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 Questions on the Periodic Table

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MassimoV
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PostSubject: Questions on the Periodic Table   Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:15 pm

I was just wondering how the periodic table would effect the chemical role in gameplay. To start, if a race invents a cyclotron, could you edit the table to have an extra line or insert? Also, would you name the new elements and element 113 through 118? Aswell as would we call element 112 Ununbium or Copernicium? Plus, would there be an island of stability around 120 or 122? Calculations have proven it might be possible. One more thing, from a gameplay stand point, should we process the atom selection before fusion by first choosing a target atom and then a projectile atom, and should we make new element's atomic number the sum of the two starting atoms? Just some things I was thinking about.
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Poisson
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Periodic Table   Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:44 pm

I think that all elements should just keep their names, and as new properties and elements are discovered, we should release the appropriate updates.

As to the naming of elements like ununbium => Copernicum, the former is simply a placeholder, so Copernicum would be the name we use.

Making new elements? I don't know if we should do that. We don't know what is going to work and what won't, so for realism's sake I think we should wait for real data.
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MassimoV
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PostSubject: response to post   Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:25 pm

I meant for the renaming of 112 to 118, not all of them. And thanks for the feedback.
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Poisson
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Periodic Table   Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:07 am

MassimoV wrote:
I meant for the renaming of 112 to 118, not all of them. And thanks for the feedback.
I'm guessing it was accident, but please don't make a new thread for each answer to a topic.

Ah, that's what you meant. I personally think it would be better to just leave the names as is.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Periodic Table   Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:00 am

names as it is, changing to random names is possible as long as you can see the real ones in the list. The form of it will change over time and such (i have a phisics lesson bout that today so it's easier if i answer later). But if we take the fact that noble gases take longer to discover then we need a chronology. The new elelments are discovered the stronger the cylclotron is, and the stability island is in element 126. We should allow the players to discover new elements but with the box (this is a extremely radioactive and short lived element, it's impossible to know furthermore) if people click help they'd get linked to the wikipedia's page on the periodic table or such....
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Periodic Table   Thu Nov 04, 2010 12:51 pm

Id imagine you would see the periodic table on something like a resource menu. Elements you have not discovered are shrouded in black smoke, meaning you cant see them. On elements you have discovered, you see your races name for it, its real name, and various other things like atomic weight once it has been discovered.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Periodic Table   Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:40 pm

yes! a atomic model should be shown on top, changing with the advancement of time. when you have no elements discovered the menu shouldnt be accessible, and when you have that earth/fire/air/water element idea, those should be the ones shown, till you discover they are not
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The Uteen
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Periodic Table   Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:03 pm

If we are including a periodic table, will we actually be programming all the different elements and compounds properties, along with possible reactions? If we are, will we then include temperatures for changing of states of matter, solubility, and basically give the game an A level knowledge of chemistry?
If we don't, but do include a periodic table, I'm sure people will have objections.
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Commander Keen
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Periodic Table   Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:22 pm

The Uteen wrote:
basically give the game an A level knowledge of chemistry
If we don't, but do include a periodic table, I'm sure people will have objections.

Why? If we include periodic table just as a reference without much gameplay impact (it isn't going to be used in TE or reserach), why would anyone have objections?

Also, why to include the species name to everything? If it is something that hasn't got it's English equivalent, then it's ok, but otherwise players will still use mostly English names.
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Poisson
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Periodic Table   Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:50 pm

Commander Keen wrote:
The Uteen wrote:
basically give the game an A level knowledge of chemistry
If we don't, but do include a periodic table, I'm sure people will have objections.

Why? If we include periodic table just as a reference without much gameplay impact (it isn't going to be used in TE or reserach), why would anyone have objections?

Also, why to include the species name to everything? If it is something that hasn't got it's English equivalent, then it's ok, but otherwise players will still use mostly English names.
Because the game needs to know how to actually make elements work.
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Commander Keen
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Periodic Table   Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:10 am

Poisson wrote:
Because the game needs to know how to actually make elements work.

Why would it? Unless you want to implement a simulation of chemical laboratory in the game, we just need to include relatively common compounds (including those rarer such as diamonds).
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The Uteen
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Periodic Table   Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:44 am

Commander Keen wrote:
The Uteen wrote:
basically give the game an A level knowledge of chemistry
If we don't, but do include a periodic table, I'm sure people will have objections.

Why? If we include periodic table just as a reference without much gameplay impact (it isn't going to be used in TE or reserach), why would anyone have objections?
Who's going to bother looking at it if they don't need to use it?

A player seeing that we included a periodic table wrote:
...
...
Uh hu...
...
I want some chocolate...
Mmmmm... Chocolatey goodness... *Drool*... I like lickin' chocolate 'til it's gone...

See what I mean? The super-mouse man in my head just isn't interested.
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Commander Keen
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Periodic Table   Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:34 pm

The Uteen wrote:
Commander Keen wrote:
Why? If we include periodic table just as a reference without much gameplay impact (it isn't going to be used in TE or reserach), why would anyone have objections?
Who's going to bother looking at it if they don't need to use it?

Then you have found a reason why including it would be pointless, it doesn't have to be included
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Poisson
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Periodic Table   Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:59 pm

Commander Keen wrote:
The Uteen wrote:
Commander Keen wrote:
Why? If we include periodic table just as a reference without much gameplay impact (it isn't going to be used in TE or reserach), why would anyone have objections?
Who's going to bother looking at it if they don't need to use it?

Then you have found a reason why including it would be pointless, it doesn't have to be included
Yeah, it's just a science game. Why would we need something as useless as *scoff* a periodic table? It's not like it has been any use at all to our species since it's development or anything. [/sarcasm]

Seriously? You are actually advocating that we do not include a periodic table?
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Tenebrarum
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Periodic Table   Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:10 pm

Poisson wrote:
Yeah, it's just a science game. Why would we need something as useless as *scoff* a periodic table? It's not like it has been any use at all to our species since it's development or anything. [/sarcasm]

Seriously? You are actually advocating that we do not include a periodic table?

If it has no effect on gameplay, or would be to hard to code, than yes. Certain things will have to be there, but the entire table will not be constantly going through the reactions it should.
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~sciocont
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Periodic Table   Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:39 pm

MassimoV wrote:
I was just wondering how the periodic table would effect the chemical role in gameplay. To start, if a race invents a cyclotron, could you edit the table to have an extra line or insert? Also, would you name the new elements and element 113 through 118? Aswell as would we call element 112 Ununbium or Copernicium? Plus, would there be an island of stability around 120 or 122? Calculations have proven it might be possible. One more thing, from a gameplay stand point, should we process the atom selection before fusion by first choosing a target atom and then a projectile atom, and should we make new element's atomic number the sum of the two starting atoms? Just some things I was thinking about.
We really don't need to concern ourselves with atomic properties, and 112-118 decay too quickly to be of any real use in gameplay, as do most very heavy elements. As a chemistry whiz, i'd love to have the game involve a little chemistry, but at this time, i really don't see the need to bring it up.

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Poisson
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Periodic Table   Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:23 pm

Tenebrarum wrote:
Poisson wrote:
Yeah, it's just a science game. Why would we need something as useless as *scoff* a periodic table? It's not like it has been any use at all to our species since it's development or anything. [/sarcasm]

Seriously? You are actually advocating that we do not include a periodic table?

If it has no effect on gameplay,
It certainly would.
Quote :
or would be to hard to code,
Okay, I can see what you're getting at there, and I think I remember a discussion about this before.
Quote :
than yes. Certain things will have to be there, but the entire table will not be constantly going through the reactions it should.
So what do you propose instead?
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US_of_Alaska
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Periodic Table   Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:15 am

Poisson wrote:
Tenebrarum wrote:
Poisson wrote:
Yeah, it's just a science game. Why would we need something as useless as *scoff* a periodic table? It's not like it has been any use at all to our species since it's development or anything. [/sarcasm]

Seriously? You are actually advocating that we do not include a periodic table?

If it has no effect on gameplay,
It certainly would.
Quote :
or would be to hard to code,
Okay, I can see what you're getting at there, and I think I remember a discussion about this before.
Quote :
than yes. Certain things will have to be there, but the entire table will not be constantly going through the reactions it should.
So what do you propose instead?
Making a game? We can't seriously simulate all the chemical reactions that happen at all points in the universe, Poisson. Else we wouldn't need anything else for this game.
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The Uteen
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Periodic Table   Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:59 am

I shall give an example...

A player sees the periodic table in our game, and thinks:
'Cool, the makers thought about elements and chemistry while making this game!'
That gets them thinking about chemistry,
'Hmm, I get some steel, now I heat it... What? No oxidisation? Rubbish! This is supposed to be realistic! Nothing works!'

Have I got my point across yet?
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~sciocont
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Periodic Table   Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:06 am

I can't think of any time the player would actually need a periodic table themselves- however, it should be a research item.

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Poisson
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Periodic Table   Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:42 pm

~sciocont wrote:
I can't think of any time the player would actually need a periodic table themselves- however, it should be a research item.
What would be required for it?
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Periodic Table   Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:43 pm

US_of_Alaska wrote:
Poisson wrote:
So what do you propose instead?
Making a game? We can't seriously simulate all the chemical reactions that happen at all points in the universe, Poisson. Else we wouldn't need anything else for this game.
Where did I say simulate every chemical reaction? We do need to have some chemistry going on.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Periodic Table   Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:11 pm

The only place it should be anywhere near a proper reaction is in the Tech Editor. ANd that would just calculate what is going on so that in-game, it can replicate the effect without having to have the conditions again. Make sense?
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Periodic Table   Sun Nov 07, 2010 1:40 am

US_of_Alaska wrote:
The only place it should be anywhere near a proper reaction is in the Tech Editor. ANd that would just calculate what is going on so that in-game, it can replicate the effect without having to have the conditions again. Make sense?
It does.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Periodic Table   Sun Nov 07, 2010 4:25 pm

Poisson wrote:
~sciocont wrote:
I can't think of any time the player would actually need a periodic table themselves- however, it should be a research item.
What would be required for it?
Research in atomic theory and chemistry.

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