Color of Chlorophil

Forgive my terrible spelling.

Now, this is more my double-checking than anything. To my knowledge, most chlorophil is green because our sun is yellow. The spectrum of EMR our sun gives off means that green is the color that takes up just enough sunlight to survive and thrive, but not s much the plant overheats. As such, I think that the following would be the case on other worlds: A bluish sun would have more reddish foliage, and a Redish sun would have the opposite.

Anyone?

I think this one thing we will just have to code in without really allowing the auto-evo to change it. Each star could be tagged with what type of chloraphyl would be ideal on the planets that orbit them, and that is just the color that it would be, no arguing. Letting auto-evo change it means we have to make light actually matter in evolution, and that is getting too detailed for it to be worth the time and memory to actually code into the game. All in favor?

Poisson wrote:

I think this one thing we will just have to code in without really allowing the auto-evo to change it. Each star could be tagged with what type of chloraphyl would be ideal on the planets that orbit them, and that is just the color that it would be, no arguing. Letting auto-evo change it means we have to make light actually matter in evolution, and that is getting too detailed for it to be worth the time and memory to actually code into the game. All in favor?

Aye.

Any thoughts on color?

Tenebrarum wrote:

Poisson wrote:

I think this one thing we will just have to code in without really allowing the auto-evo to change it. Each star could be tagged with what type of chloraphyl would be ideal on the planets that orbit them, and that is just the color that it would be, no arguing. Letting auto-evo change it means we have to make light actually matter in evolution, and that is getting too detailed for it to be worth the time and memory to actually code into the game. All in favor?

Aye.

Any thoughts on color?

Can you do a little research? I know red leaves pick up transmitted light better than green ones.

~sciocont wrote:

Can you do a little research? I know red leaves pick up transmitted light better than green ones.

Those are the only colors found here on Earth, there's no more research to be done, only conjesture.

Well get us some scientist conjecture. I'm sure it's out there.

US_of_Alaska wrote:

Well get us some scientist conjecture. I'm sure it's out there.

I spent the last couple weekends searching. There really isn't anything out there.

Tenebrarum wrote:

US_of_Alaska wrote:

Well get us some scientist conjecture. I'm sure it's out there.

I spent the last couple weekends searching. There really isn't anything out there.

Really? I could have sworn we had a whole article somewhere back on Svenolutions!

US_of_Alaska wrote:

Tenebrarum wrote:

US_of_Alaska wrote:

Well get us some scientist conjecture. I'm sure it's out there.

I spent the last couple weekends searching. There really isn't anything out there.

Really? I could have sworn we had a whole article somewhere back on Svenolutions!

If that's true, feel free to smack my lazy belgium.

Quick research so that we can make educated guesses...
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Emissions spectra of our sun

Since the red end of the spectrum (heading towards infrared) has the longest wavelength, and the purple/blue area (heading towards ultraviolet) has the shortest, and white and blue stars are more intense than red ones, I'm guessing that the pigments will line up like this:
Red star = purplish pigment. Very dark, to soak up as much radiation as possible, since the'll be recieving less intense light, and loosing as little of it as possible. There will be some variations in pigmentation, just like on earth.
Orange Star = bluish leaves. A more intense star, so the color reflected is closer to the star's color in the spectrum.
Yellow Star = green, see above reason.

However, I don't know about the green and blue stars (not to mention the brown ones) because as the wavelength gets more intense, darker colors will protect more from UV, but the pigments will probably have to be close enough to the light emitted that they reflect a lot of light back to keep the plant from overheating.

maybe someone else will get an idea from this.

Necropost is Necro.

Basically, I just came back from lab and have data now on what colors of light are absorbed and which ones transmitted in a pigment. I'll highlight the ones my lab gave me - the rest is deduction.

Absorbed (nm) Transmitted/Reflected (nm)
Red (~680-740nm) Greenish, probably still blue green
Orange (~620-680nm) Blue Green
Yellow Orange (~600-620nm) Blue
Yellow (~580-600nm) Blue Violet (~440-460nm)
Yellow Green (~560-580nm) Violet (~420-440nm)
Green (~540-560nm) Purple
Blue Green (~500-540nm) Red (~680-740nm)Blue (~460-500nm) Orange (~620-680nm)
Blue Violet (~440-460nm) Yellow-orange
Violet (~420-440nm) Yellow (~580-600nm)
Purple (~380-400nm) Green (~540-560nm)

Anyhow, this can be used as a chlorophyll guide because the Transmitted light is the leaf's visible color, and the Absorbed Light is the wavelengths that it wants to absorb. If leaves are maximized to the dominant color being put out of their star, or something pretty close, we have chlorophyll sorted with this handy chart.
Notice that multiple pigmentations are possible - on earth, plum-colored (purple, according to my chem book) leaves are not as common as green leaves, but we definitely have a range of yellow green through blue green leaves, which match up well with a star primarily putting out yellow light. They're enough out of phase to prevent overheating.

Star Color: Red Leaf Absorbtions: Blue Violet, violet, purple Leaf Color Orange, Yellow orange, yellow
Star Color: Orange Leaf Absorbtions: Violet, purple, red Leaf Color: yellow orange, yellow, yellow green
Star Color: Yellow Orange Leaf Absorbtions: Purple, red, Orange Leaf Color: yellow, yellow-green, green
Star Color: Yellow, leaf Absorbtions: Red, orange- yellow orange, purple leaf coloryellow green, green, blue green
Star Color: Yellow Green, Leaf Absorbtions: Red, Orange, Yellow, Leaf color: green, blue green, blue
Star Color: Green, Leaf Absorbtions: Orange, Yellow, Yellow Green, Leaf color: Blue green, blue, blue violet
Star Color: Green blue Leaf Absorbtions: Yellow, Yellow Green, Green Leaf Color: Blue, blue violet, Purple
Star Color: Blue, Leaf Absorbtions: Yellow Green, Green, Blue Green, Leaf Color: Blue Violet, Violet, Purple, maybe some red
Star Color: blue Violet Leaf Absorbtions: Green, Blue Green, Blue Leaf Color: Violet, Purple, Red

Isn't there a reason for green leaves though? There has to be some sort of optimal color. What amounts of energy is each pigment absorbing?

Why even bother with stuff like optimal color? I don't think anyone will check if the color of our leaves scientifically matches the color of the sun. We can just assign a list of leaf colors to each star color (wich Calli already did), and then select from this list randomly.

Commander Keen wrote:

Why even bother with stuff like optimal color? I don't think anyone will check if the color of our leaves scientifically matches the color of the sun. We can just assign a list of leaf colors to each star color (wich Calli already did), and then select from this list randomly.

Yes, but undergrowth leaves on earth usually have a red pigment instead of green, and the data shows us that this is because red leaves soak up more high-wavelength light which penetrates to the undergrowth whereas red light does not. Why is this important? It's due to this exact effect that we are able to have this conversation at all. Red leaves are more nutritious, which is why color vision evolved in primates, which allows humans to see in color.\

I have waited a long time for this data.

But yes, shortcut is probably the best method.

List with some notes:

Spoiler:

Quote :

Why even bother with stuff like optimal color? I don't think anyone will check if the color of our leaves scientifically matches the color of the sun. We can just assign a list of leaf colors to each star color (wich Calli already did), and then select from this list randomly.

Sure, they wont check. It really doesn't matter, but it's something to evolve towards. Otherwise, if nothing's better than anything else, it will be random.

I agree with keen and roadkill. its really unnessecary to go into such tiny details.

I'm for this. I'm just saying that one needs to absorb more energy than another, so we need data on that.

I think it would be interesting, and simple for an organism to optimize to.

roadkillguy wrote:

Quote :

Why even bother with stuff like optimal color? I don't think anyone will check if the color of our leaves scientifically matches the color of the sun. We can just assign a list of leaf colors to each star color (wich Calli already did), and then select from this list randomly.

Sure, they wont check. It really doesn't matter, but it's something to evolve towards. Otherwise, if nothing's better than anything else, it will be random.

Yeah, a simple table would do. It's just really cool that we know what would happen, you know?

~sciocont wrote:

Had notes on my longpost

These are primary wavelengths of light being transmitted by a star, so I covered all my bases in case the primarily transmitted wavelengths were not the same as the visible star color. (Not a Physics major.)

As for Reflected/Transmitted light, they're the same thing. Our lab happened to refer to it as Transmitted light, so I copy-pasta'd it.

Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote:

~sciocont wrote:

Had notes on my longpost

These are primary wavelengths of light being transmitted by a star, so I covered all my bases in case the primarily transmitted wavelengths were not the same as the visible star color. (Not a Physics major.)

As for Reflected/Transmitted light, they're the same thing. Our lab happened to refer to it as Transmitted light, so I copy-pasta'd it.

Extra colours could be used for biome-pods (artificial light, could be tinted?), for creating biomes of custom plant colour.

It would be interesting for the player to set up lots of them with different light and see the different colours the plants become, and educational.

It's not so much that they turn colors, as that when evolving plants which were a certain color survived because they had the right kind of pigment to absorb the appropriate wavelengths from their star....

Sure. Do it for the science fair, Tenebrarum.

Hey, the detail is there in case we need it. And my idea was simply to hardcode star color = leaf color, to prevent spore-esque planetary painting. And to keep it visually interesting, depending on the kind of graphics we end up choosing.

Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote:

It's not so much that they turn colors, as that when evolving plants which were a certain color survived because they had the right kind of pigment to absorb the appropriate wavelengths from their star....

Sure. Do it for the science fair, Tenebrarum.

Hey, the detail is there in case we need it. And my idea was simply to hardcode star color = leaf color, to prevent spore-esque planetary painting. And to keep it visually interesting, depending on the kind of graphics we end up choosing.

Exactly my point. I'm just trying to avoid awkward dissonence between different plant species on a planet a la spore. It doesn't have to be ultra-correct, just a neat little nod to real science. Very minimal. I agree with hard coding star color to chlorophil color. It's just a matter of doing a spot of research and making a list.

Tenebrarum wrote:

Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote:

It's not so much that they turn colors, as that when evolving plants which were a certain color survived because they had the right kind of pigment to absorb the appropriate wavelengths from their star....

Sure. Do it for the science fair, Tenebrarum.

Hey, the detail is there in case we need it. And my idea was simply to hardcode star color = leaf color, to prevent spore-esque planetary painting. And to keep it visually interesting, depending on the kind of graphics we end up choosing.

Exactly my point. I'm just trying to avoid awkward dissonence between different plant species on a planet a la spore. It doesn't have to be ultra-correct, just a neat little nod to real science. Very minimal. I agree with hard coding star color to chlorophil color. It's just a matter of doing a spot of research and making a list.

This reminds me that i still need to do atmospheric maths.

~sciocont wrote:

This reminds me that i still need to do atmospheric maths.

Ohey! Would it be feasable to predict a few differences for atmospheric colors too?