Neural Networks

Just happen to wanting to throw this in here; I think it applies mostly to the cell stage, but the other stages could maybe benefit from it aswell.



You can download it here

All that is needed is applying this to create graphical stuff such as new limbs, better breathing ability etc. This could also be used to alter a creatures behavior etc. The site also contains c++ source code for those interested in having a look.

The process is too complex, and the results too simple; it's a great simualtion, but it's not good for a game.

What i thought about, to make it actually worth doing is that each one of these fishes you see, represent one specie. It would be easy on the cpu, and then just add a random to produce mutations wich creates smaller populations of species. That way we could go up to about a thousand species to calculate each evolutionary process before a single core would kneel. Then most computers today have atleast dual core and in one year i imagine everyone has quad core.

But if you think it isn`t worth doing then we won`t right?

AIs-null wrote:

What i thought about, to make it actually worth doing is that each one of these fishes you see, represent one specie. It would be easy on the cpu, and then just add a random to produce mutations wich creates smaller populations of species. That way we could go up to about a thousand species to calculate each evolutionary process before a single core would kneel. Then most computers today have atleast dual core and in one year i imagine everyone has quad core.

But if you think it isn`t worth doing then we won`t right?

I'm trusting your estimation there, but the problem is we're running a lot more than just autoevo, and we want to cut down on processor strain as much as possible. We want a pretty lean game.

~sciocont wrote:

AIs-null wrote:

What i thought about, to make it actually worth doing is that each one of these fishes you see, represent one specie. It would be easy on the cpu, and then just add a random to produce mutations wich creates smaller populations of species. That way we could go up to about a thousand species to calculate each evolutionary process before a single core would kneel. Then most computers today have atleast dual core and in one year i imagine everyone has quad core.

But if you think it isn`t worth doing then we won`t right?

I'm trusting your estimation there, but the problem is we're running a lot more than just autoevo, and we want to cut down on processor strain as much as possible. We want a pretty lean game.

Yes a lot more than just auto evo, but then again the other stuff doesn`t require as much as auto evo does. However to keep it simple maybe we can take this worry when it comes.

Auto evo is purely data collecting within a simulation, and actual population counting/mutating in between simulations.

Whatever happens will influence the CPU. Period.

It's horribly interesting, but the actual auto-evo programming has to necessarily gloss over that stuff about neurons, pretty much as soon as we upgrade to upwards of a handfull of cells.
However, this does not look complicated. There are some similarities between this and the plan for cell mode, as well as the transition out of cell mode, so I think it was worth sharing.

It's an interesting idea but I don't know if it fits in well to the current concept and as Scio pointed out, it looks too simple. I do not think that gameplay like that for the whole cell stage will keep players hooked.

Also

Quote :

i imagine everyone has quad core.

Not true. I have a duo core.

2creator wrote:

Also

Quote :

i imagine everyone has quad core.

Not true. I have a duo core.

Read everything, in a year i ment. I have a desktop with 6 core and a laptop with 2 core.

2creator wrote:

It's an interesting idea but I don't know if it fits in well to the current concept and as Scio pointed out, it looks too simple. I do not think that gameplay like that for the whole cell stage will keep players hooked.

This is not player controlled, with a few random commands this will create a unique gameplay experience everytime you start a new game.

So you're proposing this as a possible component of the AI portion of cell/handfull of cells stage?

I propose that you start out with..only yourself and/or two-three other cells start with the game or something.

At the beggining they all have very similar, but different neural networks.

imagine one epoch of cell stage, of course, epochs are hidden to the player and you can think of it as "generations".

Epoch one:

[Insert numerous events here]

Results epoch one:

Specie 6 generated because random mutation [insert number here] occured.
Specie 1 very succesfull
Specie 2 failed because of [insert event here]
specie 3 stays normal
specie 4 stays normal
specie 5 strongly weakened because of [insert random mutated trait here]

Epoch two:

[numerous events occur]

Results epoch two:

specie 1 evolved [insert random trait here]
specie 3 evolved [insert random trait here]
specie 4 evolved [reduced speed, better defence]
specie 5 failed because of [inset event here]
specie 6 failed because of [specie population not enough to compete]
specie 7 emerged from specie 1 because of [specie 1 very succesfull, different versions of this cell therefore emerged with succesfull trait]

epoch three:

[events occur]

Results epoch three:

specie 1 weakened [population size lowered]


etc. etc. etc.


Imagine some mutations being changes to ones neural network making it have different behaviors. Let me show what will happen when we have 100~ species

epoch 209:

Big amount of events occur

Results epoch 209:

[computer notice a lot of species, give lower speciation ratio command = less chance of speciation]
[Computer notice above 1000 events, give lower event ratio command = less chance of mutations occur]

so how many mutations and species our engine can handle depends on how complex the neural networks`ll be, how good engine is programmed.
Depending on that, you can have a gazillion species, as long as you have the processing power of just that, and how many calculations your CPU will do. This can (preferably for performance issues) be done while loading in new world after you have accesed and entered the editor of the stage. I am pretty sure this will demand massive processing powers though, so this idea might be dead.

Cells do not have neurons. This is because Neurons are cells. Cells react only to a limited range of stimuli, which could be simulated similar to what you have down, and there's probably a critical mass needed to create cells whose function is as a neural net. (Critical number of cells, people, not of matter.)

Cells differ in organelles, not neural arrangement, but other than that, mostly ok.

Yeah okay but you got the concept? Im a not a biology proffessor

Yup.

~sciocont wrote:

The process is too complex, and the results too simple; it's a great simualtion, but it's not good for a game.

I disagree.

After watching the other videos he's made (he makes them change color and hunt each other), this is fetching amazing. The evolutions the game generate come up with strange solutions, and behave really cool. Their brains get ultra-complex, and while it might not look like it at first, they solve situations very well.

My proposal to this is to allow the player to add and remove parts. The neural network would then adapt, allowing for a really cool simulation.

I think civ stage is more complicated and has results simpler than this. We want fluid dynamics, org mode, and an entire planet simulated in real time, but this is too complex? Untrue.

Yes the program is quite much better than what it is in the video shown. You can download it in the upper post to see for yourselves, and just a hint + speeds up time so just press and hold + to watch it go ultra fast. Please have a look at the code roadkillguy, and see if it would benefit us. Im not very fluent in C++ if you can use that word. I use python, a way simpler programming language.

AIs-null wrote:

... how good engine is programmed.

Do not let Bashi hear you.

Other than that, I likes

What? I think bashinerox is very capable of making a good engine.

AIs-null wrote:

What? I think bashinerox is very capable of making a good engine.

Thou escapeth the gestapo this one time. (P.S. XD)

It's a simple system, and if we tweak it a bit, we'd get a funny system (good system, not just funny);
What bugs me about your downloadable is that one species always pwns the others. At the start they move equally and stuff, but later on a certain species evolves über metabolism and hyperwarp! and all others just turn into retards.

Actually every specie grow as intelligent as it can get before they vanquish under the supremacy of others. However this can easilly be changed and if you include all the other variables this game will have. Yah i escape, never the intention though :ØP

AIs-null wrote:

Actually every specie grow as intelligent as it can get before they vanquish under the supremacy of others. However this can easilly be changed and if you include all the other variables this game will have. Yah i escape, never the intention though :ØP

The simulation produced a species that lasted exactly 4732 generation, pure herbivores, before they were outbred by retarded black beings that rotated around a point until they died or reproduced.

Mine was two species, a red herbivore and a blue herbivore with stable populations. That was one round, thanks to random it gets more interesting.