing the camera, because the player would want to know where the camera allows them to see...
Basically, if the player does something stupid, they'll have to fix it.

Then that means that camera placement has to be accessible from in-game, like Uteen said.
Or we could force first person testing before saving an org as playable.

True, but then players couldn't change the view when it comes to different circumstances. For instance, when you're being hunted you might want some sort of way to know where the predator is behind you, by moving the camera around.

Also, remember that certain animations will need to work lifelike, no matter which person you're playing in. In Spore, the jumping was... Fake. It didn't look realistic enough to actually be believable. In this, especially in first person, you guys will have to remember that certain limbs move in certain ways, like how your head tilts backward when you're in the air, compared to when you're standing still. So the camera will be moved around, too, when you jump. Just saying...
That's why you can toggle between 3rd and first person.

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Dudeman
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PostSubject: Re: Gameplay person display   Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:08 pm

~sciocont wrote:
That's why you can toggle between 3rd and first person.

I know... I'm just trying to find a reason to use Uteen's idea.

How about a forced camera placement PLUS a camera placement available through the options menu? That way everybody is happy and the players are always able to change it if they don't like it.
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The Uteen
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PostSubject: Re: Gameplay person display   Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:53 am

~sciocont wrote:
Or we could force first person testing before saving an org as playable.
Something in that sentence caught my attention. Try to guess what.

But really? Force them to? If they do something stupid, isn't it noticeable anyway? What if they just want to tweak a creature, perhaps change its digestive system slightly, will they really have to go into test mode again? And, the very big important thing, some people don't use first person. Why enslave them to the curse of obsessive testing, too? And can't the player just return to the editor if they find the camera doesn't work properly anyway? And can I stop giving examples in the form of questions to prove my point? Have I asked that question before? Has every sentence in this paragraph really been a question? The thing is, I just don't really see the point in forcing them to do it. A test option would be enough. Those who do use first person and haven't the sense to use it can just go back into the editor when they find out they messed it up. I think you need saving from the bottomless chasm of overwhelming power, into which you are about to begin falling for eternity; think of the player, think of what you would have wanted when you first joined and tell me we should force them to test the camera every time!

In case you haven't guessed yet, I'm not entirely happy with that something.
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PostSubject: Re: Gameplay person display   Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:17 pm

How about only having a test run when you actually move the camera? If you're adjusting the toenails and the camera is sitting on the creature's forehead, you aren't going to need to re-check every time you go into the editor. If you put the camera in the creature's ear in order to get it out of the way and adjust the forehead, however, you're going to need to test the camera. Or just have your creature going around while you admire the view from it's earlobe, and fix it later.

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PostSubject: Re: Gameplay person display   Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:17 pm

Anyone here played Mount and Blade? Their first person mode was just a sticker placement camara with no fading out. Looked perfectly fine.

Also, I'm with Uteen. Make it accessable in gmeplay options. Easiest way, does punish the player is they mess up, etc.
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PostSubject: Re: Gameplay person display   Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:12 pm

all right then, put it in gameplay options.

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PostSubject: Re: Gameplay person display   Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:12 pm

Tenebrarum wrote:
Also, I'm with Uteen. Make it accessable in gmeplay options. Easiest way, does punish the player is they mess up, etc.

I agree. There still has to be a way to look at it through the editor, of course. I think that maybe we could do it in the test drive mode. You would have three buttons in the test drive, to change between first person, third, and camera placement. Then, of course, we would have an option for those during gameplay, too...
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