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  Awakening Summary

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Invader
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PostSubject: Awakening Summary   Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:47 pm

**ALL STAGES OF THRIVE WILL BE DYNAMIC; THERE WILL BE NO CUTSCENES OR SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENTS WHEN AN ADVANCE IS MADE. STAGE PROGRESSION HAPPENS STEADILY AND DYNAMICALLY.**


Basically, your organism has evolved a better conscience, and can now comprehend some minor building skills. They exibit some show of sapience. They are not to the point of towns and villages, but they are on their way. There are two milestones that would say that you are in this stage of development: complex tool use and fire. Mainly fire. Of course, a species that is evolving under the ocean would not be able to start a fire.



Strategy mode would also be unlocked some time during this stage of development. It would become available once there is at least one large tribe on your planet. It would allow you to command an entire government (or command a tribe) to declare war, form alliances, colonize, or whatever else you can think of. You are by no means obligated to do anything in Strategy mode; your species' history is yours/ the AI's to decide.


Last edited by InvaderZim on Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:20 pm; edited 7 times in total (Reason for editing : Typo)
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PostSubject: Re: Awakening Summary   Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:20 pm

I think this should be marked by tool use or fire.

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PostSubject: Re: Awakening Summary   Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:37 pm

~sciocont wrote:
I think this should be marked by tool use or fire.




Yeah. I'll add it to the OP.
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PostSubject: Re: Awakening Summary   Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:30 am

Actually COMPLEX tool use should mark this beggining Chimpanzees and birds are not sapient enough to build civilizations yet they can use tools. Also I don't remember scrapping underwater civs just yet, so fire shouldn't be a mark for an underwater civ. Complex tools should mark this. Such as bows, knife, two part tools (such as hammers, rock end, stick handle, held together by somthing(Twine, sap etc.)). This way civilizations can be built underwater (still limited by lack of metallurgy).

But the real question is, how should the creature discover these tools. We already have a being with a fully developed mind controlling the creature so they would know what to do. How do we going to make sue the person doesn't just pick up he right tolls and walk away with them?
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PostSubject: Re: Awakening Summary   Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:37 am

Falthron wrote:
Actually COMPLEX tool use should mark this beggining Chimpanzees and birds are not sapient enough to build civilizations yet they can use tools. Also I don't remember scrapping underwater civs just yet, so fire shouldn't be a mark for an underwater civ. Complex tools should mark this. Such as bows, knife, two part tools (such as hammers, rock end, stick handle, held together by somthing(Twine, sap etc.)). This way civilizations can be built underwater (still limited by lack of metallurgy).

But the real question is, how should the creature discover these tools. We already have a being with a fully developed mind controlling the creature so they would know what to do. How do we going to make sue the person doesn't just pick up he right tolls and walk away with them?
Quoted for win and truth.
I'm no sure how we can limit this- i think Complex tools would mean TE, so that would be unlocked mow as well.

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PostSubject: Re: Awakening Summary   Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:22 pm

~sciocont wrote:
Falthron wrote:
Actually COMPLEX tool use should mark this beggining Chimpanzees and birds are not sapient enough to build civilizations yet they can use tools. Also I don't remember scrapping underwater civs just yet, so fire shouldn't be a mark for an underwater civ. Complex tools should mark this. Such as bows, knife, two part tools (such as hammers, rock end, stick handle, held together by somthing(Twine, sap etc.)). This way civilizations can be built underwater (still limited by lack of metallurgy).

But the real question is, how should the creature discover these tools. We already have a being with a fully developed mind controlling the creature so they would know what to do. How do we going to make sue the person doesn't just pick up he right tolls and walk away with them?
Quoted for win and truth.
I'm no sure how we can limit this- i think Complex tools would mean TE, so that would be unlocked mow as well.



Wait- if we unlock TE at the beginning of complex tool use, what do we make simple tools with? Default generic tools (Spore)? I hope not.
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PostSubject: Re: Awakening Summary   Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:25 pm

InvaderZim wrote:
Wait- if we unlock TE at the beginning of complex tool use, what do we make simple tools with? Default generic tools (Spore)? I hope not.
Maybe the player has to create and use a tool using only the click-actions? Like 'pick up stick' and then 'hit with (held object: stick)' and maybe even 'sharpen (held object: stick)'. That's still not great, but it's better than no ideas.
I think that's pretty good, AK.
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PostSubject: Re: Awakening Summary   Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:32 pm

Middle mouse button,

[Drop]
[Sharpen]
[poke?]
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PostSubject: Re: Awakening Summary   Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:18 pm

US_of_Alaska wrote:
InvaderZim wrote:
Wait- if we unlock TE at the beginning of complex tool use, what do we make simple tools with? Default generic tools (Spore)? I hope not.
Maybe the player has to create and use a tool using only the click-actions? Like 'pick up stick' and then 'hit with (held object: stick)' and maybe even 'sharpen (held object: stick)'. That's still not great, but it's better than no ideas.
I think that's pretty good, AK.
Did someone accidentally hit Edit Post? Scio?
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PostSubject: Re: Awakening Summary   Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:58 am

US_of_Alaska wrote:
US_of_Alaska wrote:
InvaderZim wrote:
Wait- if we unlock TE at the beginning of complex tool use, what do we make simple tools with? Default generic tools (Spore)? I hope not.
Maybe the player has to create and use a tool using only the click-actions? Like 'pick up stick' and then 'hit with (held object: stick)' and maybe even 'sharpen (held object: stick)'. That's still not great, but it's better than no ideas.
I think that's pretty good, AK.
Did someone accidentally hit Edit Post? Scio?
D'oh.
I always hit that instead of quote. Sorry.

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PostSubject: Re: Awakening Summary   Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:53 pm

I was thinking maybe we can define sentience with the ability to form structured sentences,
this is something only humans and dophins seem to have. It is very important for complex
communication. It is also very important for brain storming.
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PostSubject: Re: Awakening Summary   Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:13 pm

PaperGrape wrote:
I was thinking maybe we can define sentience with the ability to form structured sentences,
this is something only humans and dophins seem to have. It is very important for complex
communication. It is also very important for brain storming.
It's not something only humans have, whale song is just as complex and is communicative.
Sentience is defined as "self-awareness" humans do not have it for several months after birth.
(a standard test for sentience is to take an animal, put a dot of paint on its head and put it in front of a mirror. A sentient animal will realize that the animal in the mirror is, in fact, itself, and try to get the paint of of itself. Of course, this isn't really meaningful to our game, just a bit of trivia.)

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PostSubject: Re: Awakening Summary   Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:21 pm

So... we will stick with the last plan on defining sentience? (Using fire/ Using complex tools)
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PostSubject: Re: Awakening Summary   Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:45 pm

InvaderZim wrote:
So... we will stick with the last plan on defining sentience? (Using fire/ Using complex tools)
Unless a better way is found, we will define it as tool usage.

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PostSubject: Re: Awakening Summary   Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:34 am

I really question the mirror test.One: It is assuming that vision is the animal's primary sense.
Two: I beg to say that I think my ferrets are aware that what they see in the mirror is themselves.
If they thought it was another ferret they would stare at it for hours.Many birds do this.My ferrets
do not.
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PostSubject: Re: Awakening Summary   Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:36 pm

PaperGrape wrote:
I really question the mirror test.One: It is assuming that vision is the animal's primary sense.
Two: I beg to say that I think my ferrets are aware that what they see in the mirror is themselves.
If they thought it was another ferret they would stare at it for hours.Many birds do this.My ferrets
do not.
I didn't mean for us to use it, it was just some trivia.

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PostSubject: Re: Awakening Summary   Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:44 am

InvaderZim wrote:


Basically, your organism has evolved a better conscience, and can now comprehend some minor building skills. They exibit some show of sapience. They are not to the point of towns and villages, but they are on their way. There are two milestones that would say that you are in this stage of development: complex tool use and fire. Mainly fire. Of course, a species that is evolving under the ocean would not be able to start a fire.
What is so important about fire? Not all species evolve at the same rate, one species might discover fire later than humans did.
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PostSubject: Re: Awakening Summary   Sat Aug 07, 2010 3:29 pm

other animals can make simple tools, but fire they cannot
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PostSubject: Re: Awakening Summary   Sat Aug 07, 2010 6:19 pm

The ability to make fire skyrocketed human development. Different cultures would not need exactly fire, but a similar milestone would be very important for them.
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PostSubject: Re: Awakening Summary   Sun Aug 08, 2010 1:00 am

Commander Keen wrote:
The ability to make fire skyrocketed human development. Different cultures would not need exactly fire, but a similar milestone would be very important for them.
Fire is an extremely important thing, because it brings a lot of destructive and creative power. With it, a species can shape a world.

Exactly. It doesn't always have to be fire. I like to think that this kind of event will only occur when the right mutation has come, and their brain has developed to the point where they see the environment in a different way, from a different perspective. Humans could have discovered breaking rock or crushing bone or stripping plants of their leaves as they did fire.

Wait...

...no...
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PostSubject: Re: Awakening Summary   Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:23 am

Commander Keen wrote:
The ability to make fire skyrocketed human development. Different cultures would not need exactly fire, but a similar milestone would be very important for them.

Fire is an extremely important thing, because it brings a lot of destructive and creative power. With it, a species can shape a world.

Hey, that last paragraph wasn't in my post when I last looked. Who did that edit?
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PostSubject: Re: Awakening Summary   Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:21 pm

Commander Keen wrote:
Commander Keen wrote:
The ability to make fire skyrocketed human development. Different cultures would not need exactly fire, but a similar milestone would be very important for them.

Fire is an extremely important thing, because it brings a lot of destructive and creative power. With it, a species can shape a world.

Hey, that last paragraph wasn't in my post when I last looked. Who did that edit?
Fire is an extremely important thing, because it brings a lot of destructive and creative power. With it, a species can shape a world.
Hit the wrong button.

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PostSubject: Re: Awakening Summary   Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:55 pm

Falthron wrote:


But the real question is, how should the creature discover these tools. We already have a being with a fully developed mind controlling the creature so they would know what to do. How do we going to make sue the person doesn't just pick up he right tolls and walk away with them?

Perhaps there could be a certian articulation level where the creation of tools is possible. For example, a chimpanze can grab a stick, but is unable to manipulate his hands to form fire. This articulation would prevent tool use before, but prevent suddenly having tools lying around as soon as the stage starts. Also, may I suggest some kind of tool editor? maybe this could be an extension to the organism editor... another part that could be turned on or off in game?
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PostSubject: Re: Awakening Summary   Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:04 pm

Slathazer wrote:
Falthron wrote:


But the real question is, how should the creature discover these tools. We already have a being with a fully developed mind controlling the creature so they would know what to do. How do we going to make sue the person doesn't just pick up he right tolls and walk away with them?

Perhaps there could be a certian articulation level where the creation of tools is possible. For example, a chimpanze can grab a stick, but is unable to manipulate his hands to form fire. This articulation would prevent tool use before, but prevent suddenly having tools lying around as soon as the stage starts. Also, may I suggest some kind of tool editor? maybe this could be an extension to the organism editor... another part that could be turned on or off in game?
A tool editor is possible through the TE, using gathered opjects as FPs.

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PostSubject: Re: Awakening Summary   Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:36 pm

~sciocont wrote:
Slathazer wrote:
Falthron wrote:


But the real question is, how should the creature discover these tools. We already have a being with a fully developed mind controlling the creature so they would know what to do. How do we going to make sue the person doesn't just pick up he right tolls and walk away with them?

Perhaps there could be a certian articulation level where the creation of tools is possible. For example, a chimpanze can grab a stick, but is unable to manipulate his hands to form fire. This articulation would prevent tool use before, but prevent suddenly having tools lying around as soon as the stage starts. Also, may I suggest some kind of tool editor? maybe this could be an extension to the organism editor... another part that could be turned on or off in game?
A tool editor is possible through the TE, using gathered opjects as FPs.

that would work. Perhaps the addition of the tool editor could be a prelude to the building editor. (is that called the tech editor?)
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