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 When do SCs form?

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Tenebrarum
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PostSubject: When do SCs form?   Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:05 pm

Early after sentience, when I'm dealing with a tiny tribe of only about 30 different organisms, I would actually be thoroughly PO'd if suddenly things jumped to SC format and I was no longer directly interveining in the lives of this group that I had become so fond of. Being able to actually follow around my little guys and see exactly what they need would be something I'd greatly enjoy.

So basically, how many organisms need to be in one place before it pops into an SC, and will be warned? If so, how?
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toxiciron
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PostSubject: Re: When do SCs form?   Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:09 pm

well, the plan is that every stage in this game will be seamless, so i'm guessing this means that at, say, population 74, you are a tribe. at population 75, you are now CONSIDERED a SC, but nothing changes until you implement them... unlike spore... puke... i wonder if there is a way to successfully meld the two words.

spuke?
spruke?
idk
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US_of_Alaska
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PostSubject: Re: When do SCs form?   Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:17 am

I suggest that 100 population would be best, but also have a "building" (which just means TO tagged with building) count of 50, all within a kilometre. Alternatively, it could be when there are two settlements of 50 population and 25 buildings more than a kilometre apart, to accommodate for the horizontal rather than vertical empire builders. How does that sound to everyone?
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Commander Keen
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PostSubject: Re: When do SCs form?   Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:23 am

US_of_Alaska wrote:
I suggest that 100 population would be best, but also have a "building" (which just means TO tagged with building) count of 50, all within a kilometre. Alternatively, it could be when there are two settlements of 50 population and 25 buildings more than a kilometre apart, to accommodate for the horizontal rather than vertical empire builders. How does that sound to everyone?

Building requirement seems superfluous, or just too high.
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PostSubject: Re: When do SCs form?   Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:44 am

Didn't someone say somewhere that a SC would be a group of buildings that the player grouped together? I think would be okay and let the player go at their own pace, and it's fairly seamless.
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Commander Keen
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PostSubject: Re: When do SCs form?   Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:17 pm

The Uteen wrote:
Didn't someone say somewhere that a SC would be a group of buildings that the player grouped together? I think would be okay and let the player go at their own pace, and it's fairly seamless.

If the requirement is buildings, then you will still have control in ghost towns.
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PostSubject: Re: When do SCs form?   Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:56 pm

Commander Keen wrote:
The Uteen wrote:
Didn't someone say somewhere that a SC would be a group of buildings that the player grouped together? I think would be okay and let the player go at their own pace, and it's fairly seamless.

If the requirement is buildings, then you will still have control in ghost towns.

Well... If a SC has 0 people, everyone's control should drop to 0%.
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Commander Keen
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PostSubject: Re: When do SCs form?   Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:17 pm

The Uteen wrote:
Well... If a SC has 0 people, everyone's control should drop to 0%.

Still, it doesn't make sense to have a Society centre when there aren't people in here.
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Tenebrarum
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PostSubject: Re: When do SCs form?   Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:59 pm

US_of_Alaska wrote:
I suggest that 100 population would be best, but also have a "building" (which just means TO tagged with building) count of 50, all within a kilometre. Alternatively, it could be when there are two settlements of 50 population and 25 buildings more than a kilometre apart, to accommodate for the horizontal rather than vertical empire builders. How does that sound to everyone?

That sounds good, but what if someone built a massive communal structure? I personally had a habit in Spore of making largish streets instead of induvidual buildings.
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PostSubject: Re: When do SCs form?   Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:11 pm

The player should gain more functions of a SC as the population increases, and based on their current researches (such as having or not having highly organized democracy).
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PostSubject: Re: When do SCs form?   Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:56 pm

why should there be building requirements? what if the creature hates the thought of buildings and doesn't want to go in that direction (sarcasm, kinda)?

after all, some native tribes had large huts which held up to 30 people.

EDIT: I realize that's not really a relevant point, but that would equate to 3 buildings for 100 people, and that is quite far from 50. unless you meant one building per mate pair.
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US_of_Alaska
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PostSubject: Re: When do SCs form?   Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:28 am

All the anti-building arguments make sense (Well, maybe not your original one, Toxic...). So i'm happy to remove it and just have a population count. That is, as long as we have a research that allows SCs to form. Suggestions on an appropriate research would be helpful.
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PostSubject: Re: When do SCs form?   Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:43 am

A research having something to do with making settlements... um... Settlements research?
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PostSubject: Re: When do SCs form?   Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:37 pm

Commander Keen wrote:
The Uteen wrote:
Well... If a SC has 0 people, everyone's control should drop to 0%.

Still, it doesn't make sense to have a Society centre when there aren't people in here.
A SC could easily be returned to or reused by another population.

The SC could stop being a SC when 70% of the included structures (does not have to be building, could be hive or something ) have been demolished or fallen apart (I'd say classed as fallen apart or demolished when 80% of structure is not in correct place).

And SC allowing research...

I like settlements, but maybe it could be a bit broader... Collective residence?
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Commander Keen
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PostSubject: Re: When do SCs form?   Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:32 pm

The Uteen wrote:
A SC could easily be returned to or reused by another population.

Still, the original society centre dies and a new one is created. It should be the same with our SCs.

The Uteen wrote:
And SC allowing research...

I like settlements, but maybe it could be a bit broader... Collective residence?

Collective residence, sounds good.
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US_of_Alaska
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PostSubject: Re: When do SCs form?   Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:52 pm

Commander Keen wrote:
The Uteen wrote:
A SC could easily be returned to or reused by another population.

Still, the original society centre dies and a new one is created. It should be the same with our SCs.

The Uteen wrote:
And SC allowing research...

I like settlements, but maybe it could be a bit broader... Collective residence?

Collective residence, sounds good.
First argument: see Sumeria and Babylonia.

Second: Collective Residence sounds good. I'll try putting it into the Research List.
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gabbe
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PostSubject: Re: When do SCs form?   Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:11 am

I think that the AI should be able by itself to place buildings within a certain range, making the game proceed slowly but partially in the players control. Main buildings should be entirely human controlled though. I might give it a go if I could find the civ. code...ive downloaded the whole tarball but..
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Commander Keen
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PostSubject: Re: When do SCs form?   Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:34 am

US_of_Alaska wrote:

First argument: see Sumeria and Babylonia.

Maybe we should gray out the SC when its empty, and delete it after some time. This could give people time to restore the SC.
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GamerXA
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PostSubject: Re: When do SCs form?   Thu Oct 14, 2010 5:21 pm

I agree with Commander Keen.
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US_of_Alaska
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PostSubject: Re: When do SCs form?   Thu Oct 14, 2010 5:36 pm

Commander Keen wrote:
US_of_Alaska wrote:

First argument: see Sumeria and Babylonia.

Maybe we should gray out the SC when its empty, and delete it after some time. This could give people time to restore the SC.
Okay, deal.
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bill2505
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PostSubject: Re: When do SCs form?   Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:18 pm

i dont thing that they should be restriction to city building except the cost .
maybe as someoe mentioned having a reasearch like colonization .this tech should br a bit expensive and with every time you reasearch you can build one more city(every time the cost gets a bit highter) and after a hight lvl is researched it may give more cities to build
for example

1-20 lvl-1 city every research
20-30 = 2 cities
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PostSubject: Re: When do SCs form?   Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:24 pm

In real life a nation doesn't need to do anything besides spend the necessary resources to build a city. Researching shouldn't simply increase arbitrary limits placed on things. Perhaps there could be some sort of logistics factor that makes it more difficult to maintain more cities, but a research just to raise an arbitrary cap on something doesn't fit well with the realism side of the game.
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bill2505
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PostSubject: Re: When do SCs form?   Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:53 am

Xenopologist wrote:
In real life a nation doesn't need to do anything besides spend the necessary resources to build a city. Researching shouldn't simply increase arbitrary limits placed on things. Perhaps there could be some sort of logistics factor that makes it more difficult to maintain more cities, but a research just to raise an arbitrary cap on something doesn't fit well with the realism side of the game.
y.and who said that something that is not 100 realistic is wrong(the planets are going to be smaller that earth in the game thats not realistic but realism is sacrificed for playability(just my oppinion) .it
may not be the best realistic way but it will keep the player from building cities .of course your way should work too. to have upkeep .every city should cost money.except that it would require at industrial age electricity (oil) and some other factors like the most population you have you lose productivity and you have to reasearch a technology to raise it
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Hallowed_Are_The_Ori
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PostSubject: Re: When do SCs form?   Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:03 am

I agree with upkeep. Cities and buildings need to be maintained and it costs resources to do so.
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Commander Keen
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PostSubject: Re: When do SCs form?   Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:10 pm

There is only a single thing that determines the possible amount of cities: population. You have to feed people somehow, and cities aren't exactly the best producers of food. Agricultural villages and towns are a better choice. That's the limiting factor.

I agree with upkeep, though it's not something preventing players to build things they want, more like preventing them to waste resources on absolutely useless things. Players should also be able to stop upkeep for TOs/SCs, but these would slowly take damage then.
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