RedStar's Research Generation Concept- from the Backup Forum

I will copy/paste RedStar's Research generation concept here so we have something to go by.


It's pretty well established that Strategy Mode is going to be a kind of RTS. A fundamental part of any good RTS is Research - that is, resources invested in progressing technologically, culturally, and developmentally, generally along a Tech or Research Tree.

But in Thrive we should strive to use a more realistic model to generate research than simply having the player click a button and "discover" a technology. I'd like to try and imagine a more organic solution to the problem.
Research Points: Overview
Research Points are the units by which progress toward a Research Item is measured. Every advancement on the Research Tree takes a certain amount of Research Points to be "discovered". Some methods of generating Research Points might include:
*Spending money on Research at your government center
A Civ's capital building (or perhaps the Culture Editor) would include options for how much money should be spent per upkeep cycle on research. (Upkeep is a concept which we've yet to discuss, but which will represent in some way the ongoing expense of feeding citizens, maintaining infrastructure, paying workers, etc.) Early in the game, players would not be able to choose what, specifically, would be researched, only the field in which the research would be conducted (i.e. "Agricultural", "Physical", "Cultural"); this approach would yield somewhat random results until Scientific Method is researched.
*Tasking Worker units on certain buildings
Some building types might allow a Worker to be tasked on them for various purposes; for instance, tasking a worker on a Tool Shed might generate Research toward the next Research Item above Toolmaking. (Note that we've yet to outline any real building types)
*Tasking Worker units on certain tasks related to certain Research Items
Certain Worker tasks (i.e. mining Iron) might generate small amounts of Research Points toward related Research Items (i.e. Steel or Compass). The greater the gap between two Research Items, the less Research Points this method would generate.
*Visiting other cultures with different completed Research Items
Cultural diffusion is a driving force behind innovation; if one culture begins to interact with another, they'll have a chance at receiving a large bonus number of Research Points toward available Research Items the foreign culture has already unlocked. Note that the unit must return to their own culture's borders before the bonus is received! This would not be the case once Tech Items such as telegraphs or telephones become available.
*Constructing certain building types
There will likely be buildings, such as Foundries, Hospitals, Libraries, and different types of Laboratories, that increase research toward given areas by certain amounts (i.e. Foundries might add x% extra Research Points toward all metalworking research; Libraries might add x% to cultural research.) How we're going to handle Building Types is something that must still be discussed.
*Other factors?
There are certainly other possibilities for generating Research Points that I haven't thought of - post your suggestions in this thread!

As Research Items become more advanced, they will require an increasing number of Research Points to be unlocked. This will encourage a player to expand their Civ with more workers and buildings to generate more Research Points; however, Upkeep costs will discourage them from creating more than their Civ can sustain. Another strategy might be to stay small, but send scouts to interact with as many other cultures as possible, bringing home bonuses toward new Research Items.

If a Civ is conducting Research outside of their natural environment - i.e. if they are aquatic and Researching on land, or terrestrial and Researching in the ocean - those Research Items will cost twice as many Research Points. These Civs would also first need to unlock Tech, via Research Items, that allowed them to enter the foreign environment (such as water-filled or water-proof suits, for aquatics and terrestrials respectively).

For example, Fire might cost 200 Research Points for a terrestrial race, but 400 for an aquatic one; Steel might cost 2600 Research Points for a terrestrial race, but 5200 for an aquatic one. As we come up with more Research Items that are aquatic-only, this will work in reverse for terrestrial races.

Wow. Old. First line of the third paragraph says Evolutions! Fix that.

And i think this was copied from Red's thread, i cant take credit for it.

US_of_Alaska wrote:

Wow. Old. First line of the third paragraph says Evolutions! Fix that.

And i think this was copied from Red's thread, i cant take credit for it.

Both things have been fixed.


EDIT: Also, thanks for moving it.

(Re-read your first line)

US_of_Alaska wrote:

(Re-read your first line)

Oh.

*Embaressed Bump*

Don't kill me! Just bringing this thread back into veiw!

not trying to be a jerk, but this is like a wall of text... categories, maybe?

Could there be any inventors? One creature in a tribe or city who invents things? if there was some sort of random IQ generator, research could be attributed to that one individual, according to its feild of study. that way, effectivness of research could be determined by the inventors IQ, which could be determined by the education level of the city. just an Idea...

That makes sense. We have other "specialists", and this just seems to be a Research Specialist. How would such an individual influence research?

Xenopologist wrote:

That makes sense. We have other "specialists", and this just seems to be a Research Specialist. How would such an individual influence research?

a random study generator? so if you were to research lasers, you would need a research specialist who has degrees in science, physics, etc. and an IQ(or comparable attribute) that would regulate time and effectiveness of research projects.

your specialist idea is a bit too much like the already described allocation of resources to certain research subjects.

this means i have to allocate points into a research, and then on top of that i have to buy specialists for that research. and in the future, there might need to be many, many specialists to invent things. it just seems simpler to allocate the resources and be done with it.

not saying your idea is bad, in fact it is good, but it doesn't necessarily apply to a video game wellly(?).

toxiciron wrote:

your specialist idea is a bit too much like the already described allocation of resources to certain research subjects.

this means i have to allocate points into a research, and then on top of that i have to buy specialists for that research. and in the future, there might need to be many, many specialists to invent things. it just seems simpler to allocate the resources and be done with it.

not saying your idea is bad, in fact it is good, but it doesn't necessarily apply to a video game wellly(?).

well, i see your point. but there should be some restrictions toward research(or maybe thats already been thought of) still, the idea that something pops into the game annoys me. SOMEBODY invents it... maybe it could be as simple as a one sentence, randomly generated bio. something other than "you have spontaneously come up with the atomic bomb for some reason."

we could just allocate x number of population into research and x amount of funding into research

toxiciron wrote:

we could just allocate x number of population into research and x amount of funding into research

right. that works. and then some sort of "backstory generator"? it would make the game a tad more interesting...

if it is anything like the sims, it would probably end up like this

"you discovered LASERS after a major accident involving cake and a rather large tree! congratulations!"

if that's what you mean by a random backstory generator, i'm all for it... and the redonculous part was me being redonculous, i know it could be waaay better.

toxiciron wrote:

if it is anything like the sims, it would probably end up like this

"you discovered LASERS after a major accident involving cake and a rather large tree! congratulations!"

if that's what you mean by a random backstory generator, i'm all for it... and the redonculous part was me being redonculous, i know it could be waaay better.

I was thinking more in terms of " you've discovered lasers thanks to DR. Fuynorra's experimentation with signaling lights!" but that could be adapted, morphed, and changed to a feel of your desire. I shy away from outright ridiculousness though.

Just to reiterate, guys, there ARE researcher specialists. See the SC Concept for details.

I like the idea of having a backstory generated, but i'm not sure everyone else would appreciate it. Maybe a mod or plug-in would be best for this?

US_of_Alaska wrote:

I like the idea of having a backstory generated, but i'm not sure everyone else would appreciate it. Maybe a mod or plug-in would be best for this?

I concor. Although in some cases you'd already know the backstory: You went into org. mode and did it yourself. That'd be esspecially common with the early researches.

Ex.: Shaping some clay and then heating it up significantly, discovering it gets harder, would allocate a fair ton of research points to the Pottery research.

Tenebrarum wrote:

US_of_Alaska wrote:

I like the idea of having a backstory generated, but i'm not sure everyone else would appreciate it. Maybe a mod or plug-in would be best for this?

I concor. Although in some cases you'd already know the backstory: You went into org. mode and did it yourself. That'd be esspecially common with the early researches.

Ex.: Shaping some clay and then heating it up significantly, discovering it gets harder, would allocate a fair ton of research points to the Pottery research.

I had never thought of that...

Tenebrarum wrote:

US_of_Alaska wrote:

I like the idea of having a backstory generated, but i'm not sure everyone else would appreciate it. Maybe a mod or plug-in would be best for this?

I concor. Although in some cases you'd already know the backstory: You went into org. mode and did it yourself. That'd be esspecially common with the early researches.

Ex.: Shaping some clay and then heating it up significantly, discovering it gets harder, would allocate a fair ton of research points to the Pottery research.

This is something i don't think we've really thought about. It'll be hard to incorporate, but we really do need to have it in some way shape or form.

US_of_Alaska wrote:

This is something i don't think we've really thought about. It'll be hard to incorporate, but we really do need to have it in some way shape or form.

As with spawning ideologies, I think these would have to be attached to the researches.

Remember, everyone: Many great inventions on our world were discovered by accident: penecillin, vulcanized rubber, radioactivity, and pace-makers, to name a few. It only seems logical to create a tool that keeps track of how likely the chance is of an invention being accidentally discovered and how many of the resources necessary to make the invention are available, then "discovering" the invention (with the player's approval.)

For random researches and independent scientists, we have already implemented giving researches amounts of progress randomly over time, though it would depend on how many research specialists you have.