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 Microbe Stage Final Draft

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The Uteen
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PostSubject: Re: Microbe Stage Final Draft   Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:23 am

MeowMan1 wrote:
ok. what should the environment around You look like in theMirobial Phase?

jmc-24 wrote:
~sciocont wrote:
I'm actually thinking that we shoulf go a different direction, stylistically- have all of the microbe gameplay happen on a surface, so there's no up/down movement, simplifying the game, and have the surface be that of an undersea vent or the bottom of a shallow pool. In this way, we can have a more interesting background, and you can encounter biofilms and such that serve as obstacles. I'll flesh this out later, but if we expand our minds a little, cell stage could be a lot more interesting and complex than spore's simple "primordial soup".

I like that idea, sounds much more feasible than spore plus it'll make the stage much less repetitive too.
I like this. It will make the background actually look interesting.

Plus, if we ever wanted to, we could get actual scenery from the planet's surface in the background, but it would have to go very far behind the cells to avoid the lack of detail getting noticeable, to the point where it seems to be fixed relative to the player (like stars to us). This would make the cellular phase of the game not feel as much like a separate game stuck into the whole, like Spore's cell stage did. The background would then gradually begin to become non-fixed as you become multicellular, ending up as a small area of a much more macro world.


Actually, on the lack of planet detail for cellular, is it possible to use a fractal thingamajig to be able to zoom into cellular sizes on a planet in Observer Mode, while not actually saving the details to disk? This would allow a planet to have backgrounds for cellular scales which can be found again (with difficulty) while not eating up the disk.
This would be useful in cellular phase, as a location can be returned to without all visited locations' backgrounds having to be saved. Also, it would keep the background consistent in detail during the multicellular transition/cellular colony phase, since the camera can zoom in and out and the background will maintain it's detail.
However, I'm not sure if it could be made to look like a natural landscape (ie a mandlebrot set background would look very odd as a supposedly natural occurrence) or if it would be implementable in this way. There's probably many reasons why this can't be done, but I'd like to check anyway. Can it be done or not?
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PostSubject: Re: Microbe Stage Final Draft   Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:16 pm

There's simply too much detail to do a full zoom. i think I'll put together some backgrounds. We'll work on environment concepts soon. I'll put up a thread.

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PostSubject: Re: Microbe Stage Final Draft   Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:52 pm

The Uteen wrote:
Actually, on the lack of planet detail for cellular, is it possible to use a fractal thingamajig to be able to zoom into cellular sizes on a planet in Observer Mode, while not actually saving the details to disk? This would allow a planet to have backgrounds for cellular scales which can be found again (with difficulty) while not eating up the disk.
This would be useful in cellular phase, as a location can be returned to without all visited locations' backgrounds having to be saved. Also, it would keep the background consistent in detail during the multicellular transition/cellular colony phase, since the camera can zoom in and out and the background will maintain it's detail.
However, I'm not sure if it could be made to look like a natural landscape (ie a mandlebrot set background would look very odd as a supposedly natural occurrence) or if it would be implementable in this way. There's probably many reasons why this can't be done, but I'd like to check anyway. Can it be done or not?

Not a fractal, but pseudo random noise. Understand it.
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The Uteen
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PostSubject: Re: Microbe Stage Final Draft   Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:58 pm

~sciocont wrote:
There's simply too much detail to do a full zoom. i think I'll put together some backgrounds. We'll work on environment concepts soon. I'll put up a thread.
Okie dokie. I look forward to the result.

roadkillguy wrote:
The Uteen wrote:
Actually, on the lack of planet detail for cellular, is it possible to use a fractal thingamajig to be able to zoom into cellular sizes on a planet in Observer Mode, while not actually saving the details to disk? This would allow a planet to have backgrounds for cellular scales which can be found again (with difficulty) while not eating up the disk.
This would be useful in cellular phase, as a location can be returned to without all visited locations' backgrounds having to be saved. Also, it would keep the background consistent in detail during the multicellular transition/cellular colony phase, since the camera can zoom in and out and the background will maintain it's detail.
However, I'm not sure if it could be made to look like a natural landscape (ie a mandlebrot set background would look very odd as a supposedly natural occurrence) or if it would be implementable in this way. There's probably many reasons why this can't be done, but I'd like to check anyway. Can it be done or not?

Not a fractal, but pseudo random noise. Understand it.
I didn't get any sleep last night ('Holiday Fever' struck yet again), and now I have to understand that‽
But from what I know already on this subject, noise is indeed the better option. Good info.
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Doggit
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PostSubject: Re: Microbe Stage Final Draft   Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:51 am

I have a question: since the last update of Commander Keen (or by downloading without AI) there are other improvements or upgrades?

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roadkillguy
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PostSubject: Re: Microbe Stage Final Draft   Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:41 pm

Doggit wrote:
I have a question: since the last update of Commander Keen (or by downloading without AI) there are other improvements or upgrades?

No, I'm pretty much waiting for him. I don't want to write anything alone. I write my own projects alone.
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Doggit
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PostSubject: Re: Microbe Stage Final Draft   Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:01 am

roadkillguy wrote:
Doggit wrote:
I have a question: since the last update of Commander Keen (or by downloading without AI) there are other improvements or upgrades?

No, I'm pretty much waiting for him. I don't want to write anything alone. I write my own projects alone.

what are yours?

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PostSubject: Re: Microbe Stage Final Draft   Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:20 am

I hope Keen starts with You soon then.
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PostSubject: Re: Microbe Stage Final Draft   Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:32 pm

Hey guys, Theusfilipe is back with bad news. I've got only two cells "ready". I think they look horrible and I don't have guts to show them yet, the people who saw them sey I have low self estemem... I don't believe them. And this past week I went to a church congress so I couldn't work on them.

So I have the plater and the protector1 and protector2 done. The stalker is in progress and I already have the base for the eater (I think that was the name...)

So now that I already killed my delivery date i will work more on them. Or even make all the cells. The second option being my favorite.

I didn't saw any one complaining but I am sorry anyway. I promise in 14 day I will have everything. In 15 days is test week.
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PostSubject: Re: Microbe Stage Final Draft   Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:24 pm

send the pics to me, I would like to see them for myself, if You do not post them on here soon.
Sure, maybe that suck, but we can't blame You.
Maybe I'll like them, who knows.
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PostSubject: Re: Microbe Stage Final Draft   Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:42 pm

It's fine Theus. I don't think anyone here blames you for the missed deadline. Just keep working and show em' when they're ready. It you aren't ready to actually post them, could you let me preview them? I could try my hand at giving you some feedback. But I know how it is when you think anything you make sucks, and I can almost assure you that it is much, much better than you think.
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PostSubject: Re: Microbe Stage Final Draft   Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:33 am

MeowMan1 wrote:
ok. what should the environment around You look like in theMirobial Phase?
I think that would really be tied in with the actual origin of life on the player's planet. We might want a kind of thick soupy slime if life was spontaneously generated in a pool of amino acids, or water if we use the theory of panspermia. I'm a bit poorly educated here though and I'm not sure which one we're using.
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PostSubject: Re: Microbe Stage Final Draft   Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:33 am

Theusfilipe wrote:
So I have the plater and the protector1 and protector2 done. The stalker is in progress and I already have the base for the eater (I think that was the name...)
So you're remaking the proto-cells?
Can I ask what happened to the old models for the proto-cells we had? I remember there was a whole gallery of them somewhere...
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PostSubject: Re: Microbe Stage Final Draft   Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:50 pm

speaking of thick gloopy slime, that would basically mean, that You would want the Spore 2005 beta background for microbial phase.
It's a good idea, that I have suggested a few times, but this is Thrive, not Spore, lets just see what sciocont and the others say about this.
Because Sciocont knows best.
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PostSubject: Re: Microbe Stage Final Draft   Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:09 am

I think 2005 beta background was more or less "correct". After seeing some photographs of actual microscope sights the backdrop is somewhat slimy, but lacks of depht, it needs some spots of dirt above and below the actual cells.

I would aim to slimy background with some unfocused dirty points to give depht to the scape.
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PostSubject: Re: Microbe Stage Final Draft   Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:14 am

MeowMan1 wrote:
speaking of thick gloopy slime, that would basically mean, that You would want the Spore 2005 beta background for microbial phase.
It's a good idea, that I have suggested a few times, but this is Thrive, not Spore, lets just see what sciocont and the others say about this.
Because Sciocont knows best.
So what I've picked up is that you did not read my post at all. I said that it would depend on the origin of life. If panspermia, the theory that life was transfered to planets by meteors, it would be a water background as the meteor is most likely going to land in the ocean. If we aren't going to bother tracing the origin of life, we will most likely still use water. And lastly if life were to be generated by random amino acid collisions, clearly, the microbe would be in a pool of amino acids (slime).
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PostSubject: Re: Microbe Stage Final Draft   Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:22 am

Gryphogrox wrote:
MeowMan1 wrote:
speaking of thick gloopy slime, that would basically mean, that You would want the Spore 2005 beta background for microbial phase.
It's a good idea, that I have suggested a few times, but this is Thrive, not Spore, lets just see what sciocont and the others say about this.
Because Sciocont knows best.
So what I've picked up is that you did not read my post at all. I said that it would depend on the origin of life. If panspermia, the theory that life was transfered to planets by meteors, it would be a water background as the meteor is most likely going to land in the ocean. If we aren't going to bother tracing the origin of life, we will most likely still use water. And lastly if life were to be generated by random amino acid collisions, clearly, the microbe would be in a pool of amino acids (slime).

I don't know much about chemicals and so... but i don't think that seeing a spoonfull of aminoacids and one of water trough a microscope would make a noticeable difference... altering the color and the "dirt chunks' " appearance and quantity would give the feeling of different enviorments IMO
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PostSubject: Re: Microbe Stage Final Draft   Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:55 am

uverion wrote:
Gryphogrox wrote:
MeowMan1 wrote:
speaking of thick gloopy slime, that would basically mean, that You would want the Spore 2005 beta background for microbial phase.
It's a good idea, that I have suggested a few times, but this is Thrive, not Spore, lets just see what sciocont and the others say about this.
Because Sciocont knows best.
So what I've picked up is that you did not read my post at all. I said that it would depend on the origin of life. If panspermia, the theory that life was transfered to planets by meteors, it would be a water background as the meteor is most likely going to land in the ocean. If we aren't going to bother tracing the origin of life, we will most likely still use water. And lastly if life were to be generated by random amino acid collisions, clearly, the microbe would be in a pool of amino acids (slime).

I don't know much about chemicals and so... but i don't think that seeing a spoonfull of aminoacids and one of water trough a microscope would make a noticeable difference... altering the color and the "dirt chunks' " appearance and quantity would give the feeling of different enviorments IMO
I don't know much about chemicals either except I breathe oxygen, I let out carbon dioxide, and I don't mix vinegar and baking soda , I just think a pool of what is mostly amino acids would be more thick than water. I do agree with the dirt chunks and whatnot, I'm just trying to figure out what the appearance and viscosity of the environment will look like.
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PostSubject: Re: Microbe Stage Final Draft   Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:08 pm

I'm fine with changing the appearance to make an animo acid environment look slimy, but remember the background colour is used to indicate pH and temperature in the concept, so we should stick to using filter for the slime effect. A blur effect with a bit of distortion should resemble a slimy environment, although I don't know exactly how animo acids would look. We should probably ask the especially scientifically knowledgable here.

So, the especially scientifically knowledgable here, any visuals of what amino acids look like?
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PostSubject: Re: Microbe Stage Final Draft   Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:05 pm

I'm sorry, I must've not noticed Your comment, abput the origin of life on a planet, thus determining it's background.
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PostSubject: Re: Microbe Stage Final Draft   Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:20 am

The Uteen wrote:
I'm fine with changing the appearance to make an animo acid environment look slimy, but remember the background colour is used to indicate pH and temperature in the concept, so we should stick to using filter for the slime effect. A blur effect with a bit of distortion should resemble a slimy environment, although I don't know exactly how animo acids would look. We should probably ask the especially scientifically knowledgable here.

So, the especially scientifically knowledgable here, any visuals of what amino acids look like?

Here, I quora'd it for you:
http://www.quora.com/Amino-Acids/What-does-water-saturated-with-amino-acids-look-like-visually/answer/Malcolm-Sargeant?__snids__=45053305
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PostSubject: Re: Microbe Stage Final Draft   Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:35 am

Holomanga wrote:
The Uteen wrote:
I'm fine with changing the appearance to make an animo acid environment look slimy, but remember the background colour is used to indicate pH and temperature in the concept, so we should stick to using filter for the slime effect. A blur effect with a bit of distortion should resemble a slimy environment, although I don't know exactly how animo acids would look. We should probably ask the especially scientifically knowledgable here.

So, the especially scientifically knowledgable here, any visuals of what amino acids look like?

Here, I quora'd it for you:
http://www.quora.com/Amino-Acids/What-does-water-saturated-with-amino-acids-look-like-visually/answer/Malcolm-Sargeant?__snids__=45053305
Good job.

  • From what I can tell, it doesn't seem particularly slimy, if that is the case we could give the cell background a yellowish hue if your cell develops due to high concentrations of amino acids.

  • As for the occurrence of life arising via a comet/asteroid, a higher density of dust/rocks could be present in the environment and background.
  • The larger geothermal vents could occasionally harbour an extremophile area of cells that use thermosynthesis, which could be a starting area for the player...
  • Life due to extraterrestrial interference would probably be the most basic environment, with no defining features.


Is there anything else to mention, or should we find something else to discuss?
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PostSubject: Re: Microbe Stage Final Draft   Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:50 am

The Uteen wrote:
  • From what I can tell, it doesn't seem particularly slimy, if that is the case we could give the cell background a yellowish hue if your cell develops due to high concentrations of amino acids.

  • As for the occurrence of life arising via a comet/asteroid, a higher density of dust/rocks could be present in the environment and background.
  • The larger geothermal vents could occasionally harbour an extremophile area of cells that use thermosynthesis, which could be a starting area for the player...
  • Life due to extraterrestrial interference would probably be the most basic environment, with no defining features.


Is there anything else to mention, or should we find something else to discuss?

Speaking as someone who will see the game without having too much biological or chemical background knowledge, this will sound complete and well studied.

I suppose that doing the beggining of the cell stage with this parameters would be feasible, since there are rougly 4 variables conditioning other 4 variables.

I'll add this one "as-is" if we end up making a TO-DO list for the microbial stage. Oppinions?
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PostSubject: Re: Microbe Stage Final Draft   Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:46 pm

sounds good to me.
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PostSubject: Re: Microbe Stage Final Draft   Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:57 pm

I'm thinking we start the game in an ocean vent environment. regardless of where and how life began, vents probably played a role in the development of eukaryotic life (plants, protists, animals, fungi [not bacteria and archaebacteria]), and that's what we care about for the game.

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