Economy Section - Media and Education Headings

We really need to figure out just what goes in here. We know there will be a resource table available through this section, as well as setting the currency. It also serves to show what research is being produced towards what. Also under this section is the list of FPs and TOs (obviously a full list is not displayed at all times). These is all fairly self-explanatory, but we also have the Education Section and the Media Section. We've not discussed these much at all. So let's try to, shall we?

I'll keep a record of what we can agree on in this post, so that we can easily add it to the wiki. Well, let's get going.

Education Current Concept

Spoiler:

Media Current Concept

Spoiler:

I think that maybe education can be handled in the same way as Arbritrary Mechanics, with each type of education having different effects. Also, numerous types could be present at once (like we have compulsory school, private university, corporate apprenticeships, state apprenticeships, state university, etc).

This gives me another idea. Perhaps education can be handled in three stages (because that's easy to relate to). Primary, Secondary, Specialist. Each stage would be unlocked along the lines of the Research Web. Where and when can be discussed in the Research and Inventions Effects Thread. Primary teaches basics (math, language, basic science). Secondary reinforces these basics, and Specialist specialises.

So what effect does this have on the game? Well, all population with a primary education would add a minuscule amount of points to your research production. All secondary educated population would add more points. And Specialist educated population are more effective at their specialisation (Entertainer, Worker, Medic, etc.).

The education systems that arise will depend on what research and inventions you have access to, as well as some options in the Nation Editor. Here are some traits i can think of:
Hereditary
Taught by parents. Not highly effective past primary. Cannot learn above parent's education.
Apprenticeship
Taught by people with knowledge of this level. Highly effective at all stages. Can learn at master's education level.
Religious
Taught by religious figures (Would be a specific religion). Highly effective at Primary and Secondary. Can learn at allowed level (some religions may not allow certain specialists). Students will end up members of this religion.
Corporate
Taught by corporate figures (Would be a specific corporation). Highly effective at all levels. Can learn at allowed level (some religions may not allow certain specialists). Students will end up employees at this corporation.
State
Taught by national figures. Highly effective at all levels. Can learn at allowed level (defined in Nation Editor).
Independent
Taught by people from any and all aspects of life. Highly effective at all levels. Can learn at level of education of the population that the system employs.

There may also occur traits that demand a certain class or caste.

These traits can be applied to any of the education steps. Here are some example education systems: Apprenticeship Specialist, High Caste Independent Primary, Middle Caste Religious Secondary, you get the idea. The player can then choose to illegalise, encourage or make compulsory any of these systems at the cost of resources.

Questions and comments wanted.

Sounds good, and it's true we don't have much in this area.

And now for some constructive criticism: Wouldn't hereditary education be a more... Instinctual sort of thing? I mean, our parents teach us basic human language, as well as many life skills, and that's not really something it's possible to illegalise (not in dictionary?), you'd have to separate the parent from the child at birth, which wouldn't exactly be an educational matter. However, making parents have to teach their children would be something you could do... But I'm not sure if every family can be monitored, and exams would be quite unorganised, so... Maybe just encouragement is an option for that one?

I have questions, too:

How associated would a school have to be with a religion to be classed as religious? My primary school was a church of england one, but that just involved walking down the road to a local church, singing a few hymns, then walking back... Would that be classed as religious in that system? Oh, and I'm not a christian, so religious schools don't always get the pupils to follow that religion.

And corporate schools are an idea I haven't come across before... Do they exist?
(Whatever the answer, it'll seem a stupid question, so... Sorry for the stupid question)

I'm getting involved in civilisation-related topics. That's different.

The Uteen wrote:

Sounds good, and it's true we don't have much in this area.

And now for some constructive criticism: Wouldn't hereditary education be a more... Instinctual sort of thing? I mean, our parents teach us basic human language, as well as many life skills, and that's not really something it's possible to illegalise (not in dictionary?), you'd have to separate the parent from the child at birth, which wouldn't exactly be an educational matter. However, making parents have to teach their children would be something you could do... But I'm not sure if every family can be monitored, and exams would be quite unorganised, so... Maybe just encouragement is an option for that one?

I have questions, too:

How associated would a school have to be with a religion to be classed as religious? My primary school was a church of england one, but that just involved walking down the road to a local church, singing a few hymns, then walking back... Would that be classed as religious in that system? Oh, and I'm not a christian, so religious schools don't always get the pupils to follow that religion.

And corporate schools are an idea I haven't come across before... Do they exist?
(Whatever the answer, it'll seem a stupid question, so... Sorry for the stupid question)

I'm getting involved in civilisation-related topics. That's different.

Indeed, Hereditary would be the default education style, unlocked with oral tradition. But the player may choose to illegalise parental learning, and have all children be children educated by the state (this would be a great way to stop dissent towards the current government).

If funded by the religion, it will be a religious school. And it's true that it isn't a certainty to become part of that religion, but it should definitely become more likely.

Corporate schools are something i see occurring in very individualist societies, where the government parties are run by competing corporations or a single tyrant corporation. I think the only reason we don't have it in our society is because we don't allow it, and i can see the US trying it in a few years, when the corporations have sapped all the money from the state.

Media: media is information. The two properties of media are:
- Content
What the media tells the audience.
- Circulation
How the media is spread.

I have come up with the following ideas for Content:
Gossip
Useless information about the famous. +Happiness -Science
News
Information about events known to the publisher. +Happiness, player will be notified of major events.
Propaganda (for or against [party/religion/corporation/society model/etc])
Tries to influence people in favour or against political organisations, religions, corporations or aspects of society.
Entertainment
Simply entertaining media. ++Happiness
Educational
Teaches people something through media. ++Science -Happiness

These traits can also bu sub-traits. So for instance, a media could be Educational and Entertainment or Gossip and News. Now, for the circulation traits.

Circulation:
Word of Mouth
Spread person to person.
Community Board
Spread from a community board. Requires language and high literacy rates.
Printed
Spread through circulated papers.
Telecommunications
Spread through electronic communications (telephones)
Radio
Spread through radio transmitters and receivers.
Televised
Spread through Transmitted Images.
Computer Network
Spread through connected computers.
Internet
Spread through anything with internet access.

Circulation traits are dependent on Research and Inventions, and the amount of influence any media has is directly related to the number of related TOs and their connection to each other.d

Two words Alasaka: LOVE IT.

Just needs a bit of tweaking. For example, educational entertainment should give less happyness than other forms. Gossip could actually show a teensy decreese in science.

Tenebrarum wrote:

Two words Alasaka: LOVE IT.

Just needs a bit of tweaking. For example, educational entertainment should give less happyness than other forms. Gossip could actually show a teensy decreese in science.

Was wondering when you'd show up.

Both good. Will add.

Excellent work. I think educational media shouldn't necessarily decrease happiness, but I'm too nerdy to be a good judge of that.

~sciocont wrote:

Excellent work. I think educational media shouldn't necessarily decrease happiness, but I'm too nerdy to be a good judge of that.

I thought the same thing, but then i thought this: the decrease in happiness can represent the portion of the population who dislike this. And i was happy with it.

If you have a combination of anything, I think both aspects should be only partial. Eg. If you have educational and entertainment, it gets you half of each. That way combinations aren't going to be obviously better and so be the only ones used.

US_of_Alaska wrote:

~sciocont wrote:

Excellent work. I think educational media shouldn't necessarily decrease happiness, but I'm too nerdy to be a good judge of that.

I thought the same thing, but then i thought this: the decrease in happiness can represent the portion of the population who dislike this. And i was happy with it.

That makes a lot of sense. Generally, there will be groups of people who don't favor educational media for whatever reasons.

The Uteen wrote:

If you have a combination of anything, I think both aspects should be only partial. Eg. If you have educational and entertainment, it gets you half of each. That way combinations aren't going to be obviously better and so be the only ones used.

Actually, that's even better. Will add that to the final concept. So, since we're on that, i think i've got enough people agreeing to set this up as current concept here and on the wiki. Deal?

US_of_Alaska wrote:

The Uteen wrote:

If you have a combination of anything, I think both aspects should be only partial. Eg. If you have educational and entertainment, it gets you half of each. That way combinations aren't going to be obviously better and so be the only ones used.

Actually, that's even better. Will add that to the final concept. So, since we're on that, i think i've got enough people agreeing to set this up as current concept here and on the wiki. Deal?

Yup.
You haven't really got much competition, you came up with both concepts.

The Uteen wrote:

US_of_Alaska wrote:

The Uteen wrote:

If you have a combination of anything, I think both aspects should be only partial. Eg. If you have educational and entertainment, it gets you half of each. That way combinations aren't going to be obviously better and so be the only ones used.

Actually, that's even better. Will add that to the final concept. So, since we're on that, i think i've got enough people agreeing to set this up as current concept here and on the wiki. Deal?

Yup.
You haven't really got much competition, you came up with both concepts.

You've got it.

Approving far too late - but has anyone thought about Advertising? It would up production/consumption. Maybe not by loads.

Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote:

Approving far too late - but has anyone thought about Advertising? It would up production/consumption. Maybe not by loads.

Advertising = Propaganda.

Computer networks weren't much useful media sources until internet got on the scene, but that was because they didn't have much time to spread. However, slower progress on the computer field may allow wide closed networks to form (each city would probably have it's own). Internet would then work by connecting smaller networks instead of individual computers.

I can't find a single way how this would affect gameplay, though. Merging Computer Network and Internet circulations would probably be a good idea.

Commander Keen wrote:

Computer networks weren't much useful media sources until internet got on the scene, but that was because they didn't have much time to spread. However, slower progress on the computer field may allow wide closed networks to form (each city would probably have it's own). Internet would then work by connecting smaller networks instead of individual computers.

I can't find a single way how this would affect gameplay, though. Merging Computer Network and Internet circulations would probably be a good idea.

But it could take someone a long time to develop a decentralized network of computers. Computer network is run from one server, and would allow for public use computer pods to share media from town to town.

Decentralizing is a pretty logical idea once you set up any network. Natural phenomena or lack of resources could be bigger problems for wide networks, though.

US_of_Alaska wrote:

Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote:

Approving far too late - but has anyone thought about Advertising? It would up production/consumption. Maybe not by loads.

Advertising = Propaganda.

Of products, so it would be production. From what I read, Propaganda is focusing on the nation, not the economy. Am I missing something?

Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote:

US_of_Alaska wrote:

Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote:

Approving far too late - but has anyone thought about Advertising? It would up production/consumption. Maybe not by loads.

Advertising = Propaganda.

Of products, so it would be production. From what I read, Propaganda is focusing on the nation, not the economy. Am I missing something?

What? Propaganda can advertise corporations too. If that isn't advertising, what is?

The wiki now has a complete Economy Section article! Rejoice!

US_of_Alaska wrote:

What? Propaganda can advertise corporations too. If that isn't advertising, what is?

Fits, I guess, though I assumed propaganda was created by the nation/government... yeah, our definition might as well include advertizing.