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 Fleets and Stations

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GmansWatching
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PostSubject: Fleets and Stations   Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:09 am

So i thought of this. (just a brainstorm'd thought) You stasrt space with (an example) fighter squad. And over time you can purchase more ships with different specialities and add them into you personal fleet or station them at planets. And you can eventually build space stations that hold, repair, and resupply ships. As well as defend against invaders, raiders, etc. Somewhat like an EVE concept i suppose.
2:08AM = Random ideas
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PostSubject: Re: Fleets and Stations   Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:01 am

sounds good, but that raises another question that i'm not sure was addressed ... when you become a space faring species how do you get from one galaxy to another? and if you go even deeper tun tun tun how do you reach other universes?- maybe we could add a sins of a solar empire system for traveling (once the technological standard has been met by the player)
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PostSubject: Re: Fleets and Stations   Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:17 am

Okay first of all, why the Belgium would you start with a *fighter* fleet it would be more realistic to make your own choices on what you would like to be in space first. Do you want 3 single person ships? A colony ship? We shouldn't start with a preset fleet. And another thing i pretty sure that your species wouldn't have the tech for weapons in space.
Secondly we will only be able to stay inside our galaxy, if you say that "Oh but its gonna be too small!" Well in another thread is was calculated that to visit each planet it would take many years of interrupted playing.
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PostSubject: Re: Fleets and Stations   Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:23 am

RagingBeaver wrote:
sounds good, but that raises another question that i'm not sure was addressed ... when you become a space faring species how do you get from one galaxy to another? and if you go even deeper tun tun tun how do you reach other universes?- maybe we could add a sins of a solar empire system for traveling (once the technological standard has been met by the player)

Thrive will only have one galaxy, since it would take the player a large part of their life to explore it entirely.
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GmansWatching
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PostSubject: Re: Fleets and Stations   Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:15 pm

@RagingBeaver, nziswat, The Uteen
Well what if they got high enough tech and managed to research new engines? Like FTL drives, impulse engines, combustion engines, etc.

It was an example. You can start with whatever you choose to.

(just exploring all possibilities) What if someone with no life, sent numerous fleets out to as many planets as possible and eventually ventured them all? I say give em a badge/trophy saying "No Life, Huh?"
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PostSubject: Re: Fleets and Stations   Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:08 pm

I think it should go something like this:

You have 5 types of ships:

Fighters-Really light, inexpensive but weak against anything that isn't a fighter in 1v1
Frigates-Larger and stronger than fighters but slower and more expensive
Transport-Used to transport infantry onto other planets
Battleship-Larger than a frigate and can bombard and siege planets in large numbers
Dreadnought-Largest type of ship. All other ships deploy/launch from dreadnoughts. They can bombard/siege planets in a group of 2 or 3.

Then I think it should be broken down into a regiment system.
A battalion would have 5 slots so you could have every type of ship in a battalion.
(These numbers come from what I would think is balanced. In a perfect world, the player could choose the # of ships in a slot to save $)
1 slot of fighters would have 1000 fighters
1 slot of frigates would have 200 frigates
1 slot of transports would enough to transport around 15,000 infantry
1 slot of battleships would have 25 battleships
1 slot of dreadnought would have 1 dreadnought

Player of course could mix and match slots, so they could have a battalion of all fighters, 4 fighters and 1 frigate, etc.

Now each ship would be given a value of durability, shock and fire based on how they are made.
Durability is health
Shock is the initial barrage of attacks.
Fire is how long/effective the ships are over a period of time.

Players hopefully are able to customize their ships to the point of where dreadnoughts aren't durable but have loads of shock,fire etc.

The fleets would also need supplies, which would play a part in battles. If a fleet is defending a friendly planet they would get supplies, which in turn gives the fleets morale which lets them last longer before being defeated.
Supplies in non-combat terms would make it so that ships would need to dock or rest at friendly planets.

Now back to the battalion thing, a race's overall military strength would be determined by how many regiments of certain ships they have and in what balance. So a race with the most dreadnoughts might not necessarily have the strongest military.
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PostSubject: Re: Fleets and Stations   Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:29 pm

PTFace wrote:
I think it should go something like this:

You have 5 types of ships:

Fighters-Really light, inexpensive but weak against anything that isn't a fighter in 1v1
Frigates-Larger and stronger than fighters but slower and more expensive
Transport-Used to transport infantry onto other planets
Battleship-Larger than a frigate and can bombard and siege planets in large numbers
Dreadnought-Largest type of ship. All other ships deploy/launch from dreadnoughts. They can bombard/siege planets in a group of 2 or 3.

Then I think it should be broken down into a regiment system.
A battalion would have 5 slots so you could have every type of ship in a battalion.
(These numbers come from what I would think is balanced. In a perfect world, the player could choose the # of ships in a slot to save $)
1 slot of fighters would have 1000 fighters
1 slot of frigates would have 200 frigates
1 slot of transports would enough to transport around 15,000 infantry
1 slot of battleships would have 25 battleships
1 slot of dreadnought would have 1 dreadnought

Player of course could mix and match slots, so they could have a battalion of all fighters, 4 fighters and 1 frigate, etc.

Now each ship would be given a value of durability, shock and fire based on how they are made.
Durability is health
Shock is the initial barrage of attacks.
Fire is how long/effective the ships are over a period of time.

Players hopefully are able to customize their ships to the point of where dreadnoughts aren't durable but have loads of shock,fire etc.

The fleets would also need supplies, which would play a part in battles. If a fleet is defending a friendly planet they would get supplies, which in turn gives the fleets morale which lets them last longer before being defeated.
Supplies in non-combat terms would make it so that ships would need to dock or rest at friendly planets.

Now back to the battalion thing, a race's overall military strength would be determined by how many regiments of certain ships they have and in what balance. So a race with the most dreadnoughts might not necessarily have the strongest military.
maybe we could add flagships and capital ships to affect morale
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PostSubject: Re: Fleets and Stations   Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:30 pm

nziswat wrote:
Okay first of all, why the Belgium would you start with a *fighter* fleet it would be more realistic to make your own choices on what you would like to be in space first. Do you want 3 single person ships? A colony ship? We shouldn't start with a preset fleet. And another thing i pretty sure that your species wouldn't have the tech for weapons in space.
Secondly we will only be able to stay inside our galaxy, if you say that "Oh but its gonna be too small!" Well in another thread is was calculated that to visit each planet it would take many years of interrupted playing.
you make a good point but don't be offensive for no reason
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PostSubject: Re: Fleets and Stations   Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:40 pm

I think a race's capital ship should be the dreadnought that survived the most battles
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GmansWatching
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PostSubject: Re: Fleets and Stations   Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:01 pm

@PTFace
Thats s great idea. Just a few things to add though.

There should be different sections of buildable ships. Like, economic/diplomatic ships that are for settling treaties, greeting another race, and transports made for resource transport, etc. Worker ships that mine planets/asteroids. And the warships. All ships are able to be customized.

The capital ship should be the one that the player selects, and it gets buffed for being the capital ship.

And the player should also customize the ships as they please. Meaning the weapons, shielding, armor, everything. Giving them complete control. And the parts for ships should be made through blueprints found or made. Or parts could be salvaged from destroyed ships, so you could steal alien tech.
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ido66667
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PostSubject: Re: Fleets and Stations   Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:59 pm

Maintenance fee!

When you keep ships in your station You will have to give the station some fee.
The station itself can be an economical entity, Maybe a contractor compeny.
That means, That it will be subjected to tax, And can offer services for money.
The fee depends on the ship type...
Bigger ships (Exmple: Warships, Capital ships.) will be subjected to more fee...

P.S.
Great Idea, G - Man.

I want to randomly quote your wise words.

"Rise and shine, Mr. Freeman... Rise and Shine."
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PTFace
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PostSubject: Re: Fleets and Stations   Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:53 pm

Well the word "Fleet" has a sort of military connotation.

And back to the 1st post, I wanted to mention really quickly that you would obviously be able to have more than 1 battalion, made up of 5 regiments, and all your battalions added up is your fleet.

Now if you allow me to speculate, I think and interesting alliance-forging tool would be to have a strong fleet, mostly because races want strong allies, and I assume most combat in the galactic stage will be space combat. Having a high fleet rank would make getting allies easier, make it harder for people to declare war on you, easier for you to get your demands and an easier way to generally control the galaxy.

Now I came up with a crude formula to determine your fleet strength.

F1=Fighters
F2-Frigates
T-Transports
B-battleships
D-dreadnoughts
C-Capital Ships
The formula being:

# of F1(.2) + # of F2(1.1) + (# of transports +/- total infantry of your race*) +# of B(1.04) + # of D(2)(# of C)

*-If you have less infantry than your transports can carry, you lose score because you don't have a full garrison. The amount you would lose would be dependent on how many you can carry- infantry you have ready.

Now I came up with this using the numbers I posted in the original fleet idea I had.

Basically, I assume frigates will be a major part of your fleet as they probably do more damage against a wider array of opponents than fighters.

Since the # of fighters you have in a theoretical regiment is 1000 while the frigates have 200, there comes in the .2 x F1.

The reason you would multiply F2 by 1.1 is because while there being a lot less, frigates would most likely be where the most firepower comes in from during space combat, mostly due to their versatility (especially in quantity) vs other spacecraft.

Transports is not multiplied because mostly their role in combat is not direct; instead they deliver troops. However since they can be armed they do have some impact. The infantry+/- thing comes into play if you have too many active transports in your battalions, which leads to wasted resources because you are overspending on transports that you don't have enough troops to fit in.

You multiply 1.04 for battleships because in a perfect world, 1 regiment of battleships could destroy or heavily damage a dreadnought. The reason you multiply by 1.04 is because while technically having more firepower than frigates, battleships would be less suited for fighting in space combat, and play a more supportive/artillery war vs frigates, other battleships and dreads and also functions as the most inexpensive form of starting a planetary siege.

Dreadnoughts are kind of self explanatory. Due to the fact they are expensive and the best form of siege weapons, and due the fact that ships can deploy from them, they get the highest multiplier. But because of the fact that dreads are so limited in number, the 2x multiplier barely matters, and the capital ship multiplier can boost the multiplier even further.
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ido66667
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PostSubject: Re: Fleets and Stations   Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:01 pm


More about the fees!

Room fee.
Fee for storing the ship, The bigger the ship, The more it will be subjected to.
Your total Fee for storing a ship in a station is.
Room fee + Maintenance fee - a discount if it is gov owned station.
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PTFace
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PostSubject: Re: Fleets and Stations   Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:12 pm

PTFace wrote:
Nonsensical post

Part 2: Fleet prestige

Basically prestige has more of a diplomatic factor.

No formula currently, but it would be calculated more on victories over losses, fleet sizer and HEAVY INFLUENCE ON DREADNOUGHTS.

Militaristic governments like dictatorships care more about strength while empires care more about prestige, with republic/theocracies caring more about a balance.

Prestige would be more fluid. For example, in PTFace's imaginary perfect Thrive, mobilizing cargo ships as fighters or using transports as a fighting force rater than TRANSPORTS would reduce prestige.

Thoughts?
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GmansWatching
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PostSubject: Re: Fleets and Stations   Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:23 pm

Much to respond to D:
@PTFace & ido66667
Making a chart to sort all this out.
Based on what info on ships here, what would be the base management cost for each type of ship?
So the fleet power wouldn't be the ships attacks but their strength? And is the strength based on each individual ship or each regiment of that ship? Also i dont understand the purpose of prestige, explain?
Personally id base fleet power by the total attack. And each ship has a weakness to another kind of ship. And the ship it is weak against gets an attack bonus.
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PTFace
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PostSubject: Re: Fleets and Stations   Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:43 pm

"So the fleet power wouldn't be the ships attacks but their strength? And is the strength based on each individual ship or each regiment of that ship? Also i dont understand the purpose of prestige, explain?"

Fleet power is essentially how many ships you have. Each type of ship would have its individual durability, shock and fire. If you look at the Total War series, this has been done, minus the customization part. Each ship would have maybe 50 health with 2 fire and 3 shock, and like Total War, a
weaker fleet can still beat the higher scoring one.

Prestige is basically the same as strength, but more diplomatic and based on how many heavy ships you have and the battles you have won. Certain government types respect prestige more than strength.

"And each ship has a weakness to another kind of ship. And the ship it is weak against gets an attack bonus."

Basically thats what shock and fire is. Shock is the initial barrage where most fighters and some frigates are destroyed, fire being where battleships and dreads take turns shooting.

Shock is the first ~30 seconds of a fight where, like I said, shots are being fired all across the screen, while fire takes longer to play out and would take anywhere from a minute to an hour before its over.

I came up with another idea where instead of all ships attack at once, the types of ships all takes turns.

For example, the fighters attack each other, and the surviving fighters help the frigates attack the enemy frigates, the frigates help the battleships attack the enemy's, and the battleships help the dreads kill the enemy dreads.

The 2nd option would basically be a tug of war game.

Also weaknesses depend on the ship. A frigate is good against other frigates, for example, but enough fighters can destroy frigates

The easiest to understand example is that dreads can devastate frigates, battleships and hold their own against other dreads, but having 1000 fighters attacking 1 dread would kill it in a matter of seconds, hence the reason of needing balanced battalions.
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PostSubject: Re: Fleets and Stations   Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:13 am

Never played Total War T_T (rubbish computers. (ive played supreme commander if that matters ))
Still lost. But significantly less. I like the first option, even though id prefer a full on war RTS style with guns firing everywhere

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PostSubject: Re: Fleets and Stations   Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:23 am

Well basically in total war each individual soldier in a unit of 50 has, for example,2 health, 3 attack and 1 defense, which is how I think the regiments should work.
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PostSubject: Re: Fleets and Stations   Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:38 am

I want to ask...
What do you think about my station fees?
Can I improve them in anyway?
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GmansWatching
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PostSubject: Re: Fleets and Stations   Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:11 am

@PTFace & ido66667
The fee should be just the ship (room fee???) + maintence that just subtracts money (if you have currency) (like in Civilization 5). And you should have 1 free station that stores a specific amount with no added cost. And after, you'll either have to build more space on the station or another station. OR use a companys station but it will cost quite a bit. (just ideas)

So the unit altogether has 100HP, 150ATK and 50DEF??
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ido66667
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PostSubject: Re: Fleets and Stations   Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:06 am

GmansWatching wrote:
@PTFace & ido66667
The fee should be just the ship (room fee???) + maintence that just subtracts money (if you have currency) (like in Civilization 5). And you should have 1 free station that stores a specific amount with no added cost. And after, you'll either have to build more space on the station or another station. OR use a companys station but it will cost quite a bit. (just ideas)

So the unit altogether has 100HP, 150ATK and 50DEF??

Storing Fee*

But, I don't think that there is a station without even a Maintence fee that is subjected to the ship... That would be kind of unrealistic.
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PostSubject: Re: Fleets and Stations   Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:11 pm

GmansWatching wrote:
@PTFace & ido66667
The fee should be just the ship (room fee???) + maintence that just subtracts money (if you have currency) (like in Civilization 5). And you should have 1 free station that stores a specific amount with no added cost. And after, you'll either have to build more space on the station or another station. OR use a companys station but it will cost quite a bit. (just ideas)

So the unit altogether has 100HP, 150ATK and 50DEF??

Yes, but in the context of thrive if they were fighters then it would be 2000 health 3000 atk and 1000 def
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PostSubject: Re: Fleets and Stations   Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:07 pm

"Storing Fee*

But, I don't think that there is a station without even a Maintence fee that is subjected to the ship... That would be kind of unrealistic."

Im unsure what you're saying. Do you mean a fee for the station itself and/or a continuous fee for the ship?

"Yes, but in the context of thrive if they were fighters then it would be 2000 health 3000 atk and 1000 def"

Ah alright. And thats only a unit of fighters
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PostSubject: Re: Fleets and Stations   Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:51 am

GmansWatching wrote:
"Storing Fee*

But, I don't think that there is a station without even a Maintence fee that is subjected to the ship... That would be kind of unrealistic."

Im unsure what you're saying. Do you mean a fee for the station itself and/or a continuous fee for the ship?

"Yes, but in the context of thrive if they were fighters then it would be 2000 health 3000 atk and 1000 def"

Ah alright. And thats only a unit of fighters

The fee is when you place the ship on the station.
And think about it, Free Maintence?
BTW, It will also be good that there will be a fee for the crow (If you are paying your army/crow).
But when you enter a station and store your ship in there, you get more fee, for fixes, and for the room your ship fills in the station, I gov stations you get less, But it may not be as good like a private one, So we can do that the ship gets a bit of damege.

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PostSubject: Re: Fleets and Stations   Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:06 am

Intresting would be a part system. Yust get different sized parts and put them together to create different spaceships and give them different roles. Then the size would also determ, what you can put on them. Small or huge cargo container, crew quarters, engines and weapons as example. The size of the ship should be defined by the number of parts u put on the vehicle. If its a fighter, a cruiser, a dreadnought or what else should be defined by the player self. Yust like the vehicles. The game Kerbal Space Program actually has such a part program. Okay, should be eventually a bit more simple here, because it doesn't only deals with space travel.
But think we should forget, that war isn't everything. So the ability to configure who many enemies, etc. should be in the game should be possible at least at start of the game, for player who want a more peacefully game. ^^
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