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 Implementing Underwater Civilizations

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Aiosian_Doctor_Xenox
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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Wed May 29, 2013 6:47 pm

Well, it was worth a shot, I guess.

But, now that I look back, I guess you're right.

It is indeed a very difficult concept to articulate into something easy to use.
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WJacobC
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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Wed May 29, 2013 6:51 pm

Like I said, I'm glad you're being creative, but we also need to think of things that we can program into a game. We can't be so realistic as to get that kind of environment (I wish we could though...)

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Aiosian_Doctor_Xenox
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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Wed May 29, 2013 7:04 pm

What, no underwater caves?

Not even for aquatic stage?

CURSES! I was hoping to make like a subterranean critter that lived underground, but could hold it's breath like a wale so it could hunt in the water. .3.

Ahwell, Guess I'll have to stick with a realistic alien Pikachu.
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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Wed May 29, 2013 7:19 pm

I don't get it, whats the hype with this Underwater Civilization? We would get enough underwater experience with the fish stage anyway, there are much more exciting things to do with water than building civilization, like drowning people with tsunami waves.
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untrustedlife
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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Wed May 29, 2013 11:22 pm

Caves are a possibility. We hope to implement these (though it will be very tricky (due to the planet generation algorithm we hope to use)). However your idea would be way too hard to implement doctor.
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WilliamstheJohn
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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Thu May 30, 2013 5:21 am

No aquatic stage?
Belgium, that is one of reasons why im contributing to you.
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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Thu May 30, 2013 5:40 am

WilliamstheJohn wrote:
No aquatic stage?
Belgium, that is one of reasons why im contributing to you.

I think I'm right in saying there will be an aquatic stage (well, you can play as an aquatic creature during the organism stages), so I'm not sure where you got that from. What's being discussed here is whether an aquatic creature can build a civilisation. Marine life is a certainty in the game either way.

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Daniferrito
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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Thu May 30, 2013 6:31 am

As Oliver said, There will be underwater life. Even more, you will e forced to be underwater for the first part of the game (You start of as a free floating cell in the sea, evolve into a fish, and eventually are able to evolve out of the water if you wish).

The discusion here is if an underwater civilization can advance fully underwater, without uplifting or evolving as an hybrid (can life both under and over water). Advance means get to space, as a basic, stone-age-level underwater civilization is possible.
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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Thu May 30, 2013 6:43 am

Could caves be implemented by creating cave-"modules" that can be randomly put together? But we'd have to make many of those "modules" to keep the caves unique.
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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Thu May 30, 2013 6:48 am

That is one way. We have to decide still how are we going to handle storing the terrain. If it is a voxel-based system, we dont need any of those cave modules. If it is a heightmap, we will need something like that to handle anything that doesent fit a heightmap, like caves. That discussion, however, doesent go here.
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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Thu May 30, 2013 8:51 am

Yes there will be an aquatic stage, we just haven't figured out how to implement caves yet. Where did you get that idea from?
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Aiosian_Doctor_Xenox
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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Thu May 30, 2013 9:27 am

WJacobC wrote:
Like I said, I'm glad you're being creative, but we also need to think of things that we can program into a game. We can't be so realistic as to get that kind of environment (I wish we could though...)

From the last two sentences there, most likely.
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WilliamstheJohn
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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Thu May 30, 2013 10:09 am

Ops, i missundersod, sorry.
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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Thu May 30, 2013 10:41 am

By that I meant a cave that just happened to be oxygen filled and just happened to have plant roots hanging down and just happened to have flint inside. I in no way meant we won't have an aquatic stage, and aquatic stage is a neccesity for Thrive!

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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Thu May 30, 2013 12:49 pm

WJacobC wrote:
By that I meant a cave that just happened to be oxygen filled and just happened to have plant roots hanging down and just happened to have flint inside. I in no way meant we won't have an aquatic stage, and aquatic stage is a neccesity for Thrive!
Altough, I thought it would be a part of the normal "creature" stages..., that you just automaticly started as aquatic, and then you could either stay in the ocean, or go up to land, but still doing the same phase with the same names, except the 2 last phases wich wouldn't just be obtained for an aquatic player?
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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Thu May 30, 2013 12:54 pm

Exactly. Its just an option in the Awakening and Aware stages.

Anyway, this is going off-topic.

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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Thu May 30, 2013 12:55 pm

chease you can get to space with aquatic, you just need to be uplifted.
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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Thu May 30, 2013 1:25 pm

untrustedlife wrote:
chease you can get to space with aquatic, you just need to be uplifted.
I meant like normally obtained.
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Wiggin
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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Thu May 30, 2013 3:57 pm

Well, I thought my ideas were pretty good, but they would be something that's rare to evolve. Shouldn't these kinds of things still be in the game though? (I posted on page 15 somewhere.)
As far as fire and metals go, I think it's pretty impossible at this point and we need to think of something creative if underwater non-hybrids will be able to fully evolve.
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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Fri May 31, 2013 8:25 am

i have found the chemical. it does not occur in nature all that often except in salt traces that contain bauxite or something else, however on said alien worlds natural ores of it could be found. the solution is gallium with a melting point of 90 degrees Fahrenheit. i have solved the problem about metallurgy!!!! (at least i hope i did)
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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Fri May 31, 2013 10:04 am

Well, gallium does have a 90 degree melting point, however, it is only used for semiconducters and some alloys, so it would be useless to any early civilization.
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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Fri May 31, 2013 10:49 am

First off, gallium melts at 30ºC. Thats too low, as any kind of heat applied to it will make it melt, losing its shape, and so becoming useless again.

On top of that, gallium is not too strong. Similarly to a tool made out of lead, or gold, it will break after the second use.

Finally gallium is a bit toxic. While it is not too bad, prolonged contact starts to get problematic.
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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Fri May 31, 2013 10:59 am

Daniferrito wrote:
First off, gallium melts at 30ºC. Thats too low, as any kind of heat applied to it will make it melt, losing its shape, and so becoming useless again.

On top of that, gallium is not too strong. Similarly to a tool made out of lead, or gold, it will break after the second use.

Finally gallium is a bit toxic. While it is not too bad, prolonged contact starts to get problematic.

QFT
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scorpion268
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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Fri May 31, 2013 2:52 pm

i have figured it out then!

so there are certain species of bacteria that process metals, they basically absorb bits of it, eat from it, and release the parts they cant digest. so our aquatic species could without knowing it, somehow take advantage of these symbiotically and work metals without fire or some other source of heat.
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EnergyKnife
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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:24 pm

scorpion268 wrote:
so there are certain species of bacteria that process metals, they basically absorb bits of it, eat from it, and release the parts they cant digest. so our aquatic species could without knowing it, somehow take advantage of these symbiotically and work metals without fire or some other source of heat.
I think the major problem with your idea is that they would just process it into a differently shapes hunk of useless metal. Just because you can change metal doesn't mean you can change it into what you want.
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