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 Space Stage movement dimensions?

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Demongoat
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PostSubject: Space Stage movement dimensions?   Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:04 am

Hey guys, just thought of something that was bugging me a bit.

What kind of dimensional movement scheme are you going for in Space Stage? The 3D-movement of games like Homeworld, the gravitational-movement of Spore's Space Stage, the top-down (blurgh) of Gratuitous Space Battles or the half-half of Empire at War?

Obviously, the last two are more realistic and easy, but the z-axis is always a good friend - especially in flanking, and I imagine you would be trying to deviate from Spore's format again.

Anyways, just a low-priority question and I understand if you haven't given it any thought.
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PostSubject: Re: Space Stage movement dimensions?   Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:20 am

3D
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PostSubject: Re: Space Stage movement dimensions?   Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:59 am

Yes, it will be 3D, we even have the control of Z axis done: click and hold mouse button and a slider will show up, moving the mouse than modifies the "altitude" of the movement (possible positive or negative).
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PostSubject: Re: Space Stage movement dimensions?   Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:22 am

Commander Keen wrote:
Yes, it will be 3D, we even have the control of Z axis done: click and hold mouse button and a slider will show up, moving the mouse than modifies the "altitude" of the movement (possible positive or negative).

That sounds just like Homeworld... Not that that's a bad thing, but it is a bad thing. I really didn't like that control scheme. What if you go into the z-axis choice but want to move on the other axises? You can't change them, you have to start again... Urgh. Anything but that.
I think the scroll wheel should navigate on that axis. But that could be zoom. CTRL + Scroll?

But please, not the Homeworld controls. I liked the game, but of the few things that bugged me about it, the height control was a big one. One of the other things that bugged me was the fact I couldn't get further than about 5 levels into the campaign. Wait... I didn't say that, stop calling me a noob.
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bill2505
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PostSubject: Re: Space Stage movement dimensions?   Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:34 am

The Uteen wrote:
Commander Keen wrote:
Yes, it will be 3D, we even have the control of Z axis done: click and hold mouse button and a slider will show up, moving the mouse than modifies the "altitude" of the movement (possible positive or negative).

That sounds just like Homeworld... Not that that's a bad thing, but it is a bad thing. I really didn't like that control scheme. What if you go into the z-axis choice but want to move on the other axises? You can't change them, you have to start again... Urgh. Anything but that.
I think the scroll wheel should navigate on that axis. But that could be zoom. CTRL + Scroll?

But please, not the Homeworld controls. I liked the game, but of the few things that bugged me about it, the height control was a big one. One of the other things that bugged me was the fact I couldn't get further than about 5 levels into the campaign. Wait... I didn't say that, stop calling me a noob.
i agree with you at least in the fact that the reason i quit many space games is because of bad controls
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PostSubject: Re: Space Stage movement dimensions?   Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:01 pm

After a short time not thinking about this subject, something occurred to me:

Couldn't we use the same controls as would be used with an organism in water and or air? In water, I think we were using scrolling. We certainly weren't using that click and hold thing.
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PostSubject: Re: Space Stage movement dimensions?   Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:11 pm

The Uteen wrote:
That sounds just like Homeworld... Not that that's a bad thing, but it is a bad thing. I really didn't like that control scheme. What if you go into the z-axis choice but want to move on the other axises? You can't change them, you have to start again... Urgh. Anything but that.

Actually, I took the idea from the Pacific Storm, where it worked pretty well (but that was combat over sea after all...). Haven't played Homeworld, so I can only judge from your experience.

The Uteen wrote:
I think the scroll wheel should navigate on that axis. But that could be zoom. CTRL + Scroll?

Well, I don't really see how's that different from mouse hold, except for having to hold ctrl.

Quote :
Couldn't we use the same controls as would be used with an organism in water and or air? In water, I think we were using scrolling. We certainly weren't using that click and hold thing.

Org. mode and Strategy mode controls aren't even comparable. In Org. mode, you move all the time with one organism, but in Strategy you need to quickly issue orders to multiple squads, and that's hard when you have to scroll all the time.
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PostSubject: Re: Space Stage movement dimensions?   Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:32 pm

Commander Keen wrote:
The Uteen wrote:
That sounds just like Homeworld... Not that that's a bad thing, but it is a bad thing. I really didn't like that control scheme. What if you go into the z-axis choice but want to move on the other axises? You can't change them, you have to start again... Urgh. Anything but that.

Actually, I took the idea from the Pacific Storm, where it worked pretty well (but that was combat over sea after all...). Haven't played Homeworld, so I can only judge from your experience.

The Uteen wrote:
I think the scroll wheel should navigate on that axis. But that could be zoom. CTRL + Scroll?

Well, I don't really see how's that different from mouse hold, except for having to hold ctrl.

Quote :
Couldn't we use the same controls as would be used with an organism in water and or air? In water, I think we were using scrolling. We certainly weren't using that click and hold thing.

Org. mode and Strategy mode controls aren't even comparable. In Org. mode, you move all the time with one organism, but in Strategy you need to quickly issue orders to multiple squads, and that's hard when you have to scroll all the time.
QFT
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~sciocont
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PostSubject: Re: Space Stage movement dimensions?   Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:41 pm

Ok, for strat mode cam in space, i recommend:
click and hold left mouse to pan
click and hold center to rotate (you should rotate around a fixed point, not the view of your camera)
click and hold right mouse to move the camera in a direction (using the same motion control as swimming or flying)

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PostSubject: Re: Space Stage movement dimensions?   Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:35 pm

~sciocont wrote:
Ok, for strat mode cam in space, i recommend:
click and hold left mouse to pan
click and hold center to rotate (you should rotate around a fixed point, not the view of your camera)
click and hold right mouse to move the camera in a direction (using the same motion control as swimming or flying)
WHAT about zooming in and out to the direction of the cross hare with the mouse scroll
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PostSubject: Re: Space Stage movement dimensions?   Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:21 pm

Post above is a good idea, but what about, say, holding 'Alt' and using the 'camera drag' button for the z-axis? Yea? Nay?
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PostSubject: Re: Space Stage movement dimensions?   Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:52 pm

Commander Keen wrote:
The Uteen wrote:
I think the scroll wheel should navigate on that axis. But that could be zoom. CTRL + Scroll?

Well, I don't really see how's that different from mouse hold, except for having to hold ctrl.

It's different because you can CTRL-scroll and then move it, CTRL-scroll again, move it again, then give the order. Mouse hold gives you one chance to get it right, and if you don't, you have to give the order and then find the location all over again.

Commander Keen wrote:
Quote :
Couldn't we use the same controls as would be used with an organism in water and or air? In water, I think we were using scrolling. We certainly weren't using that click and hold thing.

Org. mode and Strategy mode controls aren't even comparable. In Org. mode, you move all the time with one organism, but in Strategy you need to quickly issue orders to multiple squads, and that's hard when you have to scroll all the time.

It's harder when you can't choose the height while choosing the position in the other dimensions, that's splitting the destination selection into two stages, which isn't really a good idea, it'll put people off using the 3rd dimension to navigate.

...Since when was scrolling hard?
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PostSubject: Re: Space Stage movement dimensions?   Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:16 pm

Umm... Uteen, you do realize I was talking about giving commands to units, right? I'm starting to get a feeling you have camera controls on mind.

Edit: Now I see OP was talking about cam controls. Sorry about confusion.

Quote :
click and hold left mouse to pan
click and hold center to rotate (you should rotate around a fixed point, not the view of your camera)
click and hold right mouse to move the camera in a direction (using the same motion control as swimming or flying)

I approve, though camera should be moved with when Ctrl or Shift is pressed. Mouse is also needed to issue commands to units.
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PostSubject: Re: Space Stage movement dimensions?   Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:06 pm

Commander Keen wrote:
Umm... Uteen, you do realize I was talking about giving commands to units, right? I'm starting to get a feeling you have camera controls on mind.

Edit: Now I see OP was talking about cam controls. Sorry about confusion.

Quote :
click and hold left mouse to pan
click and hold center to rotate (you should rotate around a fixed point, not the view of your camera)
click and hold right mouse to move the camera in a direction (using the same motion control as swimming or flying)

I approve, though camera should be moved with when Ctrl or Shift is pressed. Mouse is also needed to issue commands to units.

What's the difference between panning and moving the camera in a direction?
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Demongoat
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PostSubject: Re: Space Stage movement dimensions?   Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:53 pm

Tenebrarum wrote:

What's the difference between panning and moving the camera in a direction?

A way of thinking.
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bill2505
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PostSubject: Re: Space Stage movement dimensions?   Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:25 pm

dont make the camera change with the shift or any button a mouse is enough,up mouse =up camera...(if someone dont have mouse with scroll button or something like this let him buy one its very cheap) in a rts camera should be easily moved and quickly thats the reason most rts move a mouse.
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PostSubject: Re: Space Stage movement dimensions?   Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:21 pm

Tenebrarum wrote:
Commander Keen wrote:
Umm... Uteen, you do realize I was talking about giving commands to units, right? I'm starting to get a feeling you have camera controls on mind.

Edit: Now I see OP was talking about cam controls. Sorry about confusion.

Quote :
click and hold left mouse to pan
click and hold center to rotate (you should rotate around a fixed point, not the view of your camera)
click and hold right mouse to move the camera in a direction (using the same motion control as swimming or flying)

I approve, though camera should be moved with when Ctrl or Shift is pressed. Mouse is also needed to issue commands to units.

What's the difference between panning and moving the camera in a direction?
Panning heeps your viewpoint on a plane (X,Y), moving actually moves your camera forward and allows for you to follow your cursor (Z,X,Y). See org mode swimming/ flying controls for how that part would work.

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The Uteen
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PostSubject: Re: Space Stage movement dimensions?   Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:24 pm

Commander Keen wrote:
Umm... Uteen, you do realize I was talking about giving commands to units, right? I'm starting to get a feeling you have camera controls on mind.

Edit: Now I see OP was talking about cam controls. Sorry about confusion.

I was talking about issuing commands too, although control scroll would be better suited to the camera, come to think of it. Although the thread title could mean either control, so I hadn't noticed it was off topic.

As for keyboard camera commands, if the arrow keys control the camera, then shift + up and down could move the camera on the z axis.
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PostSubject: Re: Space Stage movement dimensions?   Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:35 pm

The Uteen wrote:

As for keyboard camera commands, if the arrow keys control the camera, then shift + up and down could move the camera on the z axis.

Genius. But what about rotation? 3-Dimensional warfare in SPACE (sounds so awesome!) would just need rotation, even if it's just to see the epic at more angles.
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