Thrive Game Development
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Thrive Game Development

Development of the evolution game Thrive.
 
HomeHome  PortalPortal  Latest imagesLatest images  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Welcome new and returning members!
If you're new, read around a bit before you post: the odds are we've already covered your suggestion.
If you want to join the development team, sign up and tell us why.
ADMIN is pleased to note that this marquee has finally been updated.
ADMIN reminds you that the Devblog is REQUIRED reading.
Currently: The Microbe Stage GUI is under heavy development
Log in
Username:
Password:
Log in automatically: 
:: I forgot my password
Quick Links
Website
/r/thrive
GitHub
FAQs
Wiki
New Posts
Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
Statistics
We have 1675 registered users
The newest registered user is dejo123

Our users have posted a total of 30851 messages in 1411 subjects
Who is online?
In total there are 10 users online :: 0 Registered, 0 Hidden and 10 Guests :: 1 Bot

None

Most users ever online was 443 on Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:41 pm
Latest topics
» THIS FORUM IS NOW OBSOLETE
Sentience as RPG Emptyby NickTheNick Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:26 pm

» To all the people who come here looking for thrive.
Sentience as RPG Emptyby NickTheNick Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:22 pm

» Build Error Code::Blocks / CMake
Sentience as RPG Emptyby crovea Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:28 pm

» Hello! I can translate in japanese
Sentience as RPG Emptyby tjwhale Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:23 pm

» On Leave (Offline thread)
Sentience as RPG Emptyby NickTheNick Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:20 am

» Devblog #14: A Brave New Forum
Sentience as RPG Emptyby NickTheNick Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:49 am

» Application for Programmer
Sentience as RPG Emptyby crovea Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:14 am

» Re-Reapplication
Sentience as RPG Emptyby The Creator Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:57 pm

» Application (programming)
Sentience as RPG Emptyby crovea Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:00 am

» Achieving Sapience
Sentience as RPG Emptyby MitochondriaBox Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:03 pm

» Microbe Stage GDD
Sentience as RPG Emptyby tjwhale Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:44 pm

» Application for Programmer/ Theorist
Sentience as RPG Emptyby tjwhale Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:56 am

» Application for a 3D Modeler.
Sentience as RPG Emptyby Kaiju4u Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:16 am

» Presentation
Sentience as RPG Emptyby Othithu Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:38 am

» Application of Sorts
Sentience as RPG Emptyby crovea Sun May 31, 2015 5:06 pm

» want to contribute
Sentience as RPG Emptyby Renzope Sun May 31, 2015 12:58 pm

» Music List Thread (Post New Themes Here)
Sentience as RPG Emptyby Oliveriver Thu May 28, 2015 1:06 pm

» Application: English-Spanish translator
Sentience as RPG Emptyby Renzope Tue May 26, 2015 1:53 pm

» Want to be promoter or project manager
Sentience as RPG Emptyby TheBudderBros Sun May 24, 2015 9:00 pm

» A new round of Forum Revamps!
Sentience as RPG Emptyby Oliveriver Wed May 20, 2015 11:32 am


 

 Sentience as RPG

Go down 
+4
Mysterious_Calligrapher
The Uteen
~sciocont
Tenebrarum
8 posters
AuthorMessage
Tenebrarum
Society Team Lead
Tenebrarum


Posts : 1179
Reputation : 32
Join date : 2010-10-01
Age : 31
Location : ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

Sentience as RPG Empty
PostSubject: Sentience as RPG   Sentience as RPG EmptyFri Nov 04, 2011 3:36 pm

Okay, seeing as we're skipping Microbial for the moment and heading straight to the main engine, I'm gonna start working double time on all stages taking place within said main engine. Minus post-ascension. That can definitely wait.

Anyways, I've been thinking about the transition from Aware to Sentience, and my brain hatched an idea. Now we know that player-evo is out the window indefinitely, and standard auto-evo would be just cruel to put on the player, it's clear that progression will be achieved through limited direct edits to the organism.

Now, as a way to help establish Racial Psychology and provide the player more in-game freedom, I think we might be able to set up intelligence as a tech tree, certain branches unlocking and locking as intelligence is earned.

For those unaware, (no pun intended) the current intelligence model is as follows:

Spoiler:

Okay, this model follows a clear "points" system, giving the player a simple progress bar the fill with certain actions. Rather than that, we could kill not two but three birds with one stone, and implement the "tech" tree, in which intelligence points (IPs?) would unlock certain behaviors and psychologies. With this model, we could flesh out AI for all species, not just the player's, provide an interesting and strategic method of progression towards sentience, and a way to include multiple psychologies for sentient races.

Thoughts?
Back to top Go down
~sciocont
Overall Team Lead
~sciocont


Posts : 3406
Reputation : 138
Join date : 2010-07-06

Sentience as RPG Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sentience as RPG   Sentience as RPG EmptyFri Nov 04, 2011 4:27 pm

I like this idea, and that someone
Quote :
it's clear that progression will be achieved through limited direct edits to the organism.
agrees with me here. It's really the only way to make a playable game.
Back to top Go down
The Uteen
Sandbox Team Lead
The Uteen


Posts : 1476
Reputation : 70
Join date : 2010-07-06
Age : 28
Location : England, Virgo Supercluster

Sentience as RPG Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sentience as RPG   Sentience as RPG EmptyFri Nov 04, 2011 5:28 pm

I suppose limited direct edits could possibly be a consideration... Maybe.

Very interesting points system, I take it the way it works won't actually be visible to the player, though, they have to use their imagination to think of creative ideas. I like the idea of people thinking up inventive to downright absurd ways to do things and getting points for it... Good system. Confusing prey with silly walks can only be good. But how exactly does this work for the AI? Do they progressively begin to do the things that get the most points? Doing more complicated things and using more planning before?
Back to top Go down
Tenebrarum
Society Team Lead
Tenebrarum


Posts : 1179
Reputation : 32
Join date : 2010-10-01
Age : 31
Location : ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

Sentience as RPG Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sentience as RPG   Sentience as RPG EmptyFri Nov 04, 2011 6:24 pm

The Uteen wrote:
I suppose limited direct edits could possibly be a consideration... Maybe.

Very interesting points system, I take it the way it works won't actually be visible to the player, though, they have to use their imagination to think of creative ideas. I like the idea of people thinking up inventive to downright absurd ways to do things and getting points for it... Good system. Confusing prey with silly walks can only be good. But how exactly does this work for the AI? Do they progressively begin to do the things that get the most points? Doing more complicated things and using more planning before?
The AI will just have the possibility of developing mental strategies rather than physical ones to deal with problems, just like any other mutation.

The player would be told what actions give intelligence points, but they'd of course have the control over where said points were allocated.

And what's wrong with direct edits?
Back to top Go down
Mysterious_Calligrapher
Biome Team Lead
Mysterious_Calligrapher


Posts : 1034
Reputation : 26
Join date : 2010-11-26
Age : 32
Location : Earth, the solar system, the milky way...

Sentience as RPG Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sentience as RPG   Sentience as RPG EmptyFri Nov 04, 2011 6:42 pm

This seems cool. My only consideration would be that we need to award intelligence points for more than just killing stuff if we're not going to skew this unfairly against omnivores and herbivores.

Points for herd strategic behaviors, such as scouting (meerkats, geese, etc. on guard for predators) and for seeking out new ranges would be nice.

Overall though, nice! It's hidden from the player, but intuitive enough that they can drive themselves towards intelligence fairly easily. And it doesn't seem as if it will be holy Belgium for Roadkill's ever expanding army of millions to program.
Back to top Go down
Tenebrarum
Society Team Lead
Tenebrarum


Posts : 1179
Reputation : 32
Join date : 2010-10-01
Age : 31
Location : ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

Sentience as RPG Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sentience as RPG   Sentience as RPG EmptyFri Nov 04, 2011 6:52 pm

Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote:
This seems cool. My only consideration would be that we need to award intelligence points for more than just killing stuff if we're not going to skew this unfairly against omnivores and herbivores.

Points for herd strategic behaviors, such as scouting (meerkats, geese, etc. on guard for predators) and for seeking out new ranges would be nice.

Overall though, nice! It's hidden from the player, but intuitive enough that they can drive themselves towards intelligence fairly easily. And it doesn't seem as if it will be holy Belgium for Roadkill's ever expanding army of millions to program.
We are going to skew this unfairly against omnivores and herbivores. Herbivores are thick as rocks.
Back to top Go down
Mysterious_Calligrapher
Biome Team Lead
Mysterious_Calligrapher


Posts : 1034
Reputation : 26
Join date : 2010-11-26
Age : 32
Location : Earth, the solar system, the milky way...

Sentience as RPG Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sentience as RPG   Sentience as RPG EmptyFri Nov 04, 2011 6:58 pm

But we're omnivores, Rex. I don't want it to be hard-lined impossible for omnivores to be sentient. And there's a possibility that out there, somewhere, it is advantageous for a species of herbivore not to be as thick as a rock.

I mean, compare the relative intelligence of Horses and sheep. Horses obviously got at least one intelligence point somewhere down the line. Sheep didn't. Horses might not have made it to aware, and probably never will, but there ought to be some variety in the cognitive ability, at least so that we can have smart prey and stupid prey coming out of auto-evo for your carnivore.

And logically, wouldn't killing smart prey give more intelligence points? A wolf that's picking off a bunch of sheep is not using as much brain as one that's trying to separate a herd of deer.
Back to top Go down
Tenebrarum
Society Team Lead
Tenebrarum


Posts : 1179
Reputation : 32
Join date : 2010-10-01
Age : 31
Location : ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

Sentience as RPG Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sentience as RPG   Sentience as RPG EmptyFri Nov 04, 2011 7:06 pm

Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote:
But we're omnivores, Rex. I don't want it to be hard-lined impossible for omnivores to be sentient. And there's a possibility that out there, somewhere, it is advantageous for a species of herbivore not to be as thick as a rock.

I mean, compare the relative intelligence of Horses and sheep. Horses obviously got at least one intelligence point somewhere down the line. Sheep didn't. Horses might not have made it to aware, and probably never will, but there ought to be some variety in the cognitive ability, at least so that we can have smart prey and stupid prey coming out of auto-evo for your carnivore.

And logically, wouldn't killing smart prey give more intelligence points? A wolf that's picking off a bunch of sheep is not using as much brain as one that's trying to separate a herd of deer.
Omnivores still kill things. We got this far because when we climbed down from the trees we started to hunt.

In regards to straight herbivores, there are other methods of earning intelligence, such as inspecies interaction or manipulation of objects. However, a straight herbivore cannot develop sentience. This was determined a long time ago.
Back to top Go down
Mysterious_Calligrapher
Biome Team Lead
Mysterious_Calligrapher


Posts : 1034
Reputation : 26
Join date : 2010-11-26
Age : 32
Location : Earth, the solar system, the milky way...

Sentience as RPG Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sentience as RPG   Sentience as RPG EmptyFri Nov 04, 2011 7:12 pm

Tenebrarum wrote:
Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote:
But we're omnivores, Rex. I don't want it to be hard-lined impossible for omnivores to be sentient. And there's a possibility that out there, somewhere, it is advantageous for a species of herbivore not to be as thick as a rock.

I mean, compare the relative intelligence of Horses and sheep. Horses obviously got at least one intelligence point somewhere down the line. Sheep didn't. Horses might not have made it to aware, and probably never will, but there ought to be some variety in the cognitive ability, at least so that we can have smart prey and stupid prey coming out of auto-evo for your carnivore.

And logically, wouldn't killing smart prey give more intelligence points? A wolf that's picking off a bunch of sheep is not using as much brain as one that's trying to separate a herd of deer.
Omnivores still kill things. We got this far because when we climbed down from the trees we started to hunt.

In regards to straight herbivores, there are other methods of earning intelligence, such as inspecies interaction or manipulation of objects. However, a straight herbivore cannot develop sentience. This was determined a long time ago.

We actually started to scavenge first, but yeah. And not all omnivores actually do very much hunting at all. I mean, pigs are technically omnivores in the most literal sense of the term (As they will eat anything.)

If we're using this to determine behavior then there shouldn't be just one way to earn intelligence. However, as there will be more than one way to earn intelligence, which was my original concern, this system should work. If it is possible for a herbivore to earn some intelligence, then we're good.


Last edited by Mysterious_Calligrapher on Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
Dr_Chillgood
Newcomer
Dr_Chillgood


Posts : 56
Reputation : 6
Join date : 2011-10-26

Sentience as RPG Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sentience as RPG   Sentience as RPG EmptyFri Nov 04, 2011 7:13 pm

hrm, this reminds me about what I was thinking about some days ago. I developed a civilization evolution system with 4 aspects, Technology, societal needs, philosophy, and science, each aspect of a society influences the others, and the others influence it.
(I haven't verified via the wiki/forum to see if the concept won't conflict with approved ideas and it isn't quite fleshed out yet but wanted to bring it up)
The creatures mentality that they had in creature stage would influence the philosophy aspect of their society in my mind, so your idea seems to work out beautifully for this system. IDK about a "tree" though, unless it wasn't very linear so it would support diversity then sure.
Back to top Go down
ido66667
Regular
ido66667


Posts : 366
Reputation : 5
Join date : 2011-05-14
Age : 110
Location : Space - Time

Sentience as RPG Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sentience as RPG   Sentience as RPG EmptyFri Nov 04, 2011 7:59 pm

Dr_Chillgood wrote:
hrm, this reminds me about what I was thinking about some days ago. I developed a civilization evolution system with 4 aspects, Technology, societal needs, philosophy, and science, each aspect of a society influences the others, and the others influence it.
(I haven't verified via the wiki/forum to see if the concept won't conflict with approved ideas and it isn't quite fleshed out yet but wanted to bring it up)
The creatures mentality that they had in creature stage would influence the philosophy aspect of their society in my mind, so your idea seems to work out beautifully for this system. IDK about a "tree" though, unless it wasn't very linear so it would support diversity then sure.

you Forgot Ideology.
Back to top Go down
US_of_Alaska
Overall Team Co-Lead
US_of_Alaska


Posts : 1335
Reputation : 29
Join date : 2010-07-07
Age : 31
Location : Australia

Sentience as RPG Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sentience as RPG   Sentience as RPG EmptyFri Nov 04, 2011 9:04 pm

Ilike. We should start brainstorming actual events that would give intelligence and then work out how the best way to maths it would work (yes maths is a verb now).

So to start with we have:

Hunting
Simple
Ambush
Pack

Exploration
Unexplored Area
New Material
New Organism

Experimentation
??? (suggestions welcome)

Most of the exploration ones will be easy enough to maths, but the hunting ones may be a bit harder to define.
Back to top Go down
roadkillguy
Experienced
roadkillguy


Posts : 528
Reputation : 17
Join date : 2010-08-25
Age : 31
Location : Rhode Island

Sentience as RPG Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sentience as RPG   Sentience as RPG EmptyFri Nov 04, 2011 10:20 pm


For experimentation --Maybe like screwing around and dissecting the deceased? Maybe not. On second thought I really don't feel like programming physical organs inside of creatures.
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content





Sentience as RPG Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sentience as RPG   Sentience as RPG Empty

Back to top Go down
 
Sentience as RPG
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Thrive Game Development :: Development :: Design :: Gameplay Stages :: Aware-
Jump to: