can the snake constrict the mouse or just no...

ok we all know that pythons and anacondas kill there prey with pressure. will we have this in the game? i don't know, this thread i started is to talk about methods of killing different types of animals. like will your creature use brute force and smash the horse like dog with a club? or will your creature set traps like spiders and wait for their prey to be caught? i mad some other threads about venom and what not but this should be the official killing methods thread where we can talk about how the animal can kill the other animal and maybe set up new killing styles.

Hmm, interesting, it would require loads of diffrent weapons to chose from to make each one work.
I also want to ask what the combat system will be?

mmmmm.... most of these would need specific adaptations, such as claws, constrictive musclature, fangs, etc. Others would need behavior patterns - now, we could use a system of tagged attributes, but I think that might make it even more complicated.
Claws and poison glands can be covered in CE. Behavioral adaptations are going to be much trickier.

This is a really tricky question. We need to get Scio to weigh in, i think. All i know is that i'm thankful i'm head of Strategy Mode and not Org right now. This question is a great one, and one that seems unbelievably tricky.

thank you for your feed back i was watching the animal planet when i thought of this, you are really right this will be extremely tricky but if done right or to the best of are ability's we can probably get a good real way to implement this for the game but i don't know

I'll speak to scio, see if we can hatch something over Easter. Right now he's just busy with the belgiumload of organizing I did for him this week - I made a cheat-sheet for biome determination, and figured out approximately how many slots we need to fill and what conditions we need to fill them. When I'm done, each set of conditions should code for three seperate biomes (some notable exceptions in the open ocean zones) and then it will be time-determined which secession stage said biome is in.

I think we're going to need a behavior programming interface at some point.

Primary methods of catching prey:

~ Group Hunting
Animals in social groups will be able to take down larger prey whilst confusing it. Common sense really.
Requires: Social/Pack behavior

~ Speed
Faster animal = More likely to catch prey. Again, common sense.
Requires: Fast means of locomotion.

~ Ambush/Concealment
Camouflaged organisms can 'ambush' unsuspecting prey by remaining hidden until it is close enough to attack. Means of camouflage can branch from the ability to dynamically change patterns on the skin to simply being the same color as the common hunting ground (IE green for chlorophylic plants)
Requires: Some means of camouflage.

~ Traps
Organisms can remain still and quiet until prey triggers their trap. Traps can range from sticky surfaces (webs, pitcher plants), to trapdoors, to sensory pads (We should probably make a big brainstorm of traps).
Requires: Some means of trap making, ie silk, adhesive secretion, TBD.

~ Lures
Organisms with special 'lure' parts can mimic the prey of their own prey, or produce a stimulant which the prey will move towards (IE light for moths). When the prey is close enough, the organism will attack.
Requires: A lure part. These could range from prey-like lures to bioluminescent or attractive chemical secreting parts.

Secondary Methods of killing prey.

~Offensive Weapons
Things like teeth, jaws, beaks, horns, muscular force (like constriction), spines, claws, etc which basically inflict physical damage, and when targeted in correct areas, can kill (IE a strong bite to the neck).
Requires: Some kind of Physical weapon.

~Venom
Venoms will subdue the prey without requiring a large force and energy like that required by offensive weapons. Some venoms will paralyze, others will kill, in small organisms like spiders, some will liquefy the insides of the prey for easy digestion.
Requires: Toxin producing glands, with some means of administration IE fangs.

~What is this I cant think of any more. Help!

So thats a basic throw up of the ones I can think of. I guess any organism could have a combination from list one and two.

IE
~ A group hunter with venom - Like an army ant
~ A speedy animal with teeth - Like a cheetah
~ An ambusher with venom - Like a tree snake, crab spider...
~ A trapper with venom - Like Spiders
~ A lurer with teeth - Like an Angler fish.

There will be a lot of possible combinations, along with body shape, structure etc and of course all organisms also have a way of defending themselves which are relevant to how their predator catches and kills them.

Also I suggest OP change the topic name to "Methods of Predation" To avoid confusion

Kudos, pezz.
A quick note about list number two - we shouldn't have a limit on how much physical attributes a creature has, because most of our predators have teeth, claws, and some have teeth, claws and poison (some lizards, for example) while others have great speed, teeth, and poison... basically, if it goes in the OE, we shouldn't limit how many.
We're also eventually going to need to list some avoidance strats for prey.

what about evolution wars? if you don't get what i mean it is when two creatures evolve to combat the other, like there is this species of rat that has high resistance to this poison this snake has, and the snakes in this area ( forgot where) have stronger levels of toxic ness of there venom i was watch discovery channel where i herd this it would be a nice realistic feel to the game just throwing it out there

*Vague handwaves in the direction of programming*
Yeah. The way I see it is this: if two species have a primary prey/primary predator relationship in an ecosystem, then you will get escalating evolution wars with minimal extra programming, because auto-evo has already killed the useful traits are passed on dead with a rusty spork. Been covered.
I'm more worried about the behavioral aspect now - such as the "avoids predators by coming to the watering hole at a different part of the day" or the "splits into groups to sneak past," kind of things.

Co-evolution methinks.

Prey avoidance tactics can actually be more or less the same as prey cathching tactics with a few extras here and there.

Methods of avoiding/defending against predators:

~ Group Defense
Animals in groups will be able to scare prey off - strength in numbers.
Ranges from OX circles to fish shoals.
Requires: Social/Swarm/Group behaviour

~ Speed
Faster animal = More likely to escape.
Requires: Fast means of locomotion.

~ Deception
Camouflaged organisms can easily hide from predators. Means of camouflage can branch from the ability to dynamically change patterns on the skin to simply being the same color as the common ground (IE green for chlorophylic plants)
Camouflage can be:

Disruptive: Stripes like that on a zebra make it harder to pick out individuals from a background and/or a group.

Cryptic: The organism blends in with the background. (Like stick insects, chameleons etc)

Mimicry: The organism 'mimics' the patterning/body shape of a poisonous or dangerous organism. Itself is not dangerous but it will ward of potential predators.

Requires: Some means of camouflage above

~ Chemical
The organism secretes a chemical which fends off predators. Things like ink, skunk spray, and spitting venom.
Requires: Some means of chemical secretion (is secretion the right word?)


~ Startle display
The prey could make itself appear much larger that reality so it scares off predators. This can range from things like the Frilled lizard to eye-spots on Moth wings.
This one can vary too. If the predator has infrared vision (sees heat, like a snake) then moving very quickly or flailing a part like a tail can be classed as a startle display. (Theres a squirrel which can do that to scare rattle snakes, its tail appears as a big red glow)
Requires: Difficult. Some means of startling the predator (Fear overlay - it was discussed). Algorithm for fear? Maybe not...

~Offensive Weapons
Things like teeth, jaws, beaks, horns, muscular force (like constriction), spines, claws, etc which basically inflict physical damage, warding of predators.
Requires: Some kind of Physical weapon.

~Poison
A poisonous animal is usually bright colored here on earth (due to Mullerian mimicry
methinks, basically a group of poisonous organisms were brightly colored, so many organisms learned to avoid brightly colored animals, and a more poisonous animals evolved, they found it beneficial being bright). Organisms that are poisonous will cause illness or death to anything that tries to eat it. Not so helpful in the short term as the organism is still eaten but it will cause predators to avoid that kind of food, and if the animal evolves some kind of Mullerian mimicry of other poisonous organisms, they will be avoided by many more predators.
Requires: Toxin secretion over the skin or inside the body

~Venom
A venomous organism is able to give a painful bite/sting/other to a predator. Helpful in swarms. For example, would you eat bee?
Requires: Venom glands and administration.

Co-evolution is more along the lines of flowers and bees. But predator/prey corresponding behaviors look good so far, Pez.

Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote:

Co-evolution is more along the lines of flowers and bees. But predator/prey corresponding behaviors look good so far, Pez.

Co-evolution is one species adaptation in response to that of another species.
So basically if the adaptation is because of another species rather than an abiotic factor then it is Co-evolution.

See, I always assume co = cooperative, but I haven't really studied that since freshman bio, so I might be wrong. Last time it came up in my major classes was "You know, like when certain bugs are needed to pollinate certain flowers or some prey gets faster and the predator gets faster." Everyone knew what was being talked about, I guess.

I'll be putting up a combat/special controls current concept sometime soon.

Hey pezz, I just wanna add one more defence mechanism. Many organisms living in the deep ocean have transluscent bodies, and thus some prey, the hatchetfish for example, have developed bio-lumenescence. (sp?) When the predator eats them, the lights keep going for a while, meaning said predator becomes obvious as the lights shine through their body and alert others of danger.

* luminescence.

That is hilarious. I'm picturing a fish with a glow-in-the-dark gi tract...

I'd also like to add in the "I'm poisonous, stay the belgium away from me" colorations of certain poisonous animals and their close, non-toxic relatives. Examples include the coral and king snake (Red on yellow kills a fellow, red on black - you're okay, jack... now if only I could remember which coloration went with which snake...) and the monarch and viceroy butterflies. Also, poisonous tree frogs are brightly colored for a reason.

Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote:

* luminescence.

That is hilarious. I'm picturing a fish with a glow-in-the-dark gi tract...

I'd also like to add in the "I'm poisonous, stay the belgium away from me" colorations of certain poisonous animals and their close, non-toxic relatives. Examples include the coral and king snake (Red on yellow kills a fellow, red on black - you're okay, jack... now if only I could remember which coloration went with which snake...) and the monarch and viceroy butterflies. Also, poisonous tree frogs are brightly colored for a reason.

I think I covered mimicry
Theres Baestian an Mullerian mimicry, both of which you covered.

Baestian = I'm not poisonous or dangerous but that bee is so I'm going to be yellow and black and thus I am safe LOLOLOL (King/Coral snakes, Fake bees etc)

Mullerian = I am poisonous and so is that other guy, we should both look the same so we don't get eaten (Monarch and Viceroy Butterflies)