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 Let's actually work please

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Tenebrarum
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PostSubject: Let's actually work please   Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:02 pm

I recently posted a link to our ModDB page on Reddit. While a got a few Oohs and Aahs, what stuck out to me was this:

Quote :
To be brutally honest, it sounds like you are making a game, but all you have is a design team. If you don't have programmers...you aren't making a game. You're making tech demos and pretty pictures. People already have jobs and other demands on their lives, you can't expect them to drop everything and work on your game cuz it looks cool.

This just seems like one of a thousand 'cool ideas' I see on moddb every time I go looking around, and as soon as I see that "TBD" tag, I move right along. Good luck, I guess, but I won't be holding my breath.

This is a sentiment I've been seeing alot recently, and to be honest, it's getting to me.

If people don't see any actual demo, or prototype, or gameplay vid, even the simplest, glitchiest one imaginable, we become a group of kids saying "Hey, I had this totally awesome idea for a game!"

Admittedly we're not that bad, but that's how people see us. And concidering we've only ever been able to hold down one programmer (Who we all love and cherish very much) for any length of time, we're stunning. But we're still vapourware until people can actually see something.

I vote we set a goal. Something simple and reasonable, like the cell editor and maybe a little gameplay for it, and put every belgiuming hand on deck for that and nothing but. Not making it bigger. Not making it better. MAKING IT. No changes in the design half-way through. Just doing the Belgium thing.

Yes, it will take forever. Yes, there will be long periods of waiting for our blessed messiah Roadkillguy to return to us. Yes, we may have to break out the fucking calculators and start learning to code ourselves, but if we keep doing things the way we have been, we have NO HOPE for finishing this in the next 50 years.

I'm 17. I expect to be through college before this is done. But the idea that it might not be done at all is something I find unacceptable.
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roadkillguy
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PostSubject: Re: Let's actually work please   Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:36 am

Wooo! Messiah? I say we start on the creature stage.

These are probably the best graphics I can do.
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BastianKraft
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PostSubject: Re: Let's actually work please   Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:32 am

I actually joined into this project because i wanted to get some programming expierience. I have already started learning multiple programming languges including c++.

Why im doing this? Because im going to be a professional programmer soon. Going to collage next month.

But even if we all start learning how to programm, it will take forever until we have enough expierience to actually be useful. So we can make a list of volenteers and help eachother out while learning to programm and unti to the end of the year we will have a small group of programmers. I admit that sounds impossible but i didnt mean we would all good at it but smart enough to work together and achieve as much a a single programmer. Everybody that is still on board after that (on the way i bet a few are going to jump out) will probably stay long enough so that we have enough expierience to work independantly and actually start writing something.

Quote :
Wooo! Messiah? I say we start on the creature stage.

These are probably the best graphics I can do.
Then i say start being our single programmer until we get enough expierience to help out. I know it sucks but if you also jump out we are *******.


At this point i would like to apply for the "Learning to programm Moderator"

And after talking to a friend about this he said look here http://newdata.box.sk/bx/c/. Its worth a try.

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BastianKraft
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PostSubject: Re: Let's actually work please   Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:00 am

One last thing, the tutorial i linked dosent recommend a complier and i myself use 2 differnt ones. Should we all use the same one? And which ones can we use?
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Tenebrarum
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PostSubject: Re: Let's actually work please   Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:39 am

roadkillguy wrote:
Wooo! Messiah? I say we start on the creature stage.

These are probably the best graphics I can do.

Good enough for now. Hopefully we'll be able to update them over time.

In addition, I have a request of you. If you could update us on your progress slightly more often than usual, please do. List any parts you're stuck on. We'll do everything we can to help.
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PostSubject: Re: Let's actually work please   Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:09 pm

Tenebrarum wrote:
roadkillguy wrote:
Wooo! Messiah? I say we start on the creature stage.

These are probably the best graphics I can do.

Good enough for now. Hopefully we'll be able to update them over time.

In addition, I have a request of you. If you could update us on your progress slightly more often than usual, please do. List any parts you're stuck on. We'll do everything we can to help.
I really agree that we need to actually work. Cell stage should be extremely easy, and last time I checked it was pretty much ironed out. We have pretty much EVERYTHING done concept-wise, until we hit sapience. Even if we only ever produce that game, it's still a godlike accomplishment. So here's what we need to work on:

Game engine- we need one that can cover all of our needs, and is highly modifiable. Roadkill is in charge. It will be difficult, but bashinerox already wrote a lot and it should be in the repository. Everyone who is not a programmer will help him with maths

Biomes- we need enough biomes and food webs to support an early build of the game. right now, we have one food web finished. They are easy and fun to make.

Textures/ assets- If you are a modeler or an artist, these need to be made for cell stage.

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PostSubject: Re: Let's actually work please   Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:39 pm

~sciocont wrote:
I really agree that we need to actually work. Cell stage should be extremely easy, and last time I checked it was pretty much ironed out. We have pretty much EVERYTHING done concept-wise, until we hit sapience. Even if we only ever produce that game, it's still a godlike accomplishment. So here's what we need to work on:

Game engine- we need one that can cover all of our needs, and is highly modifiable. Roadkill is in charge. It will be difficult, but bashinerox already wrote a lot and it should be in the repository. Everyone who is not a programmer will help him with maths

Biomes- we need enough biomes and food webs to support an early build of the game. right now, we have one food web finished. They are easy and fun to make.

Textures/ assets- If you are a modeler or an artist, these need to be made for cell stage.
So are we working on cell or multicellular? I'll get to work on what biomes I can.

In addition, I'd say we need updates on at least a weekly basis to make sure we alter our courses as needed. Roadkill, do your thing.
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PostSubject: Re: Let's actually work please   Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:58 pm

Tenebrarum wrote:
~sciocont wrote:
I really agree that we need to actually work. Cell stage should be extremely easy, and last time I checked it was pretty much ironed out. We have pretty much EVERYTHING done concept-wise, until we hit sapience. Even if we only ever produce that game, it's still a godlike accomplishment. So here's what we need to work on:

Game engine- we need one that can cover all of our needs, and is highly modifiable. Roadkill is in charge. It will be difficult, but bashinerox already wrote a lot and it should be in the repository. Everyone who is not a programmer will help him with maths

Biomes- we need enough biomes and food webs to support an early build of the game. right now, we have one food web finished. They are easy and fun to make.

Textures/ assets- If you are a modeler or an artist, these need to be made for cell stage.
So are we working on cell or multicellular? I'll get to work on what biomes I can.

In addition, I'd say we need updates on at least a weekly basis to make sure we alter our courses as needed. Roadkill, do your thing.
We're working on building cell, but at the same time, we're preparing for multicellular.

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PostSubject: Re: Let's actually work please   Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:08 pm

I seem to remember posting something similar about programming...

I'm not sure what bashi was writing. I thought it had to do with marching cubes and lattices and editors, but I'm not really sure. Reguardless, I'm going to start with new code.

I'll start writing a basic state engine. (Starting Menu, Loading screen, Actual game, etc. --all are states)

If you're going to learn c++, learn about pointers and derivative classes once you have the basics down. PM me with any questions.
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PostSubject: Re: Let's actually work please   Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:58 pm

So who wants to start learning c++?

And Roadkill, I already have pointers and derative classes down.I just need a little practice. Why do you point out exactly those two points?
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PostSubject: Re: Let's actually work please   Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:32 pm

Is it possible for us to load the actuall sourcecode up to a site and the so everybody can see it? And maybe so we can also edit it?
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~sciocont
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PostSubject: Re: Let's actually work please   Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:33 pm

That would be the repository.

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PostSubject: Re: Let's actually work please   Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:53 pm

I point those out because they were the biggest turning points in c++ for me.

I'll create a new repository when I have a better connection. I'm in Portugal right now, connected by a eucalyptus trunk, usb extensions, and a 3G usb stick. No, not kidding.

I'll have to find a wifi spot tomorrow.
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PostSubject: Re: Let's actually work please   Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:25 pm

You mean turningpoints in terms of.. i can finally do something with this? xD
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PostSubject: Re: Let's actually work please   Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:01 am

Yeah pretty much.

It sounds like we have 3 developers (including me). I've set up a repository.

hg clone ssh://roadkillguy@hg.code.sf.net/p/thrivegame/code thrivegame-code

You'll need to install hg (mercurial). ~Caveat~ I haven't uploaded any code. (I'm writing some basic engine stuff now.)
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PostSubject: Re: Let's actually work please   Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:36 am

All right, looking at what we have ironed out so far, we should work in something like this order.

1) Cell stage, for the reasons mentioned above.
2) However we are procedurally generating terrain. I don't care what it looks like, so long as it has elevation data that can be used with biomes. Our random place-specific resources should probably also get thrown in here - someone (sorry, roadkill, hope it doesn't end up all being you,) can do maths to find out what a good distribution for resources such as geothermal, metals, and minerals would be.
3) Biomes. Ideally by this point I will have an earthlike system at least, taking into account all zones that can contain larger-than-bugs life (technically, LAWK) which will be able to cover a good range of temperatures and elevation.

While I speak of it, I feel as if we should have some sort of biome editor for our weirder concept planets...

As a side note, I <3 you Roadkill, and I will take any opportunity to send you some minions.

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If you speak or write any language that isn't English, we want you.
Now accepting biome donations here.

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Not actually ascended to another plane of existence.
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PostSubject: Re: Let's actually work please   Sat Aug 13, 2011 1:43 pm

Late to the party, I know..

Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote:
2) However we are procedurally generating terrain. I don't care what it looks like, so long as it has elevation data that can be used with biomes. Our random place-specific resources should probably also get thrown in here - someone (sorry, roadkill, hope it doesn't end up all being you,) can do maths to find out what a good distribution for resources such as geothermal, metals, and minerals would be.

As long as anyone can convert my C# code to C++, I should be able to do this.

(One would say that when I can make this, learning C++ would be easy, not the hardest thing in the world...)
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PostSubject: http://libnoise.sourceforge.net/examples/complexplanet/index.html   Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:57 pm

Could I suggest we try using something based on this:

- see subject for link - apparently I'm not allowed to post external links yet, so I had to be sneaky, sorry mods!

for generating the planetary terrain? I've had a go at generating similair terrain in the past, and never come close to anything as pleasing, this doesn't solve the issue of rescource placement though.

Keen - if you want to have a go at implementing something (this or something else), I'd be happy to help with translating the code to c++.
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PostSubject: Re: Let's actually work please   Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:58 am

Well. I don't have much (read: any) experience working with procedurally generated models, but i could make textures and models for any prerendered objects that we need in the cell stage. Just give me pictures and a poly count. This brings me to a point i think i'll raise in the Microbe thread.

Other than that, i'm really sorry but i don't have the time to invest in the project right now. I am learning java on the side for a few mods me and some friends have planned, and i figure once i have a handle on that i can make the jump to C++, so i'll hopefully be able to help out one way or another sometime next year.
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PostSubject: Re: Let's actually work please   Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:15 am

Seregon wrote:
Could I suggest we try using something based on this:

- see subject for link - apparently I'm not allowed to post external links yet, so I had to be sneaky, sorry mods!

for generating the planetary terrain? I've had a go at generating similair terrain in the past, and never come close to anything as pleasing, this doesn't solve the issue of rescource placement though.

Keen - if you want to have a go at implementing something (this or something else), I'd be happy to help with translating the code to c++.
That site has some great noise libraries. In fact, it could help us with cell stage. The slime texture would be great for a cell membrane texture if its alpha was reduced to about 20%.

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PostSubject: Re: Let's actually work please   Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:48 pm

The slime texture is just a simple, not that hard to do example, and we will most probably store it on the harddrive anyway. What's awesome on libnoise is the complex terrain generation included and (as I have heard) the implementation. Most people who have worked with it liked very much.

Resources can be just areas defined by two multiplied simplex noises. Sending specialists into those areas / building resource gathering TOs there will increase income of the resource.
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PostSubject: Re: Let's actually work please   Sat Aug 20, 2011 6:25 am

I've used libnoise before. It can be slow sometimes, but it works. The best way to use it (I've found) is to populate an array with random values (be it 2D or 3D) and then use those random values instead of calling getValue() each and every time. You really only need to understand seeded (x, y, z) noise.

But yeah, libnoise's a breeze. I even built it for use with mingw. (Which is how we will cross compile things to windoze.)

Quote :
As long as anyone can convert my C# code to C++, I should be able to do this.

(One would say that when I can make this, learning C++ would be easy, not the hardest thing in the world...)

It's not exactly a straight conversion. C# manages your memory for you. In c++ you manually allocate what goes straight into RAM. Once you understand that, (pointers, referencing, dereferencing etc.) you should be just fine.

Quote :
That site has some great noise libraries. In fact, it could help us with cell stage. The slime texture would be great for a cell membrane texture if its alpha was reduced to about 20%.

It's one library.
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