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Thrive Game Development

Development of the evolution game Thrive.
 
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Rorsten594
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mike roberts
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PostSubject: extinction    extinction  EmptySun Jan 09, 2011 11:05 am

i am just saying we would have to implement this in some way i don't mean like spore's stupid " you kill 3 animals of the same species and they go extinct" i mean realistically like if u do kill a lot of a species they will go extinct ,or if you kill there main food source they will go extinct from that or adapt just , I want to see how we are going to incorporate this because we will need this to make it more realistic
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The Uteen
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PostSubject: Re: extinction    extinction  EmptySun Jan 09, 2011 11:39 am

Well, you just kill all of them and they will go extinct, because if there are none left they cannot reproduce. We aren't going to have babies appearing from nowhere, so once they are dead, they're dead. Or, if there is just a male/female, it cannot reproduce and so that species is as good as extinct, it's just a matter of time.

This does mean it is hard to wipe out species, and that's the way it should be. If I killed three ants, I don't think they'd become extinct.
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mike roberts
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PostSubject: Re: extinction    extinction  EmptySun Jan 09, 2011 2:17 pm

thank you, but what about there food source like lets say my creature is an herbivore and it eats all of this certain fruits in an area, if another creature depends those fruits for survival what would happen? should we even implement this?
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~sciocont
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PostSubject: Re: extinction    extinction  EmptySun Jan 09, 2011 3:50 pm

I'm really glad someone brought up extinction, because with the type of arbitrary mechanics we're using, extinction might be diffiult to deal with. In the real world, there are small and large extinctions- small is when one species goes extinct because it can't adapt to a new challenge, large is when the world changes very quickly and you get massive die-offs (like the permian, cretaceous, etc.)
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Commander Keen
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PostSubject: Re: extinction    extinction  EmptySun Jan 09, 2011 5:23 pm

I think we will have to make ideal conditions for species, like atmosphere or temperature, and then compare these with evolution. If there's a change sudden enough that evolution can't keep the pace, creature numbers will go down.

Things like predators could be handled by adding numbers of picked predatory species together. Maybe these could be determined by size? (0.75-5x size of your organism)
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mike roberts
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PostSubject: Re: extinction    extinction  EmptyTue Jan 11, 2011 5:29 pm

yeah along with that if there is a decline in the main predator in the area the population of species will go up with the change and a new creature that is more well adapted can assume the dominate role
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The Uteen
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PostSubject: Re: extinction    extinction  EmptyWed Jan 12, 2011 2:50 pm

mike roberts wrote:
yeah along with that if there is a decline in the main predator in the area the population of species will go up with the change and a new creature that is more well adapted can assume the dominate role

The predator can survive, and take back the dominant role, over and over again:

If the main predator's population declines, the prey's population grows rapidly. This makes it easier for the remaining predators, so the preys' population begins to fall again and the predators' population grows. They then begin competing for the now small amounts of prey, so their population drops again. This causes a huge cycle of populous predators and prey.

This happens a lot in nature, I think this should be accounted for in game, too, somehow. This would also vary the difficulty every now and then, making it more interesting to the player.

Sorry for going off topic, I do that.
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Mysterious_Calligrapher
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PostSubject: Re: extinction    extinction  EmptyThu Jan 13, 2011 8:05 pm

This space reserved for me digging out my ENVS/Ecology notes and spamming you with the mechanics of population. I just belgiumming love math. X/

Math Dump: the simple and slightly more in-depth way that we could implement population/extinction.
Spoiler:
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~sciocont
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PostSubject: Re: extinction    extinction  EmptyThu Jan 13, 2011 10:31 pm

Nice population mechanics.
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penumbra espinosa
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PostSubject: Re: extinction    extinction  EmptyTue Apr 26, 2011 11:00 pm

as i seed the concepts, extinctions are pretty simple, we have to determine a rate of disasters (regional or global) and let the extinction ratio to be adjusted by the player. or make it adjustable as part of the god mode.

extinctions come in several "flavors", each one of them is a challenge for the player because their species survival depends in its actions in the past and in the present. in the past because of its adaptations and in the present because it haves to deal with a new environment and haves to fill one of the open niches quickly or he will go extinct...

the point here is the extinction ratio...i heard that mass extinctions on earth have an average time of 100 million years of difference. interglacial periods tend to last only 20 thousand years while ice ages last for 500 thousand years...

the success of the extinctions will come if we get a way
to make them adjustable and random at the same time....
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PostSubject: Re: extinction    extinction  EmptyWed Apr 27, 2011 8:37 am

Disasters of all flavors fit into the programming model above as steep hikes in the death rate (due to disease or whatever else you wish) or steep drops in the available resources. I don't think that we should have anything specifically designed to wipe species out - after all, a species will survive multiple disasters - but these disasters definitely will speed up adaptation in some and knock off others.

My idea for disaster implementation was:
1) The random diseases Scio's already got covered. Sharp increase in death rate.
2) Earthquakes/floods/tornadoes etc: No idea how they will be programmed, but they will cause disruption of Biomes and therefore disruption of resources.
3) Resources are tied into Biomes. This will be discussed in much greater depth when we have more biomes, but all of the absolute necessaries can be found in each biome, and disrupting them is a horrible, horrrible idea. It most likely will cause large die offs if it happens quickly, (rather than at the ultra-slow rate that is secession) and since most large-scale extinctions are tied into a change in habitat, this is probably our biggest killer.

/Calli's overexplanation.
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Deathbite42
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PostSubject: Re: extinction    extinction  EmptyThu Aug 02, 2012 1:25 pm

Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote:
This space reserved for me digging out my ENVS/Ecology notes and spamming you with the mechanics of population. I just belgiumming love math. X/

Math Dump: the simple and slightly more in-depth way that we could implement population/extinction.
Spoiler:
Round down, not up. If there are enough berries to feed half a bear, it will not mean you get that bear. It means you WON'T and those berries will be left till they build up enough to feed a bear or more. Than, the number of bears that can feed on the new berries will be added, starting everything all over again.
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Deathbite42
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PostSubject: Re: extinction    extinction  EmptyThu Aug 02, 2012 1:27 pm

Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote:
Disasters of all flavors fit into the programming model above as steep hikes in the death rate (due to disease or whatever else you wish) or steep drops in the available resources. I don't think that we should have anything specifically designed to wipe species out - after all, a species will survive multiple disasters - but these disasters definitely will speed up adaptation in some and knock off others.

My idea for disaster implementation was:
1) The random diseases Scio's already got covered. Sharp increase in death rate.
2) Earthquakes/floods/tornadoes etc: No idea how they will be programmed, but they will cause disruption of Biomes and therefore disruption of resources.
3) Resources are tied into Biomes. This will be discussed in much greater depth when we have more biomes, but all of the absolute necessaries can be found in each biome, and disrupting them is a horrible, horrrible idea. It most likely will cause large die offs if it happens quickly, (rather than at the ultra-slow rate that is secession) and since most large-scale extinctions are tied into a change in habitat, this is probably our biggest killer.

/Calli's overexplanation.
But extinctions CAN wipe species out. Think of T-rex. Perhaps there are "birds" but those do not descend directly from T-rex.
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kingTherapsids
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PostSubject: Re: extinction    extinction  EmptyTue Sep 11, 2012 6:07 pm

if anyone hasn't already mentions this idea id love to say this!

how about like in sim city you trigger invasions meteors and stuff. but do that here! it would be a cool challenge for the player, even have a random thing based on difficulty.
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Silver Sterling
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PostSubject: Re: extinction    extinction  EmptyTue Sep 11, 2012 6:51 pm

There has been already discussed about difficult sliders and i would be glad to see one as random catastrophes aswell.
And for making one by yourself like in sim city, you would be able to do so in the sandbox mode.
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PostSubject: Re: extinction    extinction  EmptyThu Sep 13, 2012 6:11 pm

Silver Sterling wrote:
There has been already discussed about difficult sliders and i would be glad to see one as random catastrophes aswell.
And for making one by yourself like in sim city, you would be able to do so in the sandbox mode.


Would extinctions affect evo

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The Uteen
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PostSubject: Re: extinction    extinction  EmptyFri Sep 14, 2012 11:22 am

Rorsten594 wrote:
Silver Sterling wrote:
There has been already discussed about difficult sliders and i would be glad to see one as random catastrophes aswell.
And for making one by yourself like in sim city, you would be able to do so in the sandbox mode.


Would extinctions affect evo


If a creatures becomes extinct, another new/existing organism would have to take it's niche. The npc auto-evo thread (link) has auto-evo's detailed details, in detail.
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Silver Sterling
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PostSubject: Re: extinction    extinction  EmptyFri Sep 14, 2012 12:24 pm

Realistically seen, it could also give a species who would extinct if the other species doesn't extinct (could be a danger in the future) give a better chance to survive.
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PostSubject: Re: extinction    extinction  EmptySat Sep 15, 2012 8:55 pm

What would happen if a mass extinction happened in a biome would the entire ecosystem collapse
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Zetal
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PostSubject: Re: extinction    extinction  EmptySun Sep 16, 2012 12:22 am

I think that if a species that was pivotal to the structure of an environment went extinct too quickly, yes. If it was gradual, the creatures would adapt.
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PostSubject: Re: extinction    extinction  EmptyMon Oct 22, 2012 2:03 pm

The Uteen wrote:
Well, you just kill all of them and they will go extinct, because if there are none left they cannot reproduce. We aren't going to have babies appearing from nowhere, so once they are dead, they're dead. Or, if there is just a male/female, it cannot reproduce and so that species is as good as extinct, it's just a matter of time.

This does mean it is hard to wipe out species, and that's the way it should be. If I killed three ants, I don't think they'd become extinct.

Well, how many species are going to be on the planet? Like how many creatures are on your planet? And is this essential to evolution like Spore? I didn't like the idea were you can ally, so is killing and eating evolution or is there a timer or something, when the right time is, you can evolve. Sorry for so many questions, but I can't post a thread yet.
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The Uteen
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PostSubject: Re: extinction    extinction  EmptyTue Oct 23, 2012 11:38 am

gvd72 wrote:
The Uteen wrote:
Well, you just kill all of them and they will go extinct, because if there are none left they cannot reproduce. We aren't going to have babies appearing from nowhere, so once they are dead, they're dead. Or, if there is just a male/female, it cannot reproduce and so that species is as good as extinct, it's just a matter of time.

This does mean it is hard to wipe out species, and that's the way it should be. If I killed three ants, I don't think they'd become extinct.

Well, how many species are going to be on the planet? Like how many creatures are on your planet? And is this essential to evolution like Spore? I didn't like the idea were you can ally, so is killing and eating evolution or is there a timer or something, when the right time is, you can evolve. Sorry for so many questions, but I can't post a thread yet.
Genocide thankfully isn't a requirement to evolve in Thrive. Instead, we will attempt to simulate a thing called genetic mutations, which change the organism over a period of generations.

As for the number of species on a planet… A lot. If anyone knows, I don't.
However, I can tell you that the planet is subdivided into biomes, which contain a reasonable number of plants, herbivores, and carnivores (or even a few omnivores). So, assuming about eleven species in a biome (five plant, three herbivore, two carnivore, and an omnivore), and ten biomes on a planet, we might have about 110 species per planet.
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PostSubject: Re: extinction    extinction  EmptyTue Oct 23, 2012 6:10 pm

So does that mean that there will be tundra and alpine regions?

Also, what about complex ecosystems? Will those be present?
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The Uteen
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PostSubject: Re: extinction    extinction  EmptyWed Oct 24, 2012 12:56 pm

I'll give you the links to a few relevant threads, which should inform you of the current state of things a bit more thoroughly than I could:

https://thrivegame.canadaboard.net/t470-factors-that-make-up-a-biome
https://thrivegame.canadaboard.net/t858-biomes-the-final-definition
https://thrivegame.canadaboard.net/t474-biome-list
https://thrivegame.canadaboard.net/t582-niches-biomes-and-resources-oh-my
https://thrivegame.canadaboard.net/t684-planetary-scales

And probably one of the most important threads here:
https://thrivegame.canadaboard.net/t575-npc-auto-evo-thread

Also, if you want to ask questions, there is the Miscellaneous Bugs And Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread.

P.S.
I wrote:
If the file size is the problem, we could always have a slider at the start for how big the planets are... Then we won't find ourselves too out-of-date when the average computer has about 10 terabytes of storage.
Wait, this might actually happen quite soon - most of Apple's desktops now come with 1 terabyte drives by default. This deserves a logo…

Spoiler:
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PostSubject: Re: extinction    extinction  EmptySat Jul 13, 2013 12:11 pm

Well a mass extinction could occur from things we already know have cause mass extinctions. These are all based off of animal armageddon btw.

Supervolcano, Gamma Rays, Asteriod, Continental break up like what happened with Pangea, or a shortage of food. And if you go by today's standards I estimate in about 1 million years Global Warming would make a HUGE variety of life to go extinct if they do not adapt in time, it is already almost too late for the polar bear though... I will miss those things.:cry: 
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