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 Implementing Underwater Civilizations

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penumbra espinosa
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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Sun May 20, 2012 11:15 am

MeowMan1 wrote:
Holomanga wrote:
In Star Maker by Olaf Stapledon, an aquatic species becomes civilised and produces technology through a symbiosis with a land species. To what extent would this be possible?
I don't know but I just want to say that if there really IS no possible way in real life, then why not add a TINY bit of sci-fi? I mean it can't hurt right, Holomanga?

that's what i have been suggesting, also because organic-technnology sounds so cool for and evolution based game, i want to ride a bioship or some sort of Zerg-like alien species.

extreme neoteny is the most close i can get to that, just need to make it plausible if we can skip the real life stuff and give it some sci fi in it...
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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Sun May 20, 2012 12:26 pm

Even if we can't get the concept watertight (exuse the obvious pun) enough for us to make given the constraints of actual physics doesn't mean someone won't mod it in, guys.

Electric eel voltage (via Hunter's organ, the only one that produces high voltages) is here:
Wikipedia wrote:

In the electric eel, some 5,000 to 6,000 stacked electroplaques are capable of producing a shock at up to 500 volts and 1 ampere of current (500 watts). Such a shock could be deadly for an adult human. (Electrocution death is due to current flow; with the level of current that can be fatal in humans depending on the path that the electric current takes through the human body; human heart fibrillation (which is reversible via a heart defibrillator) can take place from currents ranging from 70 to 700 mA and higher.

I remember that when we did electrolysis in chem we were in the range of 1 amp, but where would you hook the wires to on an eel? Also, their "zapping" is quite brief, according to the same article the preferred method of capturing them is to aggravate them enough to zap multiple times, until they are exhausted. They do not produce constant current, which is necessary for electrolysis.

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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Sun May 20, 2012 12:55 pm

Just now i finished s theme that concerns the underwater world. Do you like ?



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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Mon May 21, 2012 10:38 am

Suitably Deep.

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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Mon May 21, 2012 4:34 pm

Anyone else think We should use this? I do...
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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Mon May 21, 2012 6:58 pm

(For Metal thingy on moddb)


What about under water caves with a volcano in the cave? Also, us humans have managed to breath underwater right?(I mean using air bottle,etc.) Using the system aquarium works (Doesnt even have to use electricity, just a manual thing that you turn to make the water have some air in it and thats all,even if you wanted electricity just use those electric fish), they could basicly make something to go outside the water (Using dead bodies/wood/rocks,etc they have everything they could need to make it, to move they could use a wheel systems, with rocks and stuff they have under water, that is if they cant walk of course)

Also using underwater pressure with compressed gas (of course in a sort of controlled environnement), they could make fire (pressure makes the temperature go up right?)
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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Mon May 21, 2012 10:28 pm

Nope, read the thread.

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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Tue May 22, 2012 1:13 pm

I had another idea ... maybe wrong but I try. While some planets have an active volcanic action beneath the earth's crust may escape from the flaming geysers ground, to cross (well maybe not completely) the layer of water on the planet?

In this way, even at very low depths where the geysers are very hot, these creatures can not work the metali? Maybe those who can not work at very high temperatures. What do you think?


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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Tue May 22, 2012 6:29 pm

Molten rock solidifies when it hits water, the temperature change causes an instantaneous phase change and the minerals within crystallize- this is why lava flows underwater look like this:

And again if there's a superhot patch of molten rock, the water around it is going to be very hot as well.

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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Wed May 23, 2012 1:09 am

~sciocont wrote:
Molten rock solidifies when it hits water, the temperature change causes an instantaneous phase change and the minerals within crystallize- this is why lava flows underwater look like this:

And again if there's a superhot patch of molten rock, the water around it is going to be very hot as well.

Maybe in different planets from the earth geophysics is different.

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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Wed May 23, 2012 4:58 pm

Physics is always the same, regardless of where you are.*

*this may not be technically true, but no evidence has yet confirmed that areas of the universe may have different constants

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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Wed May 23, 2012 5:09 pm

~sciocont wrote:
Physics is always the same, regardless of where you are.*

*this may not be technically true, but no evidence has yet confirmed that areas of the universe may have different constants

But then a chance that it will play only on a planet with water is not destined to continue the evolution of civilization?

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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Wed May 23, 2012 5:38 pm

Sometimes you're just going to get screwed over.

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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Wed May 23, 2012 6:29 pm

That's when you say "Belgium" and start the game over.

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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Wed May 23, 2012 8:31 pm

It would be nice to have it so that all water planets have more minerals underwater and thus attract more aliens thus making it more plausible that aliens would uplift your species as a working species
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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Thu May 24, 2012 10:23 am

PTFace wrote:
It would be nice to have it so that all water planets have more minerals underwater and thus attract more aliens thus making it more plausible that aliens would uplift your species as a working species

The first thing I thought upon reading this was aliens extracting fossil fuels from old seabeds, because the orgainic matter under the mud there gets converted to natural oil and natural gas quite easily. Other fuel-rich sites would be old swamps.

Now, on the chance that an intergalactic civilization still actually needs oil (they may, as a source of plastic if not a viable source of fuel) increased visits to biodiverse planets that have been mostly covered in sea would be plausible. And if you get uplifted, you're being granted technology that you could not have developed on your own, so yes, this is one of those narrow, possible routes to underwater civ. There's still no good way to do it without being uplifted.

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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Fri May 25, 2012 2:30 pm

Does anyone have more Ideas that don't include another specie's help? It might be funner to actually get to civ by Yourself, but I'm out of ideas honestly
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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Fri May 25, 2012 5:31 pm

You say underwater volcanoes arent hot enough to melt metals, but why not have a really soft, easily melted metal?
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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Fri May 25, 2012 9:00 pm

PTFace wrote:
You say underwater volcanoes arent hot enough to melt metals, but why not have a really soft, easily melted metal?
hey yeah? why not? maybe You could answer this Sciocont?
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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Fri May 25, 2012 10:53 pm

Nice try: Water's boiling point is lower than the melting point of all metals besides mercury, so if the water isn't boiled away, your metals haven't melted.

Think about it. This is why we have metal pots and pans to boil pasta in.

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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Fri May 25, 2012 11:01 pm

Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote:
Nice try: Water's boiling point is lower than the melting point of all metals besides mercury, so if the water isn't boiled away, your metals haven't melted.

Think about it. This is why we have metal pots and pans to boil pasta in.

So then how do we have underwater volcanoes and yet the ocean isn't constantly boiling?

I would like to continue my thought by using this link:
http://volcano.oregonstate.edu/book/export/html/138
Saying volcanoes underwater reach 400 degrees Celsius.
Lead melts at 327 C.
Thoughts?

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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Fri May 25, 2012 11:14 pm

PTFace wrote:
Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote:
Nice try: Water's boiling point is lower than the melting point of all metals besides mercury, so if the water isn't boiled away, your metals haven't melted.

Think about it. This is why we have metal pots and pans to boil pasta in.

So then how do we have underwater volcanoes and yet the ocean isn't constantly boiling?

I would like to continue my thought by using this link:
http://volcano.oregonstate.edu/book/export/html/138
Saying volcanoes underwater reach 400 degrees Celsius.
Lead melts at 327 C.
Thoughts?

Oceans don't boil because of distributive properties of heat in liquids, special properties of H2O, and vast amounts of pressure keeping them liquid. But lava that hits seawater becomes rock in short order.

Okay, there's a few things you could melt in a volcano, but you'd have to drop them in the lava with a crane and how would you ever get it out again? (Also, it said that 400 was the maximum, so most volcanoes probably aren't up there... And again, the "you'd need to drop it in with a crane," bit.)

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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Fri May 25, 2012 11:18 pm

Not unless your species evolved to be extremely heat resistant
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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Sat May 26, 2012 8:48 am

PTFace wrote:
Not unless your species evolved to be extremely heat resistant

In my opinion, the underwater creatures never will smoke cigarette.

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PostSubject: Re: Implementing Underwater Civilizations   Sat May 26, 2012 10:34 am

Ok, to answer the melting questions, I've written a bit of an editorial on this subject. Though lead does melt at a low temperature, it's soft and is fairly reactive, so it would corrode easily at high temperatures underwater. You can find the full text here.

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