Thrive Game Development
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Thrive Game Development

Development of the evolution game Thrive.
 
HomeHome  PortalPortal  Latest imagesLatest images  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Welcome new and returning members!
If you're new, read around a bit before you post: the odds are we've already covered your suggestion.
If you want to join the development team, sign up and tell us why.
ADMIN is pleased to note that this marquee has finally been updated.
ADMIN reminds you that the Devblog is REQUIRED reading.
Currently: The Microbe Stage GUI is under heavy development
Log in
Username:
Password:
Log in automatically: 
:: I forgot my password
Quick Links
Website
/r/thrive
GitHub
FAQs
Wiki
New Posts
Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
Statistics
We have 1675 registered users
The newest registered user is dejo123

Our users have posted a total of 30851 messages in 1411 subjects
Who is online?
In total there are 5 users online :: 0 Registered, 0 Hidden and 5 Guests

None

Most users ever online was 443 on Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:41 pm
Latest topics
» THIS FORUM IS NOW OBSOLETE
I got an idea Emptyby NickTheNick Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:26 pm

» To all the people who come here looking for thrive.
I got an idea Emptyby NickTheNick Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:22 pm

» Build Error Code::Blocks / CMake
I got an idea Emptyby crovea Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:28 pm

» Hello! I can translate in japanese
I got an idea Emptyby tjwhale Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:23 pm

» On Leave (Offline thread)
I got an idea Emptyby NickTheNick Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:20 am

» Devblog #14: A Brave New Forum
I got an idea Emptyby NickTheNick Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:49 am

» Application for Programmer
I got an idea Emptyby crovea Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:14 am

» Re-Reapplication
I got an idea Emptyby The Creator Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:57 pm

» Application (programming)
I got an idea Emptyby crovea Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:00 am

» Achieving Sapience
I got an idea Emptyby MitochondriaBox Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:03 pm

» Microbe Stage GDD
I got an idea Emptyby tjwhale Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:44 pm

» Application for Programmer/ Theorist
I got an idea Emptyby tjwhale Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:56 am

» Application for a 3D Modeler.
I got an idea Emptyby Kaiju4u Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:16 am

» Presentation
I got an idea Emptyby Othithu Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:38 am

» Application of Sorts
I got an idea Emptyby crovea Sun May 31, 2015 5:06 pm

» want to contribute
I got an idea Emptyby Renzope Sun May 31, 2015 12:58 pm

» Music List Thread (Post New Themes Here)
I got an idea Emptyby Oliveriver Thu May 28, 2015 1:06 pm

» Application: English-Spanish translator
I got an idea Emptyby Renzope Tue May 26, 2015 1:53 pm

» Want to be promoter or project manager
I got an idea Emptyby TheBudderBros Sun May 24, 2015 9:00 pm

» A new round of Forum Revamps!
I got an idea Emptyby Oliveriver Wed May 20, 2015 11:32 am


 

 I got an idea

Go down 
+6
Tenebrarum
GhengopelALPHA
US_of_Alaska
The Uteen
lbrewer
Army-Lion
10 posters
AuthorMessage
Army-Lion
Newcomer
Army-Lion


Posts : 18
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2011-11-19
Location : Netherlands

I got an idea Empty
PostSubject: I got an idea   I got an idea EmptySat Nov 19, 2011 8:00 pm

Hello guys I got an idea i saw a post about how to do sneak attacks if you know spore and if you create an animal and take a limb you can make the limb bigger what if in Thrive you can increase the muscle size of the animal like you have a limited amount of how much muscles a animal can distribute all over the body what i mean by that is you know you never have the SUPER predator with SUPER muscles thats because its biologicaly not possible what if you have a limit of how much muscles you can increase in the whole body like if you increase the jaw bones VERY much you get a Crocodile jaw or a Tyrannosaurus rex jaw that way its very reallistic and that way you cant have god like animals that can with a snap of there fingers make a entire species go extinct

Now another thing i saw was extinction someone said that extincion will be that if you kill all the animals of that kind you will make them extinct but that would result in other species dieing to and maybe your own aswell if 1 species goes extinct and the animals that feeds on them will go extinct aswell and on and on and on so will that happen or will it be something else because it isnt actually possible as an animal to kill a entire species
Back to top Go down
lbrewer
Newcomer
lbrewer


Posts : 56
Reputation : 2
Join date : 2011-11-04

I got an idea Empty
PostSubject: Re: I got an idea   I got an idea EmptySun Nov 20, 2011 12:20 am

Army-Lion wrote:

Now another thing i saw was extinction someone said that extincion will be that if you kill all the animals of that kind you will make them extinct but that would result in other species dieing to and maybe your own aswell if 1 species goes extinct and the animals that feeds on them will go extinct aswell and on and on and on so will that happen or will it be something else because it isnt actually possible as an animal to kill a entire species
correct me if im wrong but i believe that this is covered in the game through niches. The code calculates through niche position what organisims feed of a certain position and if that goes extinct then it (not completely sure on this part) either mutates the animal (e.g. evolving to eat a different food source.), makes it rely on another food source more (so uneffected) or kills them off.

i will have a look through the wiki and see if i can find exact definitions.

thanks Lbrewer
Back to top Go down
Army-Lion
Newcomer
Army-Lion


Posts : 18
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2011-11-19
Location : Netherlands

I got an idea Empty
PostSubject: Re: I got an idea   I got an idea EmptySun Nov 20, 2011 4:34 am

And what about my other idea for the muscles to have a limit and you can increase like the muscles in the jaw to have like a t-rex jaw and here comes the thing if you put much muscles in the jaw somewhere from the body something else needs to be low on muscles.

I mean this is the most easiest way to make sure you dont have god animals.
Back to top Go down
The Uteen
Sandbox Team Lead
The Uteen


Posts : 1476
Reputation : 70
Join date : 2010-07-06
Age : 27
Location : England, Virgo Supercluster

I got an idea Empty
PostSubject: Re: I got an idea   I got an idea EmptySun Nov 20, 2011 9:00 am

Army-Lion wrote:
And what about my other idea for the muscles to have a limit and you can increase like the muscles in the jaw to have like a t-rex jaw and here comes the thing if you put much muscles in the jaw somewhere from the body something else needs to be low on muscles.

I mean this is the most easiest way to make sure you dont have god animals.

I don't think we need a muscle limit, because:

  • Bigger muscles mean the organism needs more energy to move around the muscles.
  • Bigger muscles require more energy to power them, there will be an ideal point after which the amount of energy required to use them becomes unobtainable. This is, in my opinion, the main reason it won't be possible.
  • Heightened strength means the bones need to be stronger to avoid snapping, so even more energy intake is needed simply to hold the thing together.
  • There is a point at which there simply is simply no reason to get bigger muscles, when it no longer makes life easier.


So an artificial limit isn't needed. If one was needed, you'd see the sort of things you describe in everyday life.


Last edited by The Uteen on Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:45 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
US_of_Alaska
Overall Team Co-Lead
US_of_Alaska


Posts : 1335
Reputation : 29
Join date : 2010-07-07
Age : 30
Location : Australia

I got an idea Empty
PostSubject: Re: I got an idea   I got an idea EmptySun Nov 20, 2011 8:01 pm

The Uteen wrote:
I don't think we need a muscle limit, because:

[list][*]Bigger muscles mean the organism needs more energy to move around the muscles.
[*]Bigger muscles require more energy to power them, there will be an ideal point after which the amount of energy required to use them becomes unobtainable. This is, in my opinion, the main reason it won't be possible.
[*]Heightened strength means the bones need to be stronger to avoid snapping, so even more energy intake is needed simply to hold the thing together.
[*]There is a point at which there simply is simply no reason to get bigger muscles, when it no longer makes life easier.

So an artificial limit isn't needed. If one was needed, you'd see the sort of things you describe in everyday life.
QFT

One of this game's aims is to be as close to science as is still fun, and when IRL has limits that sowrk just fine, why try to add different mechanics in?
Back to top Go down
GhengopelALPHA
Newcomer
GhengopelALPHA


Posts : 18
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2011-11-23

I got an idea Empty
PostSubject: Re: I got an idea   I got an idea EmptyWed Nov 30, 2011 2:33 pm

The Uteen wrote:
I don't think we need a muscle limit, because:

  • Bigger muscles mean the organism needs more energy to move around the muscles.
  • Bigger muscles require more energy to power them, there will be an ideal point after which the amount of energy required to use them becomes unobtainable. This is, in my opinion, the main reason it won't be possible.
  • Heightened strength means the bones need to be stronger to avoid snapping, so even more energy intake is needed simply to hold the thing together.
  • There is a point at which there simply is simply no reason to get bigger muscles, when it no longer makes life easier.


So an artificial limit isn't needed. If one was needed, you'd see the sort of things you describe in everyday life.

You nailed that question on the head. Now I have one: In the editor it's allowed currently for the player to scale up muscles, but I wonder what the difference would be between scaling up a current muscle, or adding in a new one in the same place? Is there a reason that new muscles are discouraged in real life natural selection?
Back to top Go down
Tenebrarum
Society Team Lead
Tenebrarum


Posts : 1179
Reputation : 32
Join date : 2010-10-01
Age : 30
Location : ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

I got an idea Empty
PostSubject: Re: I got an idea   I got an idea EmptyWed Nov 30, 2011 4:02 pm

GhengopelALPHA wrote:
The Uteen wrote:
I don't think we need a muscle limit, because:

  • Bigger muscles mean the organism needs more energy to move around the muscles.
  • Bigger muscles require more energy to power them, there will be an ideal point after which the amount of energy required to use them becomes unobtainable. This is, in my opinion, the main reason it won't be possible.
  • Heightened strength means the bones need to be stronger to avoid snapping, so even more energy intake is needed simply to hold the thing together.
  • There is a point at which there simply is simply no reason to get bigger muscles, when it no longer makes life easier.


So an artificial limit isn't needed. If one was needed, you'd see the sort of things you describe in everyday life.

You nailed that question on the head. Now I have one: In the editor it's allowed currently for the player to scale up muscles, but I wonder what the difference would be between scaling up a current muscle, or adding in a new one in the same place? Is there a reason that new muscles are discouraged in real life natural selection?
It requires more materials to make a separation between the muscles, and leaves you with a crease that's doing nothing. In addition, sometimes the rubbing of one against another can cause irritation.
Back to top Go down
Commander Keen
Industrial Team Lead
Commander Keen


Posts : 1123
Reputation : 36
Join date : 2010-07-23
Location : Czech Republic (not that anyone would know where it is...)

I got an idea Empty
PostSubject: Re: I got an idea   I got an idea EmptyWed Nov 30, 2011 4:23 pm

As Rex said, a single muscle is more effective that two or more muscles with the same total volume. On the other side, multiple muscles are much less prone to failures.
Back to top Go down
~sciocont
Overall Team Lead
~sciocont


Posts : 3406
Reputation : 138
Join date : 2010-07-06

I got an idea Empty
PostSubject: Re: I got an idea   I got an idea EmptyWed Nov 30, 2011 7:17 pm

Commander Keen wrote:
As Rex said, a single muscle is more effective that two or more muscles with the same total volume. On the other side, multiple muscles are much less prone to failures.
Adding in another muscle would have a greater effect on the code describing the creature, so it is less efficient for the player to add strength by adding more muscles, since complexity is measured in the actual length of the code describing the creature.
Back to top Go down
GhengopelALPHA
Newcomer
GhengopelALPHA


Posts : 18
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2011-11-23

I got an idea Empty
PostSubject: Re: I got an idea   I got an idea EmptyWed Nov 30, 2011 9:04 pm

Ahh, I got it. Keen's got a nice idea of a tradeoff if we allow individual muscles to fail, though. I kinda like the concept of that, but are we going to be simulating physical interactions and localized damage?
Back to top Go down
Commander Keen
Industrial Team Lead
Commander Keen


Posts : 1123
Reputation : 36
Join date : 2010-07-23
Location : Czech Republic (not that anyone would know where it is...)

I got an idea Empty
PostSubject: Re: I got an idea   I got an idea EmptyThu Dec 01, 2011 11:20 am

You know, Scio, we don't need to limit creatures by their complexity. Spore needed it to be able to stream the creatures through the server in runtime, but we don't have any server, thus we don't need any limit like this.

Localized damage was limited to whole body parts and organs, but the multiple muscle thing could be easily simulated just by increasing the bodypart's durability quite a bit.
Back to top Go down
The Uteen
Sandbox Team Lead
The Uteen


Posts : 1476
Reputation : 70
Join date : 2010-07-06
Age : 27
Location : England, Virgo Supercluster

I got an idea Empty
PostSubject: Re: I got an idea   I got an idea EmptyThu Dec 01, 2011 11:21 am

GhengopelALPHA wrote:
Ahh, I got it. Keen's got a nice idea of a tradeoff if we allow individual muscles to fail, though. I kinda like the concept of that, but are we going to be simulating physical interactions and localized damage?

I believe so, it’s what our weapons’ damage system is dependant on. Each organ in the body will have its own ‘health’. The skin… I’m not sure how we’re doing that. There is a shard (our CC graphical interface, shards indicate status, act as buttons, and look good (See Scio’s sig design)) which will get the average damage of the creature and display it in a colour, and clicking will give you different areas’ damage.

EDIT: Confirmed by Keen, as I wrote this.

EDIT (Again): Ahh… 15 more posts and I’ll be joining the one-thousand club. Wow!
Back to top Go down
~sciocont
Overall Team Lead
~sciocont


Posts : 3406
Reputation : 138
Join date : 2010-07-06

I got an idea Empty
PostSubject: Re: I got an idea   I got an idea EmptyThu Dec 01, 2011 5:54 pm

Commander Keen wrote:
You know, Scio, we don't need to limit creatures by their complexity. Spore needed it to be able to stream the creatures through the server in runtime, but we don't have any server, thus we don't need any limit like this.

Localized damage was limited to whole body parts and organs, but the multiple muscle thing could be easily simulated just by increasing the bodypart's durability quite a bit.
We limit by the change in complexity, not the overall complexity. Each mutation will allow you to change the length of the code by a certain percent.
Back to top Go down
The Uteen
Sandbox Team Lead
The Uteen


Posts : 1476
Reputation : 70
Join date : 2010-07-06
Age : 27
Location : England, Virgo Supercluster

I got an idea Empty
PostSubject: Re: I got an idea   I got an idea EmptyFri Dec 02, 2011 12:03 pm

~sciocont wrote:
Commander Keen wrote:
You know, Scio, we don't need to limit creatures by their complexity. Spore needed it to be able to stream the creatures through the server in runtime, but we don't have any server, thus we don't need any limit like this.

Localized damage was limited to whole body parts and organs, but the multiple muscle thing could be easily simulated just by increasing the bodypart's durability quite a bit.
We limit by the change in complexity, not the overall complexity. Each mutation will allow you to change the length of the code by a certain percent.
A duck and a rabbit are about as complex, but completely different. Surely it should just be a limit to the complexity of the change, rather than the change in the complexity?
Back to top Go down
Tenebrarum
Society Team Lead
Tenebrarum


Posts : 1179
Reputation : 32
Join date : 2010-10-01
Age : 30
Location : ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

I got an idea Empty
PostSubject: Re: I got an idea   I got an idea EmptyFri Dec 02, 2011 4:50 pm

Complexity isn't the issue here.

The way we want the OE set up is so that a universal code layout is provided. All Orgs use one style of code, which acts as their DNA. It lists how the organism is laid out, how it moves, sounds, acts, etc. When the player mutates, they access the editor, and, through their alterations, change the code. The game will compare the code from the previous organism with the new one, and if the percentage of code that is different is too high, it is not allowed.

All done.
Back to top Go down
~sciocont
Overall Team Lead
~sciocont


Posts : 3406
Reputation : 138
Join date : 2010-07-06

I got an idea Empty
PostSubject: Re: I got an idea   I got an idea EmptyFri Dec 02, 2011 7:29 pm

Tenebrarum wrote:
Complexity isn't the issue here.

The way we want the OE set up is so that a universal code layout is provided. All Orgs use one style of code, which acts as their DNA. It lists how the organism is laid out, how it moves, sounds, acts, etc. When the player mutates, they access the editor, and, through their alterations, change the code. The game will compare the code from the previous organism with the new one, and if the percentage of code that is different is too high, it is not allowed.

All done.
QFT

You would have to change the code too much in between. Maybe I should have made it clearer. Actually, no I completely messed it up, it's not the length of the code, it's the number of changed characters.
Back to top Go down
darkfallve




Posts : 2
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2012-11-21
Age : 34

I got an idea Empty
PostSubject: Re: I got an idea   I got an idea EmptyThu Nov 22, 2012 4:58 am

All Right, you're scaring me, I can not agree what you think.
Back to top Go down
http://www.cheapdarkfallgold.net/
The Uteen
Sandbox Team Lead
The Uteen


Posts : 1476
Reputation : 70
Join date : 2010-07-06
Age : 27
Location : England, Virgo Supercluster

I got an idea Empty
PostSubject: Re: I got an idea   I got an idea EmptyThu Nov 22, 2012 11:26 am

darkfallve wrote:
All Right, you're scaring me, I can not agree what you think.
Who are you responding to?
Back to top Go down
Daniferrito
Experienced
Daniferrito


Posts : 726
Reputation : 70
Join date : 2012-10-10
Age : 29
Location : Spain

I got an idea Empty
PostSubject: Re: I got an idea   I got an idea EmptySun Nov 25, 2012 10:58 am

I dont like the percentage of code changed. If you change the right bit, you could get a muscle twice as big, or in a completely diferent place. just one bit. In contrast, making the nose a bit longer but not thicker could need a few hundred bytes. We need some other way of measuring how big changes are.
Back to top Go down
~sciocont
Overall Team Lead
~sciocont


Posts : 3406
Reputation : 138
Join date : 2010-07-06

I got an idea Empty
PostSubject: Re: I got an idea   I got an idea EmptyWed Nov 28, 2012 7:36 pm

Daniferrito wrote:
I dont like the percentage of code changed. If you change the right bit, you could get a muscle twice as big, or in a completely diferent place. just one bit. In contrast, making the nose a bit longer but not thicker could need a few hundred bytes. We need some other way of measuring how big changes are.
Can you think of any specific way? Perhaps we just need to format the code in a manner such that changes are controlled, like by specifying that only the last decimal place or two in a measurement can be altered.
Back to top Go down
Daniferrito
Experienced
Daniferrito


Posts : 726
Reputation : 70
Join date : 2012-10-10
Age : 29
Location : Spain

I got an idea Empty
PostSubject: Re: I got an idea   I got an idea EmptyWed Nov 28, 2012 8:24 pm

I think that we should go to a much higher level in order to see what changed. If you look at the lowest levels (the code), the only things you can extract from that are really not meaningfull. I would sugest something like percentages of changes.

For example:

We have a 10% of changes we are allowed.
We increase a muscle size by 2% (of the total mass of the creature), and reduce another muscle size by 3%. Now we a 5% alowed change left.

Of course, this idea needs lots of refining, but i think something similar could work. Anyway, my point here is that we should look at the changes from a meaningfull level.
Back to top Go down
~sciocont
Overall Team Lead
~sciocont


Posts : 3406
Reputation : 138
Join date : 2010-07-06

I got an idea Empty
PostSubject: Re: I got an idea   I got an idea EmptyWed Nov 28, 2012 10:25 pm

Daniferrito wrote:
I think that we should go to a much higher level in order to see what changed. If you look at the lowest levels (the code), the only things you can extract from that are really not meaningfull. I would sugest something like percentages of changes.

For example:

We have a 10% of changes we are allowed.
We increase a muscle size by 2% (of the total mass of the creature), and reduce another muscle size by 3%. Now we a 5% alowed change left.

Of course, this idea needs lots of refining, but i think something similar could work. Anyway, my point here is that we should look at the changes from a meaningfull level.
Exactly, an organizational change. This is what I meant from the code changing perspective, that we would have each component of the organism have discrete parameters that could be modified. Essentially, every "part" put into an organism has values for size/strength/etc that auto-evo can manipulate to a certain degree, and that change will necessarily have other effects on the global functioning of the organism. If a femur is increased in length by 5%, movement speed also increases, but energy consumption increases as well.
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content





I got an idea Empty
PostSubject: Re: I got an idea   I got an idea Empty

Back to top Go down
 
I got an idea
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» If you are conquered...
» Miscellaneous Bugs And Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread
» Here's an idea
» Miscellaneous Bugs And Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread
» will i sleep in a tree or in my preys flesh

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Thrive Game Development :: Development :: Design :: Editors :: Organism-
Jump to: