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 Hey! New here...

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Zetal
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PostSubject: Hey! New here...   Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:11 am

...but super excited! Checked the FAQ; didn't quite see anything. How long has this project been under way?


Sorry, I've been having random spurts of happyface since I discovered this through, of all things imaginable, the comments section on YouTube. (Who would have thought? I mean...seriously.) Was watching an old, early version of Spore and wondering why they managed to mess it up, and then was relayed here, and... yea.
That about sums it up.

I have minor (about 40 cumulative hours) experience in Blender, and minor (about 60 cumulative hours) experience in 3dsMax. I'm still not very good at either, even after all that time. =c

Still, if anyone needs anything simple, like a lowres fish for the background, or environment, or whatever, and can't be bothered I'd be more than happy to help this project reach it's completion.

(As well, although this probably isn't nearly as useful, because...internet... I'm in majoring in college in Biological Studies and intend to go onto a graduate major in Genetics... so if you need some factual help with that kind of stuff, or just idea generation, I can combine that knowledge with the game development experience I have so far. You won't catch me suggesting that you recreate life from the microscopic level- it's important to keep in mind coding limitations and such, so I can do that.)

Anyway, enough ranting. I'm here.
Hey. How are you?
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GamerXA
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PostSubject: Re: Hey! New here...   Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:33 am

Welcome to Thrive! I hope that you'll feel welcome here.

I don't foresee any particularly large usage of premade 3d models, except possibly for trailers. But having another consultant for biology/Genetics is always welcome. After all, it's better to get information from a source more reliable than the internet.

The History of Thrive is a long story, and I should probably leave it's explanation to someone with a better memory.
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PostSubject: Re: Hey! New here...   Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:23 pm

Welcome to the project! I'm the big cheese here, along with US of Alaska, who should show up on this thread shortly.
The Idea for the project has been around a while- I'll try to look up the original sporum post, but it's been three years maybe? It started as a hoax- a guy on the spore forums was angry that spore was not realistic, and said that a rival game, that was realistic, was being made. Everyone got excited, then angry when it was revealed as a hoax. so the guy who originally made the hoax said he would make the game. So we had or old forums (the project was then called "Evolutions!") which I first joined. After I made the OE concept, I was promoted to mod. Then, since those forums were full of spam and the guy leading the project never did anything about it, the majority of team members left, changed the name to Thrive, and created a new forum. The guy running that forum disappeared (although we still see him around here sometimes, no hard feelings) and the forum became inaccessible, so I made this new forum, assumed control of the project in a bloodless coup, and we've been here ever since. We've only gone as "Thrive" for a year or so now.

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PostSubject: Re: Hey! New here...   Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:11 pm

Welcome! The more knowledge you have, the better, really. The internet is great, but if there's something seemingly irrelevant that might be the 'missing piece of the puzzle', the internet isn't going to give a friendly nudge and point it out, is it?

Wasn't it around early 2009? That'd make it 2½ years... Anyone fancy compiling a History Of Thrive? We've got a history that would probably make an interesting short-story.
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PostSubject: Re: Hey! New here...   Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:21 pm

Wow! Thanks so much for the replies, guys! I noticed you were all active recently, which was super reassuring (as sometimes I've googled things that I've really like [not nearly as much as this] and found that it was months death, but this is still active!) and... yea! Awesome!
Okay. =) Ty for the backstory, guys. I'll keep that in mind. ^^
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PostSubject: Re: Hey! New here...   Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:45 pm

Welcome! Feel free to contribute any ideas anywhere, it's what most of us do. As for us dying, we have already done far too much to just leave this be, you don't have to worry. The project has really grown in the last year and we are coming closer to our first planets and eventually a whole galaxy.
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PostSubject: Re: Hey! New here...   Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:26 pm

Eh heh... to be honest, I've been trying to get a grasp on what the forum is really talking about, and which topics really need any sort of involvement on my part. I don't want to be that guy that intrudes for no reason. =P
Shame it's so hard to do so, but I figure if I lurk around enough, I can figure out who needs what. =P
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tklarenb
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PostSubject: Re: Hey! New here...   Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:41 pm

Zetal wrote:
Eh heh... to be honest, I've been trying to get a grasp on what the forum is really talking about, and which topics really need any sort of involvement on my part. I don't want to be that guy that intrudes for no reason. =P
Shame it's so hard to do so, but I figure if I lurk around enough, I can figure out who needs what. =P

Welcome! I'm just a regular member here, but hopefully I can point you in the right direction. Mysterious Calligrapher (head of the biomes department) is looking for non-earth biomes (the Earth ones were just finished). When I first joined, that's where I first headed. If that isn't your thing, just find a place where you think you can help.
Link: http://thrivegame.canadaboard.net/t474-biome-list
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PostSubject: Re: Hey! New here...   Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:24 pm

Thanks for the link! I've started working my way through that topic (16 pages?! Aaaa! I still have schoolwork, you know! lol)... but it's gonna take some time. In the meanwhile, do you or anyone else know whether there is an existing topic that bluntly lays out the framework for our 'Laws' of the ingredients that are REQUIRED for life? I saw a topic earlier that said that water was required for life as we know it- and then later went on to mention that there are substitutes as well. It was a tad vague, and I think it would be easier to reference people that give new ideas to a universal topic, instead of explaining things repeatedly.
=)

Edit: Also, would it be possible to gain access to the Wiki? I had a few very very basic concept races to add. Nothing special- just things to aim towards for a known landmark. I'm of the opinion that organization is very important, so if I have free time I'll probably spend it tending to the wiki and transferring information xP
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PostSubject: Re: Hey! New here...   Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:49 pm

Zetal wrote:
Thanks for the link! I've started working my way through that topic (16 pages?! Aaaa! I still have schoolwork, you know! lol)... but it's gonna take some time. In the meanwhile, do you or anyone else know whether there is an existing topic that bluntly lays out the framework for our 'Laws' of the ingredients that are REQUIRED for life? I saw a topic earlier that said that water was required for life as we know it- and then later went on to mention that there are substitutes as well. It was a tad vague, and I think it would be easier to reference people that give new ideas to a universal topic, instead of explaining things repeatedly.
=)

Edit: Also, would it be possible to gain access to the Wiki? I had a few very very basic concept races to add. Nothing special- just things to aim towards for a known landmark. I'm of the opinion that organization is very important, so if I have free time I'll probably spend it tending to the wiki and transferring information xP
If you stick around long enough, we'll let you on the wiki.

As for chemistry, we're requiring liquid water for all planets in the game, as well as carbon-based anatomy, because it's the only thing we know of that works. I'm a doubter that silicon-based life exists, simply because silicon doesn't seem to like to form chains like carbon does, and prefers to form lattices instead, though why, we really don't know. As for water, well, it's such a wonderful and unique chemical, it's polarity makes it a highly useful molecule.

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PostSubject: Re: Hey! New here...   Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:56 pm

~sciocont wrote:
Zetal wrote:
Thanks for the link! I've started working my way through that topic (16 pages?! Aaaa! I still have schoolwork, you know! lol)... but it's gonna take some time. In the meanwhile, do you or anyone else know whether there is an existing topic that bluntly lays out the framework for our 'Laws' of the ingredients that are REQUIRED for life? I saw a topic earlier that said that water was required for life as we know it- and then later went on to mention that there are substitutes as well. It was a tad vague, and I think it would be easier to reference people that give new ideas to a universal topic, instead of explaining things repeatedly.
=)

Edit: Also, would it be possible to gain access to the Wiki? I had a few very very basic concept races to add. Nothing special- just things to aim towards for a known landmark. I'm of the opinion that organization is very important, so if I have free time I'll probably spend it tending to the wiki and transferring information xP
If you stick around long enough, we'll let you on the wiki.

As for chemistry, we're requiring liquid water for all planets in the game, as well as carbon-based anatomy, because it's the only thing we know of that works. I'm a doubter that silicon-based life exists, simply because silicon doesn't seem to like to form chains like carbon does, and prefers to form lattices instead, though why, we really don't know. As for water, well, it's such a wonderful and unique chemical, it's polarity makes it a highly useful molecule.

Thank you for the reply!
I understand the carbon limitation, as it really does seem like the most reasonable implementation when considering both coding work, and also a realistic, scientific approach. I thought that water was a key factor for life as well, but according to certain sources(was going to hyperlink the source here, but new members cannot post links) that I found, it is apparently just a liquid medium that is required. If, however, we arbitrarily decide to stick with only water, I understand completely from a coding standpoint. If we were to branch out into other compounds, all of the other hypotheticals would have to be considered, and it would really just complicate the game more than is, perhaps, entirely necessary.
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PostSubject: Re: Hey! New here...   Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:09 pm

Zetal wrote:
~sciocont wrote:
Zetal wrote:
Thanks for the link! I've started working my way through that topic (16 pages?! Aaaa! I still have schoolwork, you know! lol)... but it's gonna take some time. In the meanwhile, do you or anyone else know whether there is an existing topic that bluntly lays out the framework for our 'Laws' of the ingredients that are REQUIRED for life? I saw a topic earlier that said that water was required for life as we know it- and then later went on to mention that there are substitutes as well. It was a tad vague, and I think it would be easier to reference people that give new ideas to a universal topic, instead of explaining things repeatedly.
=)

Edit: Also, would it be possible to gain access to the Wiki? I had a few very very basic concept races to add. Nothing special- just things to aim towards for a known landmark. I'm of the opinion that organization is very important, so if I have free time I'll probably spend it tending to the wiki and transferring information xP
If you stick around long enough, we'll let you on the wiki.

As for chemistry, we're requiring liquid water for all planets in the game, as well as carbon-based anatomy, because it's the only thing we know of that works. I'm a doubter that silicon-based life exists, simply because silicon doesn't seem to like to form chains like carbon does, and prefers to form lattices instead, though why, we really don't know. As for water, well, it's such a wonderful and unique chemical, it's polarity makes it a highly useful molecule.

Thank you for the reply!
I understand the carbon limitation, as it really does seem like the most reasonable implementation when considering both coding work, and also a realistic, scientific approach. I thought that water was a key factor for life as well, but according to certain sources(was going to hyperlink the source here, but new members cannot post links) that I found, it is apparently just a liquid medium that is required. If, however, we arbitrarily decide to stick with only water, I understand completely from a coding standpoint. If we were to branch out into other compounds, all of the other hypotheticals would have to be considered, and it would really just complicate the game more than is, perhaps, entirely necessary.
As I understand it, this is correct- for life to form, you only need the right ingredients in a good solvent. as water is the best solvent, the universal solvent, it's probably the best to use. For multicellular life, which uses many extremely complex and tiered chemical reactions, water is an excellent solvent, because it can be used to make and break bonds through hydrolysis. It's here that water becomes necessary, because hydrolysis, by definition, needs water. A similar reaction could conceivably take place with modified organic molecules in an alcohol, but these reactions would have to be even more complex, since the alcohol would need more atoms to bond to. From a chemical standpoint, water is the simplest, easiest solvent to ues. From an ecological standpoint, water allows ocean floor life and deep ocean life to exist, since it expands as it solidifies, so the floor of a water ocean will freeze over only after the top has.

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Zetal
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PostSubject: Re: Hey! New here...   Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:14 pm

~sciocont wrote:
Zetal wrote:
~sciocont wrote:
Zetal wrote:
Thanks for the link! I've started working my way through that topic (16 pages?! Aaaa! I still have schoolwork, you know! lol)... but it's gonna take some time. In the meanwhile, do you or anyone else know whether there is an existing topic that bluntly lays out the framework for our 'Laws' of the ingredients that are REQUIRED for life? I saw a topic earlier that said that water was required for life as we know it- and then later went on to mention that there are substitutes as well. It was a tad vague, and I think it would be easier to reference people that give new ideas to a universal topic, instead of explaining things repeatedly.
=)

Edit: Also, would it be possible to gain access to the Wiki? I had a few very very basic concept races to add. Nothing special- just things to aim towards for a known landmark. I'm of the opinion that organization is very important, so if I have free time I'll probably spend it tending to the wiki and transferring information xP
If you stick around long enough, we'll let you on the wiki.

As for chemistry, we're requiring liquid water for all planets in the game, as well as carbon-based anatomy, because it's the only thing we know of that works. I'm a doubter that silicon-based life exists, simply because silicon doesn't seem to like to form chains like carbon does, and prefers to form lattices instead, though why, we really don't know. As for water, well, it's such a wonderful and unique chemical, it's polarity makes it a highly useful molecule.

Thank you for the reply!
I understand the carbon limitation, as it really does seem like the most reasonable implementation when considering both coding work, and also a realistic, scientific approach. I thought that water was a key factor for life as well, but according to certain sources(was going to hyperlink the source here, but new members cannot post links) that I found, it is apparently just a liquid medium that is required. If, however, we arbitrarily decide to stick with only water, I understand completely from a coding standpoint. If we were to branch out into other compounds, all of the other hypotheticals would have to be considered, and it would really just complicate the game more than is, perhaps, entirely necessary.
As I understand it, this is correct- for life to form, you only need the right ingredients in a good solvent. as water is the best solvent, the universal solvent, it's probably the best to use. For multicellular life, which uses many extremely complex and tiered chemical reactions, water is an excellent solvent, because it can be used to make and break bonds through hydrolysis. It's here that water becomes necessary, because hydrolysis, by definition, needs water. A similar reaction could conceivably take place with modified organic molecules in an alcohol, but these reactions would have to be even more complex, since the alcohol would need more atoms to bond to. From a chemical standpoint, water is the simplest, easiest solvent to ues. From an ecological standpoint, water allows ocean floor life and deep ocean life to exist, since it expands as it solidifies, so the floor of a water ocean will freeze over only after the top has.

I agree entirely, and would assume that you are entirely correct. The article still claims otherwise, but I'm not one to assume that the internet is always correct, since it clearly isn't, but I figure I may as well attempt to show where I've found this information. I should state, however, that I'm still doubtful regarding the claims of this article simply because they really don't go into very much depth at all regarding the "how" behind their statement, so it's entirely possible that they're just making base claims without any actual study of the facts.

Quote :
A Liquid Medium
For organisms on Earth, there's no more important ingredient for survival than water. It's not the H2O itself that is necessary for all life, but liquids in general. "There can't be life in a solid, and there can't be life in a gas," the University of Washington's Peter Ward told Carl Zimmer in a 2006 cover story for Popular Mechanics. "In a gas, molecules are flying around so quickly that they can't carry out the complicated chemical reactions necessary for life," Ward said. "In a solid, they can barely move at all."

Other liquid mediums could prove to be hosting life as well. "The most plausible would be ammonia," House says, like that found on Saturn's moon, Enceladus. Liquid methane, like that found on Titan, could also be hospitable to life.

Read more: Extremophiles and Life - The Ingredients for Life - Popular Mechanics
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PostSubject: Re: Hey! New here...   Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:22 pm

While ammonia is a good liquid, nitrogen is ten times less abundant in the cosmos than oxygen, and condenses as it freezes. However, it does have some very interesting properties as a solvent. When combusted, though, ammonia forms... water. Many reactions ammonia goes through that would be important to life usually require water.

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PostSubject: Re: Hey! New here...   Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:27 pm

~sciocont wrote:
While ammonia is a good liquid, nitrogen is ten times less abundant in the cosmos than oxygen, and condenses as it freezes. However, it does have some very interesting properties as a solvent. When combusted, though, ammonia forms... water. Many reactions ammonia goes through that would be important to life usually require water.

On a world that has a certain elemental composition based simply upon the distribution of elements throughout it's solar system, it's entirely possible that the nitrogen to oxygen ratio is the opposite of what it is overall in the cosmos, correct? I think that it would be in the best interest of the game to simply stick with only water as a building block of life, and not attempt to replace it with anything fundamentally different. Not because it is impossible, but because we just don't have enough thoroughly studied examples, or even any examples in some situations, of life functioning with a replacement. As such, it would require too much theorizing for a video game that attempts to follow known science and make game play reasonable.
Let me know if I overstepped any bounds in these assumptions. =) I'm glad this was settled, though. I still think we should make a summary topic for this, and pin it in an appropriate section. Thoroughly explained guidelines for life would avoid and discussion like this in the future, especially if logical arguments are laid out in the topic itself.
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PostSubject: Re: Hey! New here...   Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:51 pm

Zetal wrote:
~sciocont wrote:
While ammonia is a good liquid, nitrogen is ten times less abundant in the cosmos than oxygen, and condenses as it freezes. However, it does have some very interesting properties as a solvent. When combusted, though, ammonia forms... water. Many reactions ammonia goes through that would be important to life usually require water.

On a world that has a certain elemental composition based simply upon the distribution of elements throughout it's solar system, it's entirely possible that the nitrogen to oxygen ratio is the opposite of what it is overall in the cosmos, correct? I think that it would be in the best interest of the game to simply stick with only water as a building block of life, and not attempt to replace it with anything fundamentally different. Not because it is impossible, but because we just don't have enough thoroughly studied examples, or even any examples in some situations, of life functioning with a replacement. As such, it would require too much theorizing for a video game that attempts to follow known science and make game play reasonable.
Let me know if I overstepped any bounds in these assumptions. =) I'm glad this was settled, though. I still think we should make a summary topic for this, and pin it in an appropriate section. Thoroughly explained guidelines for life would avoid and discussion like this in the future, especially if logical arguments are laid out in the topic itself.
I completely agree, but it is fun to discuss.

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PostSubject: Re: Hey! New here...   Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:54 pm

~sciocont wrote:
Zetal wrote:
~sciocont wrote:
While ammonia is a good liquid, nitrogen is ten times less abundant in the cosmos than oxygen, and condenses as it freezes. However, it does have some very interesting properties as a solvent. When combusted, though, ammonia forms... water. Many reactions ammonia goes through that would be important to life usually require water.

On a world that has a certain elemental composition based simply upon the distribution of elements throughout it's solar system, it's entirely possible that the nitrogen to oxygen ratio is the opposite of what it is overall in the cosmos, correct? I think that it would be in the best interest of the game to simply stick with only water as a building block of life, and not attempt to replace it with anything fundamentally different. Not because it is impossible, but because we just don't have enough thoroughly studied examples, or even any examples in some situations, of life functioning with a replacement. As such, it would require too much theorizing for a video game that attempts to follow known science and make game play reasonable.
Let me know if I overstepped any bounds in these assumptions. =) I'm glad this was settled, though. I still think we should make a summary topic for this, and pin it in an appropriate section. Thoroughly explained guidelines for life would avoid and discussion like this in the future, especially if logical arguments are laid out in the topic itself.
I completely agree, but it is fun to discuss.

Agreed. =)
On a different note, is there an open topic that is discussing the effect of overly plentiful resources on the species of a planet, or vice versa? I don't know how entirely true this is, but I recall an old television feature on the science channel that demonstrated much much larger creatures in Earth's history because of a surplus of oxygen and other raw materials. As such, would it be logical to limit the size of a creature based on the amounts of a given resource on a given planet?
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PostSubject: Re: Hey! New here...   Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:00 pm

During the mezozoic era, oxygen levels were much higher than they are today, allowing very large animals to dominate the planet. We call these animals dinosaurs. They were, obviously, quite large. higher oxygen levels mean larger animals because respiration takes up less work, so more resources can be spent on growth. Oxygen levels are definitely a factor in organism size, as is gravity. These are the primary forces acting on the size of an animal.

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PostSubject: Re: Hey! New here...   Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:03 pm

~sciocont wrote:
During the mezozoic era, oxygen levels were much higher than they are today, allowing very large animals to dominate the planet. We call these animals dinosaurs. They were, obviously, quite large. higher oxygen levels mean larger animals because respiration takes up less work, so more resources can be spent on growth. Oxygen levels are definitely a factor in organism size, as is gravity. These are the primary forces acting on the size of an animal.

I'm not sure if that was meant to be hilarious, but it was. xD I'm actually still laughing haha
But yea, I mean obviously I know about dinosaurs lol I suppose I didn't connect the two dots about what I saw on that TV feature and the facts I already know. Ooooopps. xD

Anyway...! Should I assume that these factors are being taken into account when players are creating their creatures, or is it being dropped so the player can have more creative freedom?
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PostSubject: Re: Hey! New here...   Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:09 pm

Zetal wrote:
~sciocont wrote:
During the mezozoic era, oxygen levels were much higher than they are today, allowing very large animals to dominate the planet. We call these animals dinosaurs. They were, obviously, quite large. higher oxygen levels mean larger animals because respiration takes up less work, so more resources can be spent on growth. Oxygen levels are definitely a factor in organism size, as is gravity. These are the primary forces acting on the size of an animal.

I'm not sure if that was meant to be hilarious, but it was. xD I'm actually still laughing haha
But yea, I mean obviously I know about dinosaurs lol I suppose I didn't connect the two dots about what I saw on that TV feature and the facts I already know. Ooooopps. xD

Anyway...! Should I assume that these factors are being taken into account when players are creating their creatures, or is it being dropped so the player can have more creative freedom?
Yeah, that was my little joke. We'll constrict the player from building anything unfeasible if they're building on a certain planet, but if they want to free-edit, they could build an organism optimized for essentially limitless resources. However, that org couldn't be used in the game, since it's highly unlikely that such a planet exists that could support that organism.

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Zetal
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PostSubject: Re: Hey! New here...   Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:12 pm

~sciocont wrote:
Zetal wrote:
~sciocont wrote:
During the mezozoic era, oxygen levels were much higher than they are today, allowing very large animals to dominate the planet. We call these animals dinosaurs. They were, obviously, quite large. higher oxygen levels mean larger animals because respiration takes up less work, so more resources can be spent on growth. Oxygen levels are definitely a factor in organism size, as is gravity. These are the primary forces acting on the size of an animal.

I'm not sure if that was meant to be hilarious, but it was. xD I'm actually still laughing haha
But yea, I mean obviously I know about dinosaurs lol I suppose I didn't connect the two dots about what I saw on that TV feature and the facts I already know. Ooooopps. xD

Anyway...! Should I assume that these factors are being taken into account when players are creating their creatures, or is it being dropped so the player can have more creative freedom?
Yeah, that was my little joke. We'll constrict the player from building anything unfeasible if they're building on a certain planet, but if they want to free-edit, they could build an organism optimized for essentially limitless resources. However, that org couldn't be used in the game, since it's highly unlikely that such a planet exists that could support that organism.

Okay, makes sense. =) Is that decision recorded anywhere, perhaps alongside of the guidelines for life?
I'm a picky forumer, but really, if you don't feel a need for it then I can shut up- my line of thought is that, as far as game development goes, everything is far more efficient if everyone knows where everything is.
Right??
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PostSubject: Re: Hey! New here...   Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:19 pm

It's kind of the dogma here. If you want to start keeping track of this, feel free. We can always do with better organization.

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PostSubject: Re: Hey! New here...   Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:21 pm

~sciocont wrote:
It's kind of the dogma here. If you want to start keeping track of this, feel free. We can always do with better organization.

Okay. =) I'll make a mental note to come back here for when I've proven myself.
I suppose I'm off to continue reading through the biome thread. (SIXTEEN PAAAAGGEEESSS) lol
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PostSubject: Re: Hey! New here...   Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:34 pm

Zetal wrote:
~sciocont wrote:
It's kind of the dogma here. If you want to start keeping track of this, feel free. We can always do with better organization.

Okay. =) I'll make a mental note to come back here for when I've proven myself.
I suppose I'm off to continue reading through the biome thread. (SIXTEEN PAAAAGGEEESSS) lol
It's better if you read the NPC auto evo and OE threads first.

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PostSubject: Re: Hey! New here...   Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:35 pm

~sciocont wrote:
Zetal wrote:
~sciocont wrote:
It's kind of the dogma here. If you want to start keeping track of this, feel free. We can always do with better organization.

Okay. =) I'll make a mental note to come back here for when I've proven myself.
I suppose I'm off to continue reading through the biome thread. (SIXTEEN PAAAAGGEEESSS) lol
It's better if you read the NPC auto evo and OE threads first.
Too laaate~ haha. Already read it.

and replied, too.

Anyway, I'll go read the OE thread first. Are you referring to the "OE CC" thread, or something else?
(In the meantime, I'll try and find the NPC auto evo)
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