Ascension Gates

When looking through the concept art thread, I saw that all of the recent art is of these things called ascension gates. From the name, and some descriptions with the pictures, I got the general idea that these gates were things that the species would fly a spaceship through, and then become a god. My only question is, why does the method of ascension have to be a giant space-portal? Could there not be other methods, like a ray that when it zapped the creature made them a god?

I think the choice should be given to the player, in the TE.
When you have the necessary technology, you'll be able to make an asiention-thing in the TE, and you can choose to build gates, rays, chambers, ovens!

Probably people are drawing them as 'gates' or 'portals' because it's engrained in our geekish sub-consciousness. (Also, I'm pretty sure that the words "Ascension Gates" are currently standing in for "Whatever you want to build that will make your organism godly.")

Though this is as good a place as any to say that methods of Ascension should not necessarily be mechanical. Up to the player, I guess.

Urgh... Ascension ovens... Bleurgh.

No, the reason gates are used (now) is that we have a sort of thing, like a tear in space-time (and it can be 3D, it doesn't have to look like a torn piece of cloth), and the gate spurts out huge amounts of energy from several connected dyson spheres (that is a lot of energy) and that stabilises the fault. Actually, I kinda like the name rift, too. Anyway, the idea is passing through the 'rift' will allow conciousnesses of sentient life-forms to ascend, becoming god-like.

And finally, it doesn't have to be a ring, but that shape would be ideal. It could also be an orb, with a hole for entry (a bit like a huge eye), or a cone, or a big open box, or many other shapes.

And it will be huge, a colossal construction, ranging from approx. half the size of the moon, to allow mass transit of ship through, or bigger than a planet, meaning entire planets could be launched through. If it was smaller, it would be very dangerous, you get literally ripped apart on the atomic level it the fault isn't stabilised, so getting close would be asking for trouble. That and getting close is something people would never risk, no-one wants to be painfully torn apart until there is nothing left.

Do I need to remind you that HUGE SIZE + EXTREME ENERGY REQUIREMENT = ENGINEERING NIGHTMARE? Stabilising a tear in the fabric of universe is going to have gigantic energy needs, so the smaller, the better. You can't effectively channel energy from one star to another, unless you send electromagnetic waves by K-F hyperdrives, and that eats a lot of energy itself.

Commander Keen wrote:

Do I need to remind you that HUGE SIZE + EXTREME ENERGY REQUIREMENT = ENGINEERING NIGHTMARE? Stabilising a tear in the fabric of universe is going to have gigantic energy needs, so the smaller, the better. You can't effectively channel energy from one star to another, unless you send electromagnetic waves by K-F hyperdrives, and that eats a lot of energy itself.

Who cares, huge gates look cool. And you are almost a god anyway.

Commander Keen wrote:

Do I need to remind you that HUGE SIZE + EXTREME ENERGY REQUIREMENT = ENGINEERING NIGHTMARE? Stabilising a tear in the fabric of universe is going to have gigantic energy needs, so the smaller, the better. You can't effectively channel energy from one star to another, unless you send electromagnetic waves by K-F hyperdrives, and that eats a lot of energy itself.

You could just get very long wires...

The point is it uses a lot of energy, and is huge, and that makes it a tough thing to build, that's the point! This is the biggest advance ever, it should be hard, if you could just make an oven, or cupboard or something that you can ascend through, it wouldn't seem like a big thing, but if the thing you are making is huge, has a high energy demand, and can make a whole planet become gods, you are definitely going to appreciate its importance, and what a great achievement it is to make one.

Quote :

You could just get very long wires...

That's the funnest thing I've heard in quite some time.

I don't know what use has a gate that can't be turned on because it hasn't got enough energy, but you are right. The size depends completly on the player constructing it, so if he makes it too big, he will have all the problems

The Uteen wrote:

And it will be huge, a colossal construction, ranging from approx. half the size of the moon, to allow mass transit of ship through, or bigger than a planet, meaning entire planets could be launched through. If it was smaller, it would be very dangerous, you get literally ripped apart on the atomic level it the fault isn't stabilised, so getting close would be asking for trouble. That and getting close is something people would never risk, no-one wants to be painfully torn apart until there is nothing left.

Why would you want to make it so big? What's the point in making worms in the dirt of planets become gods? I don't see how a giant rift would be more stable, if anything, you'd thing that the smaller it would be the easier it would be to control and stabilize (plus power, like what other people said)

DragonEye4 wrote:

The Uteen wrote:

And it will be huge, a colossal construction, ranging from approx. half the size of the moon, to allow mass transit of ship through, or bigger than a planet, meaning entire planets could be launched through. If it was smaller, it would be very dangerous, you get literally ripped apart on the atomic level it the fault isn't stabilised, so getting close would be asking for trouble. That and getting close is something people would never risk, no-one wants to be painfully torn apart until there is nothing left.

Why would you want to make it so big? What's the point in making worms in the dirt of planets become gods? I don't see how a giant rift would be more stable, if anything, you'd thing that the smaller it would be the easier it would be to control and stabilize (plus power, like what other people said)

The rift really doesn't have a set size, could be the size of a pea if you want, or the size of a skyscraper, but that doesn't really matter. Touch it and BAM! You're get torn apart into a load of quarks and electrons. So people don't want to get anywhere near it. The gate itself channels all the energy from several dyson spheres, a scarily huge amount of energy, and that determined amount of energy is channeled through, no more, no less, to stabilise it, cancelling out the devastating tearing-apart effect, allowing passage through. But that huge amount of energy does blow out any circuitry that gets too close, adding fear factor when you get close as the first to ascend and cannot retreat.

And if a creature isn't sentient, it cannot ascend, or at least once it does it cannot use god tools.

And if you did make it too big, the black hole at the center of the galaxy (the thing making the rift in the first place), would just gobble up the ascension gate. But planet size should be acceptable, for people wanting to send their whole planet through, meaning no making millions of spaceships for your entire population. It will take longer if you make it bigger though.

If you make the thing big enough to send a planet through, it will still be smaller than a dyson sphere, so less materials will be needed, and less time collecting and shaping them. Of course, high precision will be needed to avoid the gate failing and discharging the energy, probably killing everyone working on it, so they will be slow and careful, that should add some time back on.

And getting god tools usable post-ascension could be done by sending god machines through, or just as soon as you ascend. But would needing every god machine made and sent through be making this a bit over the top with difficulty? Say your opinion on this, I'm not leaning either way, I'd like to know what's more popular.

There is also the problem of people reusing the ascension gate, that would make ascension a challenge once, and then just one of those things you do... I mean, they could use another save to make their gate, but reusing one, without the effort of construction of it, is just too easy, sooo...... Tricky one. There is also the thing of god machines left over from an ascended race, if people decide against sending them through, they would have to fail or explode or something, but that seems a bit unrealistic, there isn't really a reason they would.

The Uteen wrote:

But that huge amount of energy does blow out any circuitry that gets too close, adding fear factor when you get close as the first to ascend and cannot retreat.

I dont think this should happen, especially if you are a machine race.

caekdaemon wrote:

The Uteen wrote:

But that huge amount of energy does blow out any circuitry that gets too close, adding fear factor when you get close as the first to ascend and cannot retreat.

I dont think this should happen, especially if you are a machine race.

I suppose that isn't strictly necessary. But machine races ascending? Interesting idea, in that case, could any sentient robot ascend? If so, that would also support god machines being sent in to get god tools...

[Subtopic]

So should we include mechanical ascension?

The Uteen wrote:

[Subtopic]

So should we include mechanical ascension?

Why not? Ascension is completely scientifically invalid anyway, so why not let mechanical player races (if those are permitted to evolve) do it too for gameplay purposes?

Djohaal wrote:

Commander Keen wrote:

Do I need to remind you that HUGE SIZE + EXTREME ENERGY REQUIREMENT = ENGINEERING NIGHTMARE? Stabilising a tear in the fabric of universe is going to have gigantic energy needs, so the smaller, the better. You can't effectively channel energy from one star to another, unless you send electromagnetic waves by K-F hyperdrives, and that eats a lot of energy itself.

Who cares, huge gates look cool. And you are almost a god anyway.

You DO know that Thrive is gonna be hyper-realistic,right?

I don't think it will be hyperrealistic (look at our evolution!), but you are right, we certainly have to break as little scientific laws as possible.

Commander Keen wrote:

I don't think it will be hyperrealistic (look at our evolution!), but you are right, we certainly have to break as little scientific laws as possible.

But that rule sort of breaks down for ascension, this is really just a gameplay thing. We can't be completely realistic, because it is impossible and it would get boring. Realism = reality. Who wants to play a game that resembles reality in every way? It'd be like playing a soap, except not as extreme. Soaps, extreme? That's a new one.

If we were hyper-realistic, the game would get very boring, very fast. Who wants to play one game non-stop for billions of years? Actually, scratch that, who wants a game that would blow up your computer because of uber-high demands?

Yes, that's why I say NOT hyperrealistic. But still, gameplay is on first place and science is on very, very close second place. While introducing Ascension gates, they will have problems with building materials and energy, the building process and the whole thing working.

Commander Keen wrote:

Yes, that's why I say NOT hyperrealistic. But still, gameplay is on first place and science is on very, very close second place. While introducing Ascension gates, they will have problems with building materials and energy, the building process and the whole thing working.

QFT

And yes, you did say that... Misread. Sorry.

I for one, vote for machine races and for them to be-able to achieve ascension... Also, if they make an ascension gate as big as their own planet... Wouldn't they run into the problem of mining resources once their planet is depleted, they would need to mine other planets for resources. Also, the need for energy for the spaceships to get back and forth from those "mining" planets, so wouldn't that prove to be a greater cost? and don't forget the amount of energy the gate(s) would need to be "powered"...

Ac-curious-Thrive-fan wrote:

I for one, vote for machine races and for them to be-able to achieve ascension... Also, if they make an ascension gate as big as their own planet... Wouldn't they run into the problem of mining resources once their planet is depleted, they would need to mine other planets for resources. Also, the need for energy for the spaceships to get back and forth from those "mining" planets, so wouldn't that prove to be a greater cost? and don't forget the amount of energy the gate(s) would need to be "powered"...

Basically, God Machines are required. There's nothing wrong with that, it is the end of the game.

Oh, and to recap - God Machines are huge (as in, moon-size) machines that require tons of material to build and energy to power, but give you the power of a certain portion of the God Tools, such as infinite resources, use of all editors, creation, destruction, etc. They've been covered, somewhere.

Machine races should be able to achieve ascension too, as long as they are sapient.
So as great as it sounds, there'll be no omnipotent Siri...


EDIT: Was this thread before God Machines? They weren't brought up once... Even by me, the space fanatic...

Yeah, the energy requirements we were worrying about are no problem: get enough energy to start up the unlimited resources god machine, and it can power itself, and everything else. And you get more than enough resources to make those very long wires.