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 Dyson Sphere?

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caekdaemon
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PostSubject: Dyson Sphere?   Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:03 am

Once we advance far enough in game, will it be possible to build a dyson sphere?

A dyson sphere, if you dont know what it is, is a giant sphere around a solar system, designed for A: To get maximum of the energy a star releases and B: Living in as a city?


So will it be possible, as well as the other Dyson ideas?
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The Uteen
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PostSubject: Re: Dyson Sphere?   Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:36 am

Hopefully, although I keep thinking its gravity could/would disrupt the orbit of the planets in the system... Could anyone prove me wrong?

Speaking of what I'm thinking, I keep thinking of the Dyson Ball. It is just coincidence, right? One big, strange, random coincidence..?
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PostSubject: Re: Dyson Sphere?   Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:45 am

The Uteen wrote:
Hopefully, although I keep thinking its gravity could/would disrupt the orbit of the planets in the system... Could anyone prove me wrong?

Speaking of what I'm thinking, I keep thinking of the Dyson Ball. It is just coincidence, right? One big, strange, random coincidence..?
The sphere wil disrupt more or less gravitation depending on the amount of matter in it. But yet it would need to be incredibly dense to disrupt anything such as a planet.
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Commander Keen
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PostSubject: Re: Dyson Sphere?   Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:43 pm

The Uteen wrote:
Hopefully, although I keep thinking its gravity could/would disrupt the orbit of the planets in the system... Could anyone prove me wrong?

Speaking of what I'm thinking, I keep thinking of the Dyson Ball. It is just coincidence, right? One big, strange, random coincidence..?

Dyson spheres lack volume, so unless they are built from something incredibly dense, gravity won't be an issue.

Also, I doubt Dyson spheres have something to do with vacuum cleaners
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caekdaemon
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PostSubject: Re: Dyson Sphere?   Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:02 pm

Commander Keen wrote:
The Uteen wrote:
Hopefully, although I keep thinking its gravity could/would disrupt the orbit of the planets in the system... Could anyone prove me wrong?

Speaking of what I'm thinking, I keep thinking of the Dyson Ball. It is just coincidence, right? One big, strange, random coincidence..?

Dyson spheres lack volume, so unless they are built from something incredibly dense, gravity won't be an issue.

Also, I doubt Dyson spheres have something to do with vacuum cleaners

Unless your civilization spans most of the universe and has a extreme demand for vacuum cleaner manufacturing facilities, I agree.

But how would you build one in game? Construction ships? And when would you gain the ability to build them?
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US_of_Alaska
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PostSubject: Re: Dyson Sphere?   Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:15 pm

That's a good question. You'd design it in the TE, but then actually placing it in your system may be tricky. I suppose you would just select it to be built through a ship that has worker tags. Then place it, making sure you don't run too close to any planetary orbits, then task millions of worker ships onto the object in construction.
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caekdaemon
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PostSubject: Re: Dyson Sphere?   Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:26 pm

US_of_Alaska wrote:
That's a good question. You'd design it in the TE, but then actually placing it in your system may be tricky. I suppose you would just select it to be built through a ship that has worker tags. Then place it, making sure you don't run too close to any planetary orbits, then task millions of worker ships onto the object in construction.
But where do you get the resources? Strip mining planets?

But is 1 dyson sphere = X number of planets required to build it in value?
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US_of_Alaska
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PostSubject: Re: Dyson Sphere?   Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:30 pm

caekdaemon wrote:
US_of_Alaska wrote:
That's a good question. You'd design it in the TE, but then actually placing it in your system may be tricky. I suppose you would just select it to be built through a ship that has worker tags. Then place it, making sure you don't run too close to any planetary orbits, then task millions of worker ships onto the object in construction.
But where do you get the resources? Strip mining planets?

But is 1 dyson sphere = X number of planets required to build it in value?
It'll cost as much resources as the player makes it cost...

And it's not our problem where the player gets the resources for it from, they can figure that out themselves.
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eumesmo
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PostSubject: Re: Dyson Sphere?   Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:39 pm

they could use self replicating nanites..... i think that size should be taken care by cost. it's like the GigaFLOP cost over time. a gigaFLOP pc in the 60s would cost trilions.....
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Xenopologist
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PostSubject: Re: Dyson Sphere?   Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:59 pm

eumesmo wrote:
self replicating nanites

Self-replicating nanites still need materials with which to build more nanites.

The player will figure out most of this on their own. If they want to build a Dyson sphere, it's on them to figure out how to go about doing such a thing.
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Commander Keen
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PostSubject: Re: Dyson Sphere?   Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:02 am

Xenopologist wrote:
Self-replicating nanites still need materials with which to build more nanites.

By the time you have selfreplicating nanites resistant enough to be of actual use on something as big as a dyson structure, matter creation is most probably also going to be more advanced, providing necessary materials for construction.

Xenopologist wrote:
The player will figure out most of this on their own. If they want to build a Dyson sphere, it's on them to figure out how to go about doing such a thing.

But it's our task to make it possible without too much micromanaging.

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PostSubject: Re: Dyson Sphere?   Sun Nov 07, 2010 4:52 pm

You'd probably have to start with a Dyson ring, then keep making rings until you get a dyson cloud, which would provide a scaffolding for the eventual dyson sphere. A dyson sphere is basically a gigantic bubble, so it won't crush itself down because its own gravity provides it with something akin to a bubble's surface tension.
Dyson Spheres

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PostSubject: Re: Dyson Sphere?   Sun Nov 07, 2010 5:08 pm

Commander Keen wrote:
, matter creation is most probably also going to be more advanced, providing necessary materials for construction.

Matter cannot be created or destroyed. Only altered.
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PostSubject: Re: Dyson Sphere?   Sun Nov 07, 2010 5:11 pm

Tenebrarum wrote:
Commander Keen wrote:
, matter creation is most probably also going to be more advanced, providing necessary materials for construction.

Matter cannot be created or destroyed. Only altered.

Incorrect. The law of conservation of matter doesn't quite apply perfectly, because of relativity. Matter can be converted into energy, and vice versa. However, it's pretty difficult to do. It takes a nuclear reaction to turn matter into energy, and almost unimaginable amounts of power to make matter from energy.

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US_of_Alaska
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PostSubject: Re: Dyson Sphere?   Sun Nov 07, 2010 5:12 pm

Commander Keen wrote:
Xenopologist wrote:
Self-replicating nanites still need materials with which to build more nanites.

By the time you have selfreplicating nanites resistant enough to be of actual use on something as big as a dyson structure, matter creation is most probably also going to be more advanced, providing necessary materials for construction.

Xenopologist wrote:
The player will figure out most of this on their own. If they want to build a Dyson sphere, it's on them to figure out how to go about doing such a thing.

But it's our task to make it possible without too much micromanaging.

It's not our job to tell them where to get the resources, which is what i'm saying. We'll give them the tech Editor and the ability to build things with worker units, they can surely figure out the rest.
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Commander Keen
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PostSubject: Re: Dyson Sphere?   Sun Nov 07, 2010 5:17 pm

AsDMIN wrote:
It takes a nuclear reaction to turn matter into energy, and almost unimaginable amounts of power to make matter from energy.

With current methods, true. However, there are some mass matter creation theories, rated about as probable as FTL travel.

Quote :
It's not our job to tell them where to get the resources, which is what i'm saying. We'll give them the tech Editor and the ability to build things with worker units, they can surely figure out the rest.

Yes, not pointing them to resources is good, but if you want players to manually put one satellite around a star at a time, it's going to take hours.
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~sciocont
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PostSubject: Re: Dyson Sphere?   Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:09 pm

Commander Keen wrote:
AsDMIN wrote:
It takes a nuclear reaction to turn matter into energy, and almost unimaginable amounts of power to make matter from energy.

With current methods, true. However, there are some mass matter creation theories, rated about as probable as FTL travel.

Quote :
It's not our job to tell them where to get the resources, which is what i'm saying. We'll give them the tech Editor and the ability to build things with worker units, they can surely figure out the rest.

Yes, not pointing them to resources is good, but if you want players to manually put one satellite around a star at a time, it's going to take hours.
But that's not bad at all, considering the scale of the tech they are attempting to create.

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Commander Keen
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PostSubject: Re: Dyson Sphere?   Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:29 am

Quote :
~sciocont wrote:
Yes, not pointing them to resources is good, but if you want players to manually put one satellite around a star at a time, it's going to take hours.
But that's not bad at all, considering the scale of the tech they are attempting to create.

It should be quite a hard work, but who's going to make a TO for several hours straight? And remember that every civilization has to do it itself, so the player has to make it for every save.


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eumesmo
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PostSubject: Re: Dyson Sphere?   Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:55 am

seems to me much of a effort, the player should be able to fasten the process with the use of nanites...
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caekdaemon
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PostSubject: Re: Dyson Sphere?   Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:57 pm

Unless of course you make a Dyson bubble first, or a dyson swarm. That would cut down on the time needed to build it, but would reduce living space I believe.

There are smaller versions of dyson spheres aswell, Planet size, Gas Giant size then solar system. Then they get bigger to Black hole size, and lastly Galaxy Sized.

Dont even know why you would want a galaxy sized dyson sphere... Dont think its possible either.
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eumesmo
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PostSubject: Re: Dyson Sphere?   Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:03 pm

i see lots of problems in a galaxy sized dyson, like temperature, not to speak about raw materials and processing power
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PostSubject: Re: Dyson Sphere?   Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:17 pm

[awfuljoke] Maybe they could be used as weapons and be created around a planet, then create a dyson vacuum inside, suffocating the inhabitants! [/awfuljoke]

Joking aside (for now), where to get the resources?

Self-replicating nano-bots, resistant to extreme temperature, could, in short, eat a solar system?
If you can't get something that resistant... EXTREMELY tough nano-bots that could dive into a black hole and eat it? They really would have to be resistant to survive that pressure, though.
What else, what else... Planet eaters? Ooh! Ring eaters! No-one would miss some boring old rings... Saturns ring, for instance, could be made into a dyson sphere! Maybe they could eat the asteroid belt?
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PostSubject: Re: Dyson Sphere?   Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:21 pm

I think you would need a solar system worth of resources to make a dyson sphere of a solar size. That might make for a rather difficult thing to do.
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PostSubject: Re: Dyson Sphere?   Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:30 pm

caekdaemon wrote:
I think you would need a solar system worth of resources to make a dyson sphere of a solar size. That might make for a rather difficult thing to do.
It really depends on the build- the thickness of your sphere could potentially be very small, because you could use a carbon nanotube fabric stretched in between sattelites of a dyson bubble.

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PostSubject: Re: Dyson Sphere?   Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:31 pm

caekdaemon wrote:
I think you would need a solar system worth of resources to make a dyson sphere of a solar size. That might make for a rather difficult thing to do.
There are plenty of asteroids that come in and out of the solar system regularly, the universe won't miss those drifters if we take them, kill them and use their organs for the sake of our progress.
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