Miscellaneous Bugs And Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

Speaking on the matter of helping you out besides trial-error learning experiences is that if your creatures die in mass numbers, some that survive could develop a trait quickly that could help ameliorate the declining situation that you caused.

This can be scientifically accurate because in high stress, newly birthed animals can be born with "mutations" that sometimes can or cannot be passed down genetically. Usually these "mutations" are disguised as disorders and malignancies but can help out in situations. An example is that a theory has been brought up that ADHD was spawned when humans needed to act quickly when fending off wild creatures and gave them a better chance of survival.

Maybe this could have a disadvantage. Example: ADHD is not good in our society where we sit down a lot and our lifestyle is a lot more inactive, so it creates problems. Therefore in the game you could be punished for keeping these "Helpful Freebies" for too long to be accurate and also make the game more balanced.

Ok, so I know that the focus for now is terrestrial life, but I had this idea and I want to share it just to get it out there. This is dealing with life on gas giant planets and how it could evolve, I don't know if anyone has ever suggested something like this before.

So, the scene is a gas giant, down in the layers of heavy gases, there are microbes that can ride the pseudo-tides with vacuoles filled with lighter gases if they cannot simply ride them on their own. These microbes feed on small organic matter that floats in the gas, or on each other, through engulfing. Photosynthesis is next to useless, thermosynthesis and chemosynthesis not much better.

As these microbes start gluing together, they start evolving small pockets from vacuoles containing lighter gases so as to float on the tides of gas, catching smaller microbes as they are carried along, essentially a primitive filter feeder.

Eventually you have a small organism that is filled with light gas, that floats in a layer where it is kept buoyant by its gas pockets, and has an orifice that contracts to suck in the microbes and small organisms, a filter feeding "plant." It cannot move on its own, and expels its waste from its opposite end, replenishing the gas around it with organic matter. These can most likely get larger and not have problems as long as they evolve the right flotation methods using the gas available.

This is where mobile organic life comes in, mobile organisms would have to be filter feeders as well in early stages, competing with the sedentary organisms for food, or being the food. They would most likely evolve a passive way to remain buoyant as the sedentary organisms did, sacks filled with lighter gases that keep them afloat. Getting larger, these organisms can actually start preying upon the sedentary ones, no doubt keeping the populations of these organisms in line.

The other issue would be senses, there is nothing but thick gas to see, so conventional vision is out, but there is still an atmosphere, so sonar and echolocation to get about and see prey would probably be the way to go.

Sentient organisms might evolve, they would most likely float, and prey upon sedentary and mobile feeders alike, but would be limited to using their own limbs or even weapons made from bone if that is possible in Thrive. Actually, it is entirely unlikely for sapience using tools, as skeletons might not evolve on a gas giant, sapience might not evolve at all for all I know for sure.

Well, that's all I got, did I do well, copy someone else's idea, or just simply fail?

Immortal_Dragon wrote:

Ok, so I know that the focus for now is terrestrial life, but I had this idea and I want to share it just to get it out there. This is dealing with life on gas giant planets and how it could evolve, I don't know if anyone has ever suggested something like this before.

So, the scene is a gas giant, down in the layers of heavy gases, there are microbes that can ride the pseudo-tides with vacuoles filled with lighter gases if they cannot simply ride them on their own. These microbes feed on small organic matter that floats in the gas, or on each other, through engulfing. Photosynthesis is next to useless, thermosynthesis and chemosynthesis not much better.

As these microbes start gluing together, they start evolving small pockets from vacuoles containing lighter gases so as to float on the tides of gas, catching smaller microbes as they are carried along, essentially a primitive filter feeder.

Eventually you have a small organism that is filled with light gas, that floats in a layer where it is kept buoyant by its gas pockets, and has an orifice that contracts to suck in the microbes and small organisms, a filter feeding "plant." It cannot move on its own, and expels its waste from its opposite end, replenishing the gas around it with organic matter. These can most likely get larger and not have problems as long as they evolve the right flotation methods using the gas available.

This is where mobile organic life comes in, mobile organisms would have to be filter feeders as well in early stages, competing with the sedentary organisms for food, or being the food. They would most likely evolve a passive way to remain buoyant as the sedentary organisms did, sacks filled with lighter gases that keep them afloat. Getting larger, these organisms can actually start preying upon the sedentary ones, no doubt keeping the populations of these organisms in line.

The other issue would be senses, there is nothing but thick gas to see, so conventional vision is out, but there is still an atmosphere, so sonar and echolocation to get about and see prey would probably be the way to go.

Sentient organisms might evolve, they would most likely float, and prey upon sedentary and mobile feeders alike, but would be limited to using their own limbs or even weapons made from bone if that is possible in Thrive. Actually, it is entirely unlikely for sapience using tools, as skeletons might not evolve on a gas giant, sapience might not evolve at all for all I know for sure.

Well, that's all I got, did I do well, copy someone else's idea, or just simply fail?

There's some interesting ideas you have there.

WilliamstheJohn wrote:

Immortal_Dragon wrote:

Ok, so I know that the focus for now is terrestrial life, but I had this idea and I want to share it just to get it out there. This is dealing with life on gas giant planets and how it could evolve, I don't know if anyone has ever suggested something like this before.

So, the scene is a gas giant, down in the layers of heavy gases, there are microbes that can ride the pseudo-tides with vacuoles filled with lighter gases if they cannot simply ride them on their own. These microbes feed on small organic matter that floats in the gas, or on each other, through engulfing. Photosynthesis is next to useless, thermosynthesis and chemosynthesis not much better.

As these microbes start gluing together, they start evolving small pockets from vacuoles containing lighter gases so as to float on the tides of gas, catching smaller microbes as they are carried along, essentially a primitive filter feeder.

Eventually you have a small organism that is filled with light gas, that floats in a layer where it is kept buoyant by its gas pockets, and has an orifice that contracts to suck in the microbes and small organisms, a filter feeding "plant." It cannot move on its own, and expels its waste from its opposite end, replenishing the gas around it with organic matter. These can most likely get larger and not have problems as long as they evolve the right flotation methods using the gas available.

This is where mobile organic life comes in, mobile organisms would have to be filter feeders as well in early stages, competing with the sedentary organisms for food, or being the food. They would most likely evolve a passive way to remain buoyant as the sedentary organisms did, sacks filled with lighter gases that keep them afloat. Getting larger, these organisms can actually start preying upon the sedentary ones, no doubt keeping the populations of these organisms in line.

The other issue would be senses, there is nothing but thick gas to see, so conventional vision is out, but there is still an atmosphere, so sonar and echolocation to get about and see prey would probably be the way to go.

Sentient organisms might evolve, they would most likely float, and prey upon sedentary and mobile feeders alike, but would be limited to using their own limbs or even weapons made from bone if that is possible in Thrive. Actually, it is entirely unlikely for sapience using tools, as skeletons might not evolve on a gas giant, sapience might not evolve at all for all I know for sure.

Well, that's all I got, did I do well, copy someone else's idea, or just simply fail?

There's some interesting ideas you have there.

Thank you.

WilliamsTheJohn, please don't quote the post directly before yours to reply to it, especially when it's a long post and all you're going to say is "Good ideas".

Ok, so on that note, is there any way the idea could be improved, or made more plausible then?

It's really hard to tell at this point in development. That's why we're leaving it until after we finish terrestrial life.

Good enough for me, did what I intended to do, get the idea out there.

EDIT: Although, in my opinion, it wouldn't hurt to outline or whatever term matches the nature of the idea I proposed, the process of life on a gas giant so that how it could work is already hashed out when it is decided that it is time to work on them.

I made a post on a similar topic, on the previous page, (that was also left unanswered), so if you want more detail on my question please refer to that.

But my question is this: What are going to be the Customization limits in thrive? In spore you can create vehicles and buildings to some extent, are we going to be able to create our own vehicles and buildings as well? and also (in the later stages) are we going to be able to Customize our troops equipment and tools?

Lightning_Scarz wrote:

I made a post on a similar topic, on the previous page, (that was also left unanswered), so if you want more detail on my question please refer to that.

But my question is this: What are going to be the Customization limits in thrive? In spore you can create vehicles and buildings to some extent, are we going to be able to create our own vehicles and buildings as well? and also (in the later stages) are we going to be able to Customize our troops equipment and tools?

You will be able to customize all of these using your own creations. So you will be able to create some really cool things.

How linear will scientific discovery be? Will different creatures be limited to one tech path? Is it possible to lose?

There is a whole tree for technology research, and creatures will only be limited to techs by their cost, and how they are implemented on the player's planet really.

What do you mean by lose? You can't lose tech, but you can lose the ability to make Tech Objects I think, even if temporarily.

If you mean lose as in a game over then that is possible when your species goes extinct, or your nation is entirely exterminated.

I meant lose as in game over. Sorry for confusing you.

It's no problem, that's why I answered both possibilities.

EDIT: Although now I have a question too.

1. Can clothing be made from the hides of other creatures, and similarly if they have fur?

I had a second question but I seem to have forgotten it.

Immortal_Dragon wrote:

Although now I have a question too.

1. Can clothing be made from the hides of other creatures, and similarly if they have fur?

I had a second question but I seem to have forgotten it.

As of now, no plans for actual clothes exist that I know of. Amour is a feature that will be added in the middle stages of society development, once the bulk of the tech editor and combat systems has been made. These would obviously have a function in combat. Regular citizen clothes would be pointless and hard to implement.

Thank you for answering to the best of your knowledge Tarpy.

I was discussing my idea for life on gas giants with my sibling, and they offered some insight. A very small creature could actually survive near the core due to its small size allowing it to resist the pressures. Thermosynthesis could actually work down that far due to the insulation of the gas and friction of the heavier gases. Photosynthesis could work as a supplement to filter feeding on the higher levels of the gas as well.

And again, I know that the focus for now is on terrestrial life, but I believe it wouldn't hurt to share this. And if anyone has something to improve or make this more correct scientifically, that would be most appreciated.

Tarpy wrote:

Immortal_Dragon wrote:

Although now I have a question too.

1. Can clothing be made from the hides of other creatures, and similarly if they have fur?

I had a second question but I seem to have forgotten it.

As of now, no plans for actual clothes exist that I know of. Amour is a feature that will be added in the middle stages of society development, once the bulk of the tech editor and combat systems has been made. These would obviously have a function in combat. Regular citizen clothes would be pointless and hard to implement.

True, but it would be awkward to see an entire empire running around naked. maybe the devs could come up with something like auto-evo, but a lesser version for clothes?

Lightning_Scarz wrote:

Tarpy wrote:

Immortal_Dragon wrote:

Although now I have a question too.

1. Can clothing be made from the hides of other creatures, and similarly if they have fur?

I had a second question but I seem to have forgotten it.

As of now, no plans for actual clothes exist that I know of. Amour is a feature that will be added in the middle stages of society development, once the bulk of the tech editor and combat systems has been made. These would obviously have a function in combat. Regular citizen clothes would be pointless and hard to implement.

True, but it would be awkward to see an entire empire running around naked. maybe the devs could come up with something like auto-evo, but a lesser version for clothes?

Well, it would also be weird for being able to advance from the stone age to space in something like 3-4 hours (probably, we're still not sure how long an average society stage game would take).

This would be quite hard to implement unless we just took a texture and put it over the creature. It would still be hard due to the fact that the game would have to determine where to put the textures. Also, since you would be in birds eye view, you would very rarely get to see such a small detail.

Remember, programmers cannot just wave a magic wand and implement such features. There are also other much more important features, and clothes will be at the bottom of our todo list once we get to the society stage.

While trying to keep up with the information overflow I experience by aiming to get to a status in which I might finally become somewhat helpful for the development of Thrive, there are some more or less sporadic questions that jumped into my mind which I would like to ask here (sorted loosely by topic):

- Microbe / multicellular stage:
1. What exactly will be the difference between microbe and multicellular stage?
2. What kinds of effects will the characteristics of the planet you play on have during the microbe / multicellular stage?

- Creature / organism stage:
3. Is there going to be some sort of an immune system system in the game?^^
4. In which way will the gameplay in creature/organism stage affect the evolution on the planet?

- Society stage and higher (possibly including space stage):
5. Would it be possible for (computer controlled) creature species to become so large and/or dangerous that they would still impose a threat during the society or higher stages?
6. Would it be possible to create some sort of zoo or exhibit for creatures? Aside from being a fun element, this could bring boni for domestication by cattle breeding, science by examining the creatures or straightforward entertainment of citizens.
7. Would it be possible to create some sort of surveillance state? If yes, what effects would that have? Would the effects also be dependent of the current level of technology your species has acquired? (This is also a thought inspired by the brain plug thing discussion from page 35)
8. Would it be possible to use carnivorous or otherwise dangerous plants to strengthen fortifications with them?
9. Assuming that there will be some sort of government system: Will there be a political oppisition in some cases? If yes, what gameplay effects would that have?
10. Would your equipped soldiers still be able to use their "creature" abilities originating from the creature/organism stage to fight each other? If yes, would that also enable more spectacular infantry battles between opposing space nations? (Admittably, the last sentence seems rather redundant. But I like the imagination it creates in my mind, so I will just leave it there :P)
11. Would it be possible for vehicle desings to have multiple autonom engines to offer a substitute-mode-of-movement once the currently used engine becomes too damaged / inappropriate for the terrain type of the path the vehicle is told to cross?
12. Would corruption play a role in the game?
13. Regarding big cities / metropoles, it would seem a bit awkward to me if they were consisting of the same type of appartment building repeated numerous types. On the other hand, having the player to create every single fragment of a whole civilization seems a bit overkill to me, so the question is: How many types of creations would the player have to create in the editors and to what extent will there be a possibility for the player to give his species "voluntary" unique and variated in-depth designs in terms of infrastructure, industry, aforementioned fortifications etc. ?

- Space stage:
14. Would it be possible for an extremely highly technologised AI-controlled nation to reach ascension?
15. Would it be possible to attach engines to comets to get a mobile template that could be further expanded to a mobile space fortress (depending on the comets size) / special kind of space ship / just a piloted projectile to crash into your arch-enemy's home planet?

- Miscellaneous:
16. What if you control a species that can look into different directions with its eyes? Would that be represented on the screen by splitting it in parts? Otherwise, what effect would that have on gameplay?
17.

NickTheNick wrote:

I don't think we will have a dynamic system keeping track of air flow and scent wafting.

Is that still the case? I am by no means an expert, but afaik air flows from cold to warm areas near the ground and in the opposite direction in higher levels. Taking the planet's temperature zones in count, wouldn't that enable a primitive, but seemingly efficient estimation of named air flow and scent wafting?
18. To what extent is there going to be a liquid simulation / variation by different types of liquids?
19. As far as I have read yet, an endangered population has a higher chance of evolving due to the small number of specimen and the resulting higher impact of an occurred mutation. However, discussing the topic of evolution in my biology class, my teacher was of the opinion that a reduced number of speciment would rather decrease the change of evolving because the consequently reduced number of births would lead to a smaller [number and thus] probability of mutations to occur. Regarding that you have had quite certainly a deeper contact with such topics than me, what is your opinion to this controversy?

The Multicellular stage begins when your cell first bonds with another cell of its species to form a colony or organism.
The planet you are on will not really affect the first two stages because they mostly take place in the ocean near a hydrothermal vent.

Immune systems and disease are currently not planned, but can be added in in a future release once the groundwork for the aware stage is finished.
The population dynamics system would most likely answer that, and I'm not well acquainted with it.

Yes, but it's not very practical for an organism to go past a certain size because the amount of energy they would consume would not be able to be realistically supplied from their environment or their body's ability to hunt.
Yes, animals can be both domesticated, studied, or just kept in exhibits.
If you mean like a dystopian state such as Orwell's 1984, you can achieve such a thing but it will not go into that much detail. Freedom sliders for religion, social, and economic freedoms reflect the policies of your state.
Yes, if your species planted them in strategic positions to attack any organism that passed through. However, it's not a very practical defensive technique.
No political opposition. Only the possibility of rebellions in cities with low stability.
Yes, they can still use their creature abilities. 
More engines will only mean more horsepower. It will be the wheels/tracks or whatever that determine movement on terrain.
Corruption won't be in the game.
The player can design buildings, but they can also choose from presets. Cities can start automating construction of buildings once the player discovers a certain tech. 

No, only the player can reach ascensions. Otherwise the player could potentially lose in the Microbe Stage, plus it's only meant for the player to be able to manipulate the galaxy from a God Mode POV. There's no point in letting AI get there.
Possibly, that concept hasn't been fleshed out yet. Probably not at first but to be added in to a later release.

Yes, it would split the screen, but that would be really disorienting so I would recommend to any player not to do that.
Only the part of the planet in the vicinity of the player's organism is simulated at a time, while the rest undergoes population dynamics. Also, simulating the flow of air across an entire planet seems like an extremely difficult thing to code in or even conceptualize, and I don't know if the warm-cold rule is enough for that. Weathermen today can barely predict the weather accurately more than a day in advance, with most of it being assumptions.  
There is some discussion to have simple fluid dynamics in the microbe, multicellular, and aware stages.
The last question I'll leave someone better qualified to answer.

NickTheNick wrote:

Huge Post of Awesomeness and Awnsers

While I know that when we will be able to become a multi cellular organism, Can we stay as a Single cellular, and then be like a Plague or Virus, and just infect a multicellular organism and use their body as their own? One example of this would be Cymothoa Exigua ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cymothoa_exigua ) Or another example being Ophiocordyceps unilateralis ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophiocordyceps_unilateralis ) Where they use the bodies of other organisms, while being relatively small to them, and use them to its advantage in reproduction, feeding, or any other works?

No.

EDIT: Let me elaborate, yes you can stay as a single cell, but you will eternally be in the primordial tidepool. Adding a whole new path to the game where you become a virus or bacteria is both not possible because those are different than what the player is playing as, and it would also require the internals of other organisms on a cellular level, which is not only ludicrous to expect but would make your computer commit suicide.

So were still using ogre or do you want to use overgrowth's engine?

Jimexmore wrote:

So were still using ogre or do you want to use overgrowth's engine?

This is a zero budget game. Therefore, no proprietary engines such as Phoenix.

AlexaiZ wrote:

Jimexmore wrote:

So were still using ogre or do you want to use overgrowth's engine?

This is a zero budget game. Therefore, no proprietary engines such as Phoenix.

I have connections. I could get it then distribute it.
I asked that question because of that advanced melee combat system it has.