feudal monarchy

feudal monarchy as a goverment it could work like the governors in this topic https://thrivegame.canadaboard.net/t225-goveners-in-scs .you can appoint them like governors but onse you give your city in a vassal you cant take it back .the vassal gives or money or military support. they atr prone to rebelion if you dont chose them well

Okay, this has been discussed. Right off the bat governers will be appointed to SCs by the player. Succession from then on functions as it would for national leaders, just on a smaller scale.

Tenebrarum wrote:

Okay, this has been discussed. Right off the bat governers will be appointed to SCs by the player. Succession from then on functions as it would for national leaders, just on a smaller scale.

so when you appoint them you cant controll you city. then my suggestion is wont work

bill2505 wrote:

Tenebrarum wrote:

Okay, this has been discussed. Right off the bat governers will be appointed to SCs by the player. Succession from then on functions as it would for national leaders, just on a smaller scale.

so when you appoint them you cant controll you city. then my suggestion is wont work

No, you can still control it. Anything the player says overides the micro-managing systems in place. However, when you leave, it will function on it's own.

Tenebrarum wrote:

bill2505 wrote:

Tenebrarum wrote:

Okay, this has been discussed. Right off the bat governers will be appointed to SCs by the player. Succession from then on functions as it would for national leaders, just on a smaller scale.

so when you appoint them you cant controll you city. then my suggestion is wont work

No, you can still control it. Anything the player says overides the micro-managing systems in place. However, when you leave, it will function on it's own.

then my suggestion is possible. my suggestion (i keep asking you because i thing that you havent understand my suggestion) is a new government feudal monarchy.
thi will work like governors but with one major difference.they cant be controlled by you . they are controled by the vassal and if you appoint one you cant take the city back or he will rebel .they every year or month or day(i dont know how time is going to be calculated) the will give money or military support(they will build units for you and give them to you or follow you in battle

bill2505 wrote:

then my suggestion is possible. my suggestion (i keep asking you because i thing that you havent understand my suggestion) is a new government feudal monarchy.
thi will work like governors but with one major difference.they cant be controlled by you . they are controled by the vassal and if you appoint one you cant take the city back or he will rebel .they every year or month or day(i dont know how time is going to be calculated) the will give money or military support(they will build units for you and give them to you or follow you in battle

Alright, I see what you're saying now.

Listen, in strategy maode you are not playing the leader of your nation. You are playing. There is no way to describe what exactly you are, but you do not function as your nation's ruler. While there is a massive degree of overlap between you and the ruler, the ruler functions just as the governers do on a larger scale. If you want to, ou can manage what they do, if you don't they'll do it for you. We can't limit players like you are suggesting, because they are not a person grabbing for power but something else.

Now, the other things you brought up are taxes and military recruitment. Taxes still haven't been sufficiently explored, and neither has recruitment, but I think we agree that in the NE you are able to list any number of resources can be taxed from your provinces/SCs and how often/how much you wish to tax them. These resources can be anything from feathers to food to slaves and perfumes, money, or even military support, as you mentioned.

Now, as a scholar of the Middle Ages, I would like to point out that the Military Support situation at the time was one of "As Needed" calling. It did not function as an anual tax of a certain number of soldiers, merely a promise that during a time of war, the king would be able to order soldiers recruitment for his army from his vassals. The current system allows this sort of thing in Strat. Mode (To my knowledge). Don't worry about it.

P.S. We haven't discussed setting calenders and tracking time. It should be done.

Tenebrarum wrote:

bill2505 wrote:

then my suggestion is possible. my suggestion (i keep asking you because i thing that you havent understand my suggestion) is a new government feudal monarchy.
thi will work like governors but with one major difference.they cant be controlled by you . they are controled by the vassal and if you appoint one you cant take the city back or he will rebel .they every year or month or day(i dont know how time is going to be calculated) the will give money or military support(they will build units for you and give them to you or follow you in battle

Alright, I see what you're saying now.

Listen, in strategy maode you are not playing the leader of your nation. You are playing. There is no way to describe what exactly you are, but you do not function as your nation's ruler. While there is a massive degree of overlap between you and the ruler, the ruler functions just as the governers do on a larger scale. If you want to, ou can manage what they do, if you don't they'll do it for you. We can't limit players like you are suggesting, because they are not a person grabbing for power but something else.

Now, the other things you brought up are taxes and military recruitment. Taxes still haven't been sufficiently explored, and neither has recruitment, but I think we agree that in the NE you are able to list any number of resources can be taxed from your provinces/SCs and how often/how much you wish to tax them. These resources can be anything from feathers to food to slaves and perfumes, money, or even military support, as you mentioned.

Now, as a scholar of the Middle Ages, I would like to point out that the Military Support situation at the time was one of "As Needed" calling. It did not function as an anual tax of a certain number of soldiers, merely a promise that during a time of war, the king would be able to order soldiers recruitment for his army from his vassals. The current system allows this sort of thing in Strat. Mode (To my knowledge). Don't worry about it.

P.S. We haven't discussed setting calenders and tracking time. It should be done.

ok thanks for the answer

As you said Rex, the current system of Military Specialists and their deploying into actual squads already cover this well I think.

Quote :

P.S. We haven't discussed setting calenders and tracking time. It should be done.

Well, periodical events (such as astronomical events, repeating floods on big rivers and such) should be naturaly included into the calendar. If the space between those time units is still too big, then it will be settled artificialy.

However, I don't know how our players will cope with different time units. Maybe there should be a conversion into Earth time units as well?

Commander Keen wrote:

As you said Rex, the current system of Military Specialists and their deploying into actual squads already cover this well I think.

Quote :

P.S. We haven't discussed setting calenders and tracking time. It should be done.

Well, periodical events (such as astronomical events, repeating floods on big rivers and such) should be naturaly included into the calendar. If the space between those time units is still too big, then it will be settled artificialy.

However, I don't know how our players will cope with different time units. Maybe there should be a conversion into Earth time units as well?

I'm thinking that it should be part of the culture tab in the NE. Customizable. You'll have a certain number of your-world-days in a your-world-year off the bat, but all else you can do.

Also note, leftovers are not a bad thing. The Mayan calender have organized weeks and months but five extra days at the end which were supposed to be extremely unlucky.

Tenebrarum wrote:

Commander Keen wrote:

As you said Rex, the current system of Military Specialists and their deploying into actual squads already cover this well I think.

Quote :

P.S. We haven't discussed setting calenders and tracking time. It should be done.

Well, periodical events (such as astronomical events, repeating floods on big rivers and such) should be naturaly included into the calendar. If the space between those time units is still too big, then it will be settled artificialy.

However, I don't know how our players will cope with different time units. Maybe there should be a conversion into Earth time units as well?

I'm thinking that it should be part of the culture tab in the NE. Customizable. You'll have a certain number of your-world-days in a your-world-year off the bat, but all else you can do.

Also note, leftovers are not a bad thing. The Mayan calender have organized weeks and months but five extra days at the end which were supposed to be extremely unlucky.

5 unlucky days? That's sounds like a bad thing to me.

And months are based on one orbit (Well, originally phases) of the moon, so if your planet has a moon, you should be given your-world-months, too. Weeks are customisable, though, because they are purely down to your nation, not a fixed orbit or rotation. So are seconds, minutes, and hours. Of course, if the players set values for them, it'd probably be either the same as real life, or using decimals, with 100 seconds in a minute, and 100 minutes in an hour, or something along those lines.

And could we include another one? If your moon is not in a gravitational lock to the planet, then a lunar day would be an interesting time measurement we could provide.

The Uteen wrote:

5 unlucky days? That's sounds like a bad thing to me.

And months are based on one orbit (Well, originally phases) of the moon, so if your planet has a moon, you should be given your-world-months, too. Weeks are customisable, though, because they are purely down to your nation, not a fixed orbit or rotation. So are seconds, minutes, and hours. Of course, if the players set values for them, it'd probably be either the same as real life, or using decimals, with 100 seconds in a minute, and 100 minutes in an hour, or something along those lines.

And could we include another one? If your moon is not in a gravitational lock to the planet, then a lunar day would be an interesting time measurement we could provide.

Months are not locked into the phases. They were merely observed and copied, and so are not exact. Many(Most) cultures don't have months that line up with the lunar calendar. The Maya had months of twenty days. The pre-roman italians had months of forty.

As to units smaller than a day: These are more difficult. Most cultures simply say general times, like dusk, dawn, noon, and the like until they invent clocks. However, clocks are invented on Earth specifically because a more complex system had been invented. Not hours as we know them, but Canonical Hours, Vigils, Matins, Lauds, Prime, Terce, None(Pronounced like bone), Vespers, and Complin. These were originally general, like the other mentioned times, but eventually people became afraid that they would be saying the wrong prayers at the wrong times, so a machine was invented to specify when exactly they should do what.

It might be simpler to just have the general times first, and as clocks are invented, allow the player to whittle it down by taking the day and dividing it into X parts, and those into Y parts.

^^

Tenebrarum wrote:

It might be simpler to just have the general times first, and as clocks are invented, allow the player to whittle it down by taking the day and dividing it into X parts, and those into Y parts.

^^

I like this idea. It's simple to impliment and at the same time makes sense.

What Possion said.
Floods could be a good basis for semi-annual things, but usually they correspond to the seasons (snow/ice melts or the monsoons come, river floods) so while they have a lot to do with marking time, they're really just part of the general weather.
Astronomical studies should therefore preceed clocks, then?

Tenebrarum wrote:

Months are not locked into the phases. They were merely observed and copied, and so are not exact. Many(Most) cultures don't have months that line up with the lunar calendar. The Maya had months of twenty days. The pre-roman italians had months of forty.

Well those aren't lunar months... But a different month system could be used. But the lunar month's length should be shown, and so can be used in the calendar if the player wants, along with days and years.

No comment on lunar days, either it goes without saying it should be in there (which I doubt), or it is so bad you wont even comment on it (which I doubt). Or you missed it (which I expect is correct).
Lunar days would be a cool measurement to use, and realistic. Months were based on observation, and lunar days can also be (although more likely after the telescope). A lunar day could be used in the place of a week measurement.

Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote:

What Possion said.
Floods could be a good basis for semi-annual things, but usually they correspond to the seasons (snow/ice melts or the monsoons come, river floods) so while they have a lot to do with marking time, they're really just part of the general weather.
Astronomical studies should therefore preceed clocks, then?

Yes. I believe they already do.

The Uteen wrote:

Well those aren't lunar months... But a different month system could be used. But the lunar month's length should be shown, and so can be used in the calendar if the player wants, along with days and years.

No comment on lunar days, either it goes without saying it should be in there (which I doubt), or it is so bad you wont even comment on it (which I doubt). Or you missed it (which I expect is correct).
Lunar days would be a cool measurement to use, and realistic. Months were based on observation, and lunar days can also be (although more likely after the telescope). A lunar day could be used in the place of a week measurement.

You make a good point, but unfortunately it seems very unlikely to occur, as by the time you have sufficient telescopic ability you will likely have needed a calendar long enough ago that it will be cemented in your culture.

Calendars are, in fact, pretty early.

I read somewhere that seconds are based off of the average human resting pulse - who knows if that's true, but I wanted to point out that small biological factors could be used, as well as greater astronomical factors, to mark time.

Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote:

I read somewhere that seconds are based off of the average human resting pulse - who knows if that's true, but I wanted to point out that small biological factors could be used, as well as greater astronomical factors, to mark time.

I find that slightly difficult to believe, as I know for a fact that beats in music are based off the human pulse, but whatever.

I am quite certain that I read it on the internet, so the validity there is pretty questionable, I agree.

The second intervals we use now are actually Babylonian seconds. As such, it is computed on base 60: 60 seconds to a minute, 60 minutes to an hour. The average resting heartbeat is actually around 60 beats per minute, which is also why a lot of songs are recorded at either 60 or 120 bmp, it somehow makes the song fit better with people (just like a faster paced song gets you tense and energetic). Feel the rhythm in your heart, because that's what the Babylonians did.

Thank you Alaska - my history memory had temporarily failed me.

Other fairly regular ways to measure small amounts of time are water clocks and hourglasses. Liquid and sand would be available on most planets, I think. Sundials are also practical, even with crazy orbits around - these might even be in use before time and calendars standardize.
Also, remember that calendars can change: The romans were quite fond of adding months at the insistance of emperors, and we've just had our astrology signs switched - after hundreds of years, someone decided that thirteen of them was more accurate after all.