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 Dear thrive,

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jaws2blood
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PostSubject: Re: Dear thrive,   Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:57 pm

linux eh? i figured that it at least wasn't windows from the lack of #include <windows.h>. meh, roadkillguy's code is standard enough c++ where someone could come in and add stuff into it.
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roadkillguy
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PostSubject: Re: Dear thrive,   Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:54 am

jaws2blood wrote:
PS: seriously roadkillguy? Unity3d? lul. They're better off with visual studio, ogre 3d, and SDL.

Unity3D because lets face it, nobody will follow your tutorials past hello world.

Attempting to use Ogre3D and SDL at the same time implies you don't know what these libraries are.

Visual Studio? If your compiler cant handle standard Belgiuming c++, I think it's time for a change. Do you even know what happens after you hit the play button?

If you cant slam with the best, you can jam with the rest.
I use linux, clang++, vim, and makefiles.

lel.
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Brennus
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PostSubject: Re: Dear thrive,   Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:25 am

...Not that this is truly relevant, roadkillguy, but I've been following the tutorial pretty closely, and I think that others have been ding the same. Also, why is Unity3D so good? Are there any advantages it has over the other programs that were suggested?
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PostSubject: Re: Dear thrive,   Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:40 am

roadkillguy wrote:
jaws2blood wrote:
PS: seriously roadkillguy? Unity3d? lul. They're better off with visual studio, ogre 3d, and SDL.

Unity3D because lets face it, nobody will follow your tutorials past hello world.

Attempting to use Ogre3D and SDL at the same time implies you don't know what these libraries are.

Visual Studio? If your compiler cant handle standard Belgiuming c++, I think it's time for a change. Do you even know what happens after you hit the play button?

If you cant slam with the best, you can jam with the rest.
I use linux, clang++, vim, and makefiles.

lel.

I know you don't use SDL with Ogre3d, ogre 3d is pretty much it's own engine for scene rendering. I was trying to lay out choices but forgot about opengl which would have shown that. Well, a compiler's required for using everything after visual studio, and opengl and sdl are often used together because sdl does things with the screen, but whatever. I was indeed looking into using new compilers, but i'm still not sure what to use, code blocks looks pretty decent, but i'm sure there's something better. When you hit the "play button" the files are turned into .obj files, then a .exe file is formed with them. And whatever works, works. If you like making makefiles for programs, not using c++0x(i think it's called that), rather clang++, using linux, or whatever keep doing what your doing, it's your way to do things. I've got my ways, you have yours.
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PostSubject: Re: Dear thrive,   Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:49 am

Brennus wrote:
...Not that this is truly relevant, roadkillguy, but I've been following the tutorial pretty closely, and I think that others have been ding the same. Also, why is Unity3D so good? Are there any advantages it has over the other programs that were suggested?

Yes. Unity3d is simple to learn and can still make decent games. Unity3d, like allot of engines, takes care of allot of the headaches with the calculus and the trig and matrices and all of that insane stuff. However, with unity3d, it's quite weak compared to straight up coding. If you want thrive as you want it, you're better off learning some serious math(mostly graphics related), and coding things yourself.
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roadkillguy
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PostSubject: Re: Dear thrive,   Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:06 pm

Brennus wrote:

..Not that this is truly relevant, roadkillguy, but I've been following the tutorial pretty closely, and I think that others have been ding the same.

Prove me wrong. I'm sure you'll find programming isn't as trivial as it's cut out to be.

jaws2blood wrote:
And whatever works, works.

I painfully disagree. If the code isn't treated as art in and of itself, it will be buggy and awful to work with.

jaws2blood wrote:

If you like making makefiles for programs, not using c++0x(i think it's called that), rather clang++, using linux, or whatever keep doing what your doing, it's your way to do things. I've got my ways, you have yours.

c++0x is the newest standard, not a build tool. Makefiles are the alternative to Visual Studio, in that a makefile decides what needs to be recompiled, and clang is what does the compiling and linking.

If you're one of the people tl;dr ing everything I say. Kickstarters will do nothing. There's plenty of other indie projects far simpler and far more promising than this one. For the newcomers, this project has been searching for programmers for 3 years. I don't mean to kill the fun, I only wish to speak the truth. Don't find programmers, become programmers.

For the truly inspired of you, write code, and write it well. Don't just make concept art, meshes, or textures, get something done. When you're ready for all of the art, make it then.

I'm done being elitist, and (if you haven't taken the hint) I'm done with Thrive.
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Brennus
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PostSubject: Re: Dear thrive,   Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:47 pm


Quote :

Prove me wrong. I'm sure you'll find programming isn't as trivial as it's cut out to be.
I've already found that out. Learning C++ and writing the code will definitely be a challenge be a challenge, but I'm learning, and I will be writing code for thrive.
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PostSubject: Re: Dear thrive,   Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:26 pm

roadkillguy wrote:
Brennus wrote:

..Not that this is truly relevant, roadkillguy, but I've been following the tutorial pretty closely, and I think that others have been ding the same.

Prove me wrong. I'm sure you'll find programming isn't as trivial as it's cut out to be.

jaws2blood wrote:
And whatever works, works.

I painfully disagree. If the code isn't treated as art in and of itself, it will be buggy and awful to work with.

jaws2blood wrote:

If you like making makefiles for programs, not using c++0x(i think it's called that), rather clang++, using linux, or whatever keep doing what your doing, it's your way to do things. I've got my ways, you have yours.

c++0x is the newest standard, not a build tool. Makefiles are the alternative to Visual Studio, in that a makefile decides what needs to be recompiled, and clang is what does the compiling and linking.

If you're one of the people tl;dr ing everything I say. Kickstarters will do nothing. There's plenty of other indie projects far simpler and far more promising than this one. For the newcomers, this project has been searching for programmers for 3 years. I don't mean to kill the fun, I only wish to speak the truth. Don't find programmers, become programmers.

For the truly inspired of you, write code, and write it well. Don't just make concept art, meshes, or textures, get something done. When you're ready for all of the art, make it then.

I'm done being elitist, and (if you haven't taken the hint) I'm done with Thrive.

First off, your code is by no means perfect or even working. And if coding is art, im a unicorn. Code is a way of getting things done on computers and if its buggy and hard to work with, you can always fix it, IDEs do tell you where you messed up and how after all. If we all do things the hard way, sure the result works like a dream, but the game will suck and be hopelessly boring with no potential. To be frank, thrive was always screwed with or without you, or anyone else one this blasted forum, and instead of helping people understand code, you simply state the stupidly obvious of how this and that will never work, or you try telling the community to learn code without even pointing anyone in the proper direction. So with that, bye and thanks for the code which is more than likely to be reworked to suit the needs of whoever is interested in it.
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PostSubject: Re: Dear thrive,   Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:40 pm

Okay, this is starting to get a bit tense. I think that this topic can be closed now, since it's pretty much served its purpose. And yes, the game is quite screwed; it has been from the get-go, but there's always a few people that come along every so often that continue where others have left off. So I have a feeling that thrive may eventually get finished, but it may not be recognizable when and if that day comes.
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roadkillguy
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PostSubject: Re: Dear thrive,   Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:51 pm

http://thrivegame.canadaboard.net/t197-roadkill-s-programming-tutorial-part-i

http://thrivegame.canadaboard.net/t575p15-npc-auto-evo-thread

http://thrivegame.canadaboard.net/t831-class-structure

http://thrivegame.canadaboard.net/t599p15-food-web-creation

Oh, and I changed my mind. Definitely use Lua for scripting, not JavaScript.

Yeah, I agree, the code is Belgium. We were going to do a rewrite, then Keen disappeared... Check that development progress link in my signature.
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The_Noob
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PostSubject: Re: Dear thrive,   Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:57 pm

Let's face it, we got further under that troll from Germany.
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Brennus
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PostSubject: Re: Dear thrive,   Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:10 pm

What happened with that troll?
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ido66667
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PostSubject: Re: Dear thrive,   Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:33 pm

Why I can't learn programming:
1) I really don't have the discipline to be honest.
2) I am not really intersted in the programing, only the logic.
3) I would like to sit around, and only talk about phyics and other stuff on Forums.

Now, Something else:
DO YOU REALLY THINK, That if there was no vision men in here, the programers will do a great game?
Maybe they will create something well programed, But a game that is kind of boring like Spore...
I don't know why, But there is a new trend "The vision people don't do Belgium, We should ignore them."
I know that some things go wild, But If there were only programmers, Would thrive reach where it is now?
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roadkillguy
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PostSubject: Re: Dear thrive,   Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:36 am

ido66667 wrote:
Why I can't learn programming:
1) I really don't have the discipline to be honest.
2) I am not really intersted in the programing, only the logic.
3) I would like to sit around, and only talk about phyics and other stuff on Forums.

Now, Something else:
DO YOU REALLY THINK, That if there was no vision men in here, the programers will do a great game?
Maybe they will create something well programed, But a game that is kind of boring like Spore...
I don't know why, But there is a new trend "The vision people don't do Belgium, We should ignore them."
I know that some things go wild, But If there were only programmers, Would thrive reach where it is now?

Yes, and further.

In fact, it seems like people are showing up with c++ skills left and right. If it was that forum you posted a help wanted sign to, I am thoroughly surprised.
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NickTheNick
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PostSubject: Re: Dear thrive,   Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:25 pm

It is actually from a Reddit post.

However, Roadkill, all of our current programmers are planning to have a meeting over IRC sometime within the next couple of days. We now have much more programmers than usual and it would be great if you could join them. I understand that solely having to code the hundreds of things people say "oh yeah that should be implemented" or "this should be in the game" without actually thinking it out and modelling an equation or draft of some sort to help you is very frustrating. Plus the fact that there were much less programmers back then. All I'm saying is, please give Thrive another chance. There is a programmer coordination thread here and a corresponding discussion thread here where the first meeting is being arranged.

Please Roadkill, you're our only hope...

p.s. We are also tracking our progress of the Microbe Stage here. We plan on working on it and releasing it first and foremost.

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ido66667
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PostSubject: Re: Dear thrive,   Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:40 pm

NickTheNick wrote:
It is actually from a Reddit post.

However, Roadkill, all of our current programmers are planning to have a meeting over IRC sometime within the next couple of days. We now have much more programmers than usual and it would be great if you could join them. I understand that solely having to code the hundreds of things people say "oh yeah that should be implemented" or "this should be in the game" without actually thinking it out and modelling an equation or draft of some sort to help you is very frustrating. Plus the fact that there were much less programmers back then. All I'm saying is, please give Thrive another chance. There is a programmer coordination thread here and a corresponding discussion thread here where the first meeting is being arranged.

Please Roadkill, you're our only hope...

p.s. We are also tracking our progress of the Microbe Stage here. We plan on working on it and releasing it first and foremost.

BTW, Nick I offered my help to Seregon and he gave me this link to this tutorial...

http://showmedo.com/videotutorials/video?name=6780000&fromSeriesID=678

What is the IRC Channel, BTW?

I would like to be in there.
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PostSubject: Re: Dear thrive,   Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:42 pm

NickTheNick wrote:
It is actually from a Reddit post.

However, Roadkill, all of our current programmers are planning to have a meeting over IRC sometime within the next couple of days. We now have much more programmers than usual and it would be great if you could join them. I understand that solely having to code the hundreds of things people say "oh yeah that should be implemented" or "this should be in the game" without actually thinking it out and modelling an equation or draft of some sort to help you is very frustrating. Plus the fact that there were much less programmers back then. All I'm saying is, please give Thrive another chance. There is a programmer coordination thread here and a corresponding discussion thread here where the first meeting is being arranged.

Please Roadkill, you're our only hope...

p.s. We are also tracking our progress of the Microbe Stage here. We plan on working on it and releasing it first and foremost.

let roadkillguy do as he pleases, if he doesn't want to quote,"simulate the belgiuming universe". Begging will only annoy. Coding is a serious business, game development even more so. He also does things the hard way. I (and most other people) use windows, and IDEs with user friendly GUIs. Roadkillguy uses a command line interface, and linux. Frankly, it's not really like a single dev will make the greatest of differences. It's whether or not multiple people who actually care for thrive can learn how to do the things they have to, and come up with something... existent.
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NickTheNick
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PostSubject: Re: Dear thrive,   Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:45 pm

ido66667 wrote:
BTW, Nick I offered my help to Seregon and he gave me this link to this tutorial...

http://showmedo.com/videotutorials/video?name=6780000&fromSeriesID=678

What is the IRC Channel, BTW?

I would like to be in there.

Yeah I'm currently going through that tutorial. I am at number 5. The IRC channel is the one on the portal page, the chat room thingy. Ask in the thread I linked you to make sure.

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PostSubject: Re: Dear thrive,   Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:15 am

Wow. I go to Nova Scotia for two weeks, and it seems we have a complete reversal of our situation. It seems that thrive is back on track, but how well it will go, I have no clue.
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PostSubject: Re: Dear thrive,   Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:12 pm

Brennus wrote:
Wow. I go to Nova Scotia for two weeks, and it seems we have a complete reversal of our situation. It seems that thrive is back on track, but how well it will go, I have no clue.

Well, Maybe it is magic!
But remeber, We still have alot of work to do.
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PostSubject: Re: Dear thrive,   Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:48 am

Yes, there is a hell of a lot more work to do. But we're actually making decent progress, something that hasn't happened in several years.
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PostSubject: Re: Dear thrive,   Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:43 am

roadkillguy wrote:
I'm afraid this forum doesn't quite understand what it means to make a game. It's been what, 3.5 years? I don't care. The game doesn't exist, and probably never will.

Anyway, my problem is thus: Everyone and their dog submits ideas. Normally this isn't a problem, but Thrive is quite a unique case. I've made this point before, (and it was quickly ignored) but this forum has it completely backwards. This entire time, you've honestly expected programmers to come magically create the game for you.

It would be a completely different story if, say, the game was started by a programmer, demonstrated by a programmer, and then led, by a programmer. They would have made a small prototype, received interest, and if all went well, a community would have been born. However, if started by a programmer, certainly he or she would have never intended to simulate the entire Belgiuming universe. As you can see, thrive has a unique dilemma. The community has been created out of thin air, based on "Wouldn't it be cool if there were a game where..."

Moving back to idea submissions, remembering that the game doesn't exist and that the game roughly covers the entire Belgiuming universe, we see that any and every idea can and will be accepted. Simulating the universe is a catch-all. ANYTHING ANYONE submits is valid. Since there is no game, there's nobody to say no. Instead, there's a wiki, and the idea will be added.

Such is the problem of thrive. Thrive is one massive wad of ideas, stripped from all the best games we've all played. Org mode! Civ mode! God mode! Editors! Belgiuming editors! Cell stage! Creature stage! Civ stage! (But don't compare us to spore!) Planets! Aliens! Religions! Politics! Epic GUI! This is what makes people have zero confidence. This is what drives your precious programmers away. It's not because you have all bark and no bite, it's because you have so much Belgium bark.

What was my solution? Learn to program. Those who really wanted to make the game, should make it. But that didn't work. Nobody wanted to put so much effort into something that was so hard to understand. I've done my best to help other people understand, but every time I bring up pseudorandom numbers, people freak out. As if discussing the actual implementation of an idea is completely out of question.

Take for example, procedural generation. The people of this forum LOVE this term. "Oh, that will be procedurally generated, but we'll have an editor for it, don't worry." "The textures will be procedurally generated" "The planets will be procedurally generated" If there isn't a better way to push things off onto the programmers, I don't know what is. Nobody, not once, has EVER discussed just how exactly the textures for leaves on plants will be generated. Why? Because it's just more complicated than they'd ever like to know. Not to mention, making procedurally generated textures on plants would be outright a pain in the Belgium.

Lately, you may have seen my second solution. Divide those who can program, from those who cant. Split the forum for serious development. Unfortunately, my fears held true. I'm the only one. Here I am, writing dozens of lines of c++ for an angry crowd of 12 year-olds who just got through rage quitting spore. A massive amount of ideas submitted over the course of 3.5 years, and I'm supposed to implement them all, oh yeah --with great graphics. Does anyone else see what's wrong with this?

Yes, they've been filtered. Yes, the most ridiculous are turned down left and right. I get it. The problem still remains, however. Those who are checking the ideas, still don't know how to program. I could check the consistency of the ideas, but I would reject every single one. Hell, I don't even agree with half of the "current concept." Making all of these "ideas" a reality is beyond insane.

There you have it. I don't agree with the planned course of the game, and I'm unwilling to help people's ideas become implemented. A) Because it's all me, and B) Because it's all me. This brings me to question why I'm still here, which I cannot answer. Therefore, I'm done.

My advice? Change or die. Sure, you can keep going like I don't matter. "Hold strong" to the current course of the game. After all, it's scientific!

I'm sure you'll find great results that way.

tl;dr: roadkillguy is batshit insane and doesn't wanna program no more

right.
this project was done for 3,5 years, but you know to microbe stage wil come at end of this year!
it's of epic proportions+everyone are volunters!
so it will take munch time, but it's still possible.
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PostSubject: Re: Dear thrive,   Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:33 am

When the game is over, we will add this your monologue roadkillguy

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PostSubject: Re: Dear thrive,   Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:06 am

I agree with a lot of the stuff that's been said on this thread but this is just my suggestion if we don't want to split the forums. For now I think we may have to put a notice up to all members of the forum about the following:
We need to lock down some parts of the forum and focus very hard on getting the microbe stage working. We need to forget some of the other segments >just for now<. The important pages like the faq will of course still remain open. (And coming from the perspective of a concept artist, only art relevant to the microbe stage should be worked on for now. Like the backgrounds to be used in the prototype, and some sample cell designs to use for the npc's etc etc).

What I'm suggesting may seem somewhat extreme to some but we may have to consider it if all people do is continually add ideas :/

Recruitment of programmers is also vital - but how we go about it is also important (we will need to discuss this in the very near future). Like Nick said a while ago, if we can show others a simple prototype of the cell stage, it'll be of great help in getting some attention from other programmers.

Also, looking back at what I just typed, this probably sounded very ironic/arrogant coming from a newcomer who has not contributed much at all and from a concept artist who has yet to post any art at all :/
For that, I sincerely apologise if it sounded like I was already making a grab for power or if I have offended you.
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PostSubject: Re: Dear thrive,   Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:18 pm

I wouldn't go as far as locking down parts of the forum (and I'm not sure it is that easy anyways), rather, I think it is important that we attract new programmers to the game. That is really what I think is currently the most essential step.

Now I don't advocate spamming other websites, but I think we should think of some ways to get new coders to help us out with this project. Now I know a couple weeks ago I was against searching for new talent, but things have changed since then. You know I think I might just start a new thread regarding this exact topic, so that we can get some discussion going.

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PostSubject: Re: Dear thrive,   Today at 6:09 pm

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Dear thrive,
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