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 What if your government falls?

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andry796
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PostSubject: What if your government falls?   Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:24 pm

After society stage we'll obviously have different parties, and one of these will gain political power.
Then, if this party (the one you "control") loses influence and another party gains power... what about strategy mode? You can't control a nation that isn't under your influence.

So, we can choose to ignore this and let the player control his nation anyway, or we can do this:

When your party loses power, you can't use strategy mode, or you can use it only partially.
Then the player should "use" org mode to control the party leader and try this way to get influence again.

What else?

Let's discuss here
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The Uteen
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PostSubject: Re: What if your government falls?   Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:57 pm

In strategy mode I thought you just assisted whatever party is in power as a sort of limited-god-like thing... So you aren't actually any specific party.
Some-one else will be able to explain this better.
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~sciocont
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PostSubject: Re: What if your government falls?   Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:36 pm

The real problem here isn't of parties, it's of a revolution or something. We shouldn't let the player control their government if it's been taken over by another force. They should have to regroup and rebuild, and either
-leave and create a new faction
-get high into the current government that replaced theirs
-try to take over the nation again

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bill2505
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PostSubject: Re: What if your government falls?   Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:55 pm

~sciocont wrote:
The real problem here isn't of parties, it's of a revolution or something. We shouldn't let the player control their government if it's been taken over by another force. They should have to regroup and rebuild, and either
-leave and create a new faction
-get high into the current government that replaced theirs
-try to take over the nation again
i agree with the first and the third but not the second ...if there are parties in game you cant be a capitalist and because you lost going with the communist.(this is too spor(e)ish for me
except the player also his followers should join him to retake the nation or creating a new one
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Mysterious_Calligrapher
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PostSubject: Re: What if your government falls?   Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:31 pm

No, 2 is good in scio's post. The amount of historical examples that come to mind is astounding. For example, Queen Victoria supported both the Whigs and the ... tories? Anyhow, whichever party it was politic to support - as in, whoever was in power and would support her in return.
In addition, we have governments like that of Argentina - not picking on argentinians at all - that at some points in history have had revolutions as stand-ins for elections. And while high-ranking political figures, like Juan Peron, have had to go into exile when they've fallen from power, people with less-politicized positions can hang on through many transfers of power, whether violent or no. The truth is, we need them to keep things running.
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bill2505
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PostSubject: Re: What if your government falls?   Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:55 pm

Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote:
No, 2 is good in scio's post. The amount of historical examples that come to mind is astounding. For example, Queen Victoria supported both the Whigs and the ... tories? Anyhow, whichever party it was politic to support - as in, whoever was in power and would support her in return.
In addition, we have governments like that of Argentina - not picking on argentinians at all - that at some points in history have had revolutions as stand-ins for elections. And while high-ranking political figures, like Juan Peron, have had to go into exile when they've fallen from power, people with less-politicized positions can hang on through many transfers of power, whether violent or no. The truth is, we need them to keep things running.
i forgot that in game you will not are going to play the leader of the party
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Mysterious_Calligrapher
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PostSubject: Re: What if your government falls?   Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:55 pm

We're a little further removed than that in strat, and org lets you choose whom you are.
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andry796
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PostSubject: Re: What if your government falls?   Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:41 am

The Uteen wrote:
In strategy mode I thought you just assisted whatever party is in power as a sort of limited-god-like thing... So you aren't actually any specific party.
Some-one else will be able to explain this better.

"whatever party" doesn't make sense: A party is made of ideals and if you always control your nation ideals are always the same .

And, we wont have real parties in game, they'll have procedurally generated traits and names, and will act differently.
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caekdaemon
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PostSubject: Re: What if your government falls?   Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:08 pm

What if your government type does not include parties?
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The Uteen
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PostSubject: Re: What if your government falls?   Sun Jan 23, 2011 6:35 am

andry796 wrote:
The Uteen wrote:
In strategy mode I thought you just assisted whatever party is in power as a sort of limited-god-like thing... So you aren't actually any specific party.
Some-one else will be able to explain this better.

"whatever party" doesn't make sense: A party is made of ideals and if you always control your nation ideals are always the same .

And, we wont have real parties in game, they'll have procedurally generated traits and names, and will act differently.

Hm. Ouch. If we give the player full control, then parties don't matter. If we make sure the parties matter, the player has little control. I think we need... A balance.

Now, I don't know much about politics, but... Um... Yeah.
I'll leave this thread for the more politically understanding, then.
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bill2505
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PostSubject: ````````````   Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:32 am

The Uteen wrote:
andry796 wrote:
The Uteen wrote:
In strategy mode I thought you just assisted whatever party is in power as a sort of limited-god-like thing... So you aren't actually any specific party.
Some-one else will be able to explain this better.

"whatever party" doesn't make sense: A party is made of ideals and if you always control your nation ideals are always the same .

And, we wont have real parties in game, they'll have procedurally generated traits and names, and will act differently.

Hm. Ouch. If we give the player full control, then parties don't matter. If we make sure the parties matter, the player has little control. I think we need... A balance.

Now, I don't know much about politics, but... Um... Yeah.
I'll leave this thread for the more politically understanding, then.
i thing that parties should matter but have minor part. i mean you have democracy and in the ellections you loose. who is going to wait the next ellections to win them or try to retake power.simple they are going to chose a non democratic goverment. thats the reason democracy should be both run and realistic to play and also people to have a reason to chose besides their own political belief.
hearts of iron 3 has included parties see this http://www.heartsofirongame.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=section&layout=blog&id=42&Itemid=90

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mike roberts
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PostSubject: Re: What if your government falls?   Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:28 am

also if someone else takes control of ur government u can throw a rebellion that would be nice to see
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US_of_Alaska
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PostSubject: Re: What if your government falls?   Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:55 pm

Has anyone read up on the Nation Editor? When you give more of the power slider to the people, sometimes they change things that you don't want changed, and in turn they are happier. Alternatively, if you're talking about elections, that will just change the likeliness of certain leader traits popping up.
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