Culture Editor Features/Usage Discussion

eumesmo wrote:

you mean something like war ethics? deployment of nukes, bio weps, treating war prisioners... i think that depends of the type of nation you have and the other nation type.... But a "handbook of rules you have to follow" is a bad concept cause that goes against technological advancement.... those strict rules of the samurai were worthless against machine guns....

Your ethics will be part of your nation.

~sciocont wrote:

eumesmo wrote:

you mean something like war ethics? deployment of nukes, bio weps, treating war prisioners... i think that depends of the type of nation you have and the other nation type.... But a "handbook of rules you have to follow" is a bad concept cause that goes against technological advancement.... those strict rules of the samurai were worthless against machine guns....

Your ethics will be part of your nation.

Not necessarily. Your ethics might be 'I will kill everyone I don't like and no-one will stop me' on a bad day, but that's not necessarily your nation's beliefs. Not saying you're wrong, but this is a game, people will use whatever rules they want.

If someone tries make war with me, for example, I'd say: "Get lost, I'm busy developing space travel. Yes, my shuttles have the potential to blow up your country, but did I? Nooo!!!" Problem solved.

The Uteen wrote:

~sciocont wrote:

eumesmo wrote:

you mean something like war ethics? deployment of nukes, bio weps, treating war prisioners... i think that depends of the type of nation you have and the other nation type.... But a "handbook of rules you have to follow" is a bad concept cause that goes against technological advancement.... those strict rules of the samurai were worthless against machine guns....

Your ethics will be part of your nation.

Not necessarily. Your ethics might be 'I will kill everyone I don't like and no-one will stop me' on a bad day, but that's not necessarily your nation's beliefs. Not saying you're wrong, but this is a game, people will use whatever rules they want.

If someone tries make war with me, for example, I'd say: "Get lost, I'm busy developing space travel. Yes, my shuttles have the potential to blow up your country, but did I? Nooo!!!" Problem solved.

In Strategy Mode, your ethics will be handled in the Nation Editor. In Org Mode, then whatever you get your organism to do is whatever it does. It may have no ethics at the hands of the player.

US_of_Alaska wrote:

The Uteen wrote:

~sciocont wrote:

eumesmo wrote:

you mean something like war ethics? deployment of nukes, bio weps, treating war prisioners... i think that depends of the type of nation you have and the other nation type.... But a "handbook of rules you have to follow" is a bad concept cause that goes against technological advancement.... those strict rules of the samurai were worthless against machine guns....

Your ethics will be part of your nation.

Not necessarily. Your ethics might be 'I will kill everyone I don't like and no-one will stop me' on a bad day, but that's not necessarily your nation's beliefs. Not saying you're wrong, but this is a game, people will use whatever rules they want.

If someone tries make war with me, for example, I'd say: "Get lost, I'm busy developing space travel. Yes, my shuttles have the potential to blow up your country, but did I? Nooo!!!" Problem solved.

In Strategy Mode, your ethics will be handled in the Nation Editor. In Org Mode, then whatever you get your organism to do is whatever it does. It may have no ethics at the hands of the player.

Exactly.
What you outlined there is a good example of a foreign policy, It's called massive retaliation, and was used by US president Dwight D Eisenhower in the 1950s to keep the soviets at bay.

Just to recap, are we happy with these three sections of the Nation Editor?

Government
-Leaders
-Legislation
-Power
-Domestic Policy
-Foreign Policy
-Economic Policy

Society
-Religion
-Social Programs and Welfare
-Aesthetics and Entertainment
-Ethics

Economy
-Resources
-Technology
-Education
-Media

Quote :

agreed. however, it is usually easier to start with something simple and then add complexity rather than go the other way.

YES!!

In the country editor or whatever, I think we should keep it as vague as possible. What if it's actually rare for an organism to wear clothes? What if most organism's planets/countries don't even have a leader? Why should we assume every civilization in the universe follows the exact tech tree as humans?

We should keep the basics that every possible country would have EDIT(such as):

Economy
Foreign Policy

Technology
Resources

If we try to simulate too much, it's like approaching the speed of light. You need infinite energy.

roadkillguy wrote:

In the country editor or whatever, I think we should keep it as vague as possible. What if it's actually rare for an organism to wear clothes? What if most organism's planets/countries don't even have a leader? Why should we assume every civilization in the universe follows the exact tech tree as humans?

We should keep the basics that every possible country would have:

Economy
Foreign Policy

Technology
Resources

If we try to simulate too much, it's like approaching the speed of light. You need infinite energy.

I don't understand you... I just read a post of yours in the religion editor thread saying how it was a good idea, and yet here and now you completely remove the society and thus religion sections of the Nation Editor...

And do you really think its a stretch to believe that sapient alien races have society? If they don't, then they are not sapient! And unless it is a hive-minded organism that has somehow acquired sapience, there will be a leader. Cutting this much from the Nation Editor turns the entire Strategy Mode into a non-game. So now we can control resources (which, its true, every country must have)
technology (i'd like to ask what you expect us to do here if we can't follow human development as a reference!)
foreign policy (all aliens would have this and not domestic policy???)
and the economy (but what if they do not trade? what if the hive-minded creatures all share food through their umbilical cords into their nest?)

Sorry, but i cannot see how this game would be fun or scientific if we cut out everything that might be different on an alien world. We only have one reference point! We must use it!

Alaska, I give your Ideas complete greenlight. I totally agree.

Wow I suck.

I really, really thought I edited that post to add more, but I guess I didn't. I apologize. I don't know what I was thinking. You're completely right.

I guess I was trying to say we should start small and work our way up.

I'm really, really, sorry.

Humans were naturally leader based before we became sapient, as are most mammals and pack based Organisms. Sapience is just the extension of our original natural state.

roadkillguy wrote:

Wow I suck.

I really, really thought I edited that post to add more, but I guess I didn't. I apologize. I don't know what I was thinking. You're completely right.

I guess I was trying to say we should start small and work our way up.

I'm really, really, sorry.

No big deal, i was on a bit of a rage this morning (or a 'you-suck-ramapage'). Knowing that you just forgot to edit it makes me feel a whole lot less disappointed in you, by the way. Roadkill, it wasn't an attack on you personally. I was just really confused. I understand more now, but i didn't mean to make you feel bad or anything. You're a valuable asset here, rk. Don't forget that. So no hard feelings, alright?

Anyways, i just want everyone to be on the same page before i go creating a 'current concept' sticky. More feedback would be appreciated!

Everything on that list on page 4 seems good Alaska. One question though, if I'm not mistaken, clothes will be handled in the TE right? Didn't we have some sort of connection between the TE and NE for clothes?

Like, the culture or fashion at that time would be changed in the NE and then the actual making of the clothes were carried out in the TE??

YourBreakfast wrote:

Everything on that list on page 4 seems good Alaska. One question though, if I'm not mistaken, clothes will be handled in the TE right? Didn't we have some sort of connection between the TE and NE for clothes?

Like, the culture or fashion at that time would be changed in the NE and then the actual making of the clothes were carried out in the TE??

I believe that would go under aesthetics and entertainment.

eumesmo wrote:

i understand problem solving

problem solving of a logic society: science
problem solving of a religious one: go to church and pray (0.00001% chance of working....)


if there is a battle one culture might go inventive what will go really well (or badly) and the other might go in a rigid tactic and possibly loose.....

with the religion, are we suggesting that divine powers exist? even at unrealistic lows, if there are gods, it really spices things up...

Slathazer wrote:

eumesmo wrote:

i understand problem solving

problem solving of a logic society: science
problem solving of a religious one: go to church and pray (0.00001% chance of working....)


if there is a battle one culture might go inventive what will go really well (or badly) and the other might go in a rigid tactic and possibly loose.....

with the religion, are we suggesting that divine powers exist? even at unrealistic lows, if there are gods, it really spices things up...

No. Gods are not included into the game.

I see... religion would just be societal then...

Slathazer wrote:

I see... religion would just be societal then...

Exactly.

i have an idea. how about this

technology: ideas from populus give you more tech points to spend on upgrading units, structures, traditions, belief systems, and government.

these ''points'' could be spent on certain ideas such as this example.

lets say a speices of mountain dweling animals on a thick atmosphere world, evolves a brain capable of developing advanced tools. this speices tech tree would be different due to the planets atributes. this planet would make it much easier to make flying vehicles because of the thick soupy atmosphere, almost like a gas giant. lets say it has a low gravity as well, this means technologies affected by gravity like ranged wepons (spears, arrows) would be cheaper to spend reseach points on, but on land vehicles it is rough mountain terrain so it would be more expensive on reasources and tech points. but the tree would look diferent. i am not sure how different the ''tree'' would be because i do not know of any planets that would be very different enough to change it much.
i would say making the most influencial inventions in history would be apart of this system.
examples: trade, curency, balistics(arrows, throwing spears), traping, civilization(basicly organised rule and non nomadic behavior), the wheel or floatation devices(cart, boats, rafts, ect.), physics(the trebuchet was made by these laws), mathmatics(leads to curency), stone working, metal working, ect.

religion: like in one of my favorite games civilization 5 make it that you found a religion you pick one of your people so to say.... and make up a story in a textbox then choose the effects that would make the most sence for it.

examples of beliefs: the scary monster kills kids at night, but is invisible and makes them sick. {early explanation of sickness} so the beiliefs associated wit hthis would be something like this.
demon sickness: + 40% more control of populus that belief this/but it also makes them more frightful of the word ''x''

somthing like that.
anyway i would love that you make this game like civ 5 in a few ways like founding cities, and structures for certain things, like culture, religion, farming/hunting/food, science/learning, government, trade/economic, reasoure gathering (mines, tree orchird, Etc.)

Slathazer wrote:

eumesmo wrote:

i understand problem solving

problem solving of a logic society: science
problem solving of a religious one: go to church and pray (0.00001% chance of working....)


if there is a battle one culture might go inventive what will go really well (or badly) and the other might go in a rigid tactic and possibly loose.....

with the religion, are we suggesting that divine powers exist? even at unrealistic lows, if there are gods, it really spices things up...

I just had an epic idea about me playing someone's god...

That would be quite interesting, although does anyone object to that?
Its not realistic, but it would be very fun, so we need to decide thy fate of this here epic idea.

I don't really see why it wouldn't be feasible to keep it within reason while still having fun. =P Anything not sufficiently understood can be defined as magic. Ie, become spacefaring, find sentient, underdeveloped world...
Become their god. xD

US_of_Alaska wrote:

Just to recap, are we happy with these three sections of the Nation Editor?

Government
-Leaders
-Legislation
-Power
-Domestic Policy
-Foreign Policy
-Economic Policy

Society
-Religion
-Social Programs and Welfare
-Aesthetics and Entertainment
-Ethics

Economy
-Resources
-Technology
-Education
-Media

could there be more than one religion? because i loved founding religion in civ 4 like a boss!

also for the policies will there be some type of culture polacies in civ 5?

examples: liberty, freedom, honor, tradition, piety, autocracy, ect.

im just saying, in civ five autocracy is overall better if your a violent civ like me.....germany, russia, denark, america, and japan *cough* man i have to much fun with crushing other countries in civ 5.......i think im coming down with facismitus



anyway love the ideas youall make here

kingTherapsids wrote:

could there be more than one religion? because i loved founding religion in civ 4 like a boss!

also for the policies will there be some type of culture polacies in civ 5?

examples: liberty, freedom, honor, tradition, piety, autocracy, ect.

Religions will be randomly generated, and not just one but multiple. I do not know if players can customize their own. There are cultural policies, somewhat similar to Civ 5, under general themes close to what you listed. In Thrive they are instead called Cultural Traits. You can find the brainstorming thread for them here. I would appreciate if you contributed some of your own suggestions for our list.

I know at least that some TOs can be defined as a religious idol, so you could build a statue of yourself.

Oh really?
that would be pretty neat