NPC Auto-Evo Thread

GamerXA wrote:

Migration to another biome should occur on it's own if the species can survive in an adjacent biome to it's current habitat. And also if it is connected directly; or separated by another, small enough, biome (i.e. a few of a species crossing a small desert).

Migration can happen either when a population is too big to fit inside the biome (it has reached carrying capacity) or when their biome has become more difficult to live in than usual (it is pushed out because of lack of resources due to interspecial competition or simple bad luck).
We should establish a maximum biome separation for migration (in terrain tiles) once we have a game to work with.

Okay, so I just read through the rest of the pages of this topic, but I have a splitting headache and I woke up way earlier than I intended to... so correct me if I'm wrong here. Are we using a system of Lamarckian Genetics for the purposes of coding simplicity, then? I saw some talk of random mutations leading to evolution(which would suggest Darwinian), but it's been mixed in with replies by other people that more lean towards the "Oh, it needs this so it will evolve" line of though. To be honest, the end result usually winds up the same, although not with the methods I would prefer. I recall seeing something about a creature that swims getting better at swimming, and other such. So, before I continue this silly rant of mine, I'll wait on some clarification.

Zetal wrote:

Okay, so I just read through the rest of the pages of this topic, but I have a splitting headache and I woke up way earlier than I intended to... so correct me if I'm wrong here. Are we using a system of Lamarckian Genetics for the purposes of coding simplicity, then? I saw some talk of random mutations leading to evolution(which would suggest Darwinian), but it's been mixed in with replies by other people that more lean towards the "Oh, it needs this so it will evolve" line of though. To be honest, the end result usually winds up the same, although not with the methods I would prefer. I recall seeing something about a creature that swims getting better at swimming, and other such. So, before I continue this silly rant of mine, I'll wait on some clarification.

Mutations can happen as either a random mutation or a directed mutation. You see, by choosing a mutation that we know would be helpful, we simulate the actual natural selection of useful genes without actually naturally selecting it.

~sciocont wrote:

Zetal wrote:

Okay, so I just read through the rest of the pages of this topic, but I have a splitting headache and I woke up way earlier than I intended to... so correct me if I'm wrong here. Are we using a system of Lamarckian Genetics for the purposes of coding simplicity, then? I saw some talk of random mutations leading to evolution(which would suggest Darwinian), but it's been mixed in with replies by other people that more lean towards the "Oh, it needs this so it will evolve" line of though. To be honest, the end result usually winds up the same, although not with the methods I would prefer. I recall seeing something about a creature that swims getting better at swimming, and other such. So, before I continue this silly rant of mine, I'll wait on some clarification.

Mutations can happen as either a random mutation or a directed mutation. You see, by choosing a mutation that we know would be helpful, we simulate the actual natural selection of useful genes without actually naturally selecting it.

I vaguely recall seeing something along the lines of what I'm about to say, but... isn't that a bit idealistic to assume that there will always be a beneficial mutation available to the creature? Mutations are, after all, completely random in real life. I understand simulating it using Lamarckian genetics just for the purposes of simplicity, but if that's to be done, then I think it should be to generate random mutations, and then perform a check to see if any of them are useful. If not, the creature would either need to withstand another 'threatened' generation and hope for the best next time, or become extinct. Tis the way of things, no?

The problem is finding the perfect percentages, obviously....but on Earth, 99% of species that have ever existed are extinct. Doesn't that speak volumes? =)

It's not going to be difficult for a species to go extinct, There won't always be a beneficial muation, and even when there is one, the odds of them getting that mutation are about 50/50, and that's only if they are chosen to mutate, which in a diverse biome, is unlikely in the first place.

~sciocont wrote:

You see, by choosing a mutation that we know would be helpful, we simulate the actual natural selection of useful genes without actually naturally selecting it.

Oh. Alright, that sounds excellent then. =) I was just confused by the above quote, I guess.

Hey everyone, just saw this youtube vid. The concept is cool, but it probably can't be implemented in any way (that I can think of anyway)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ld-db5njUJY&feature=topics

Quite interesting.

~sciocont wrote:

Quite interesting.

Wasn't that what we're replicating with this system, or am I very very confused?

Zetal wrote:

~sciocont wrote:

Quite interesting.

Wasn't that what we're replicating with this system, or am I very very confused?

That was just a demonstration of mutation.

Yes it's just a demonstration of mutation, but what caught my attention was the use of multiple people to make the mutations happen. Possible player-to-player interaction game mechanic? That's what I don't know about.

GhengopelALPHA wrote:

Yes it's just a demonstration of mutation, but what caught my attention was the use of multiple people to make the mutations happen. Possible player-to-player interaction game mechanic? That's what I don't know about.

Ee will allow players to DL other players' species and techs, etc, but a player-to-player evolution chain is something we can't do because it would require us to get a lot of server space, which we can't do.

~sciocont wrote:

GhengopelALPHA wrote:

Yes it's just a demonstration of mutation, but what caught my attention was the use of multiple people to make the mutations happen. Possible player-to-player interaction game mechanic? That's what I don't know about.

Ee will allow players to DL other players' species and techs, etc, but a player-to-player evolution chain is something we can't do because it would require us to get a lot of server space, which we can't do.

What about the possibility of multiplayer through playerhosted servers? Ie- Thrive Team spends no money, but the code is there for enterprising players.

Zetal wrote:

~sciocont wrote:

GhengopelALPHA wrote:

Yes it's just a demonstration of mutation, but what caught my attention was the use of multiple people to make the mutations happen. Possible player-to-player interaction game mechanic? That's what I don't know about.

Ee will allow players to DL other players' species and techs, etc, but a player-to-player evolution chain is something we can't do because it would require us to get a lot of server space, which we can't do.

What about the possibility of multiplayer through playerhosted servers? Ie- Thrive Team spends no money, but the code is there for enterprising players.

It's possible, yes, but we can't do anything about it.

~sciocont wrote:

Zetal wrote:

~sciocont wrote:

GhengopelALPHA wrote:

Yes it's just a demonstration of mutation, but what caught my attention was the use of multiple people to make the mutations happen. Possible player-to-player interaction game mechanic? That's what I don't know about.

Ee will allow players to DL other players' species and techs, etc, but a player-to-player evolution chain is something we can't do because it would require us to get a lot of server space, which we can't do.

What about the possibility of multiplayer through playerhosted servers? Ie- Thrive Team spends no money, but the code is there for enterprising players.

It's possible, yes, but we can't do anything about it.

How do you figure? Network coding is difficulty, but it is a minor distraction to set up the structure of the code to be able to support that network coding as the program is made. I'm not a coder myself, but the game my friend and I are making has rubbed off on me. Network code would have to be included in order for player servers to be implemented... right?

we just have better things to do than set up networking ability just in case someone has a server for online play. also, we would need to program what online play would be like, which would mean coming up with the concept for it, which we won't do because we have more important things to do.

~sciocont wrote:

we just have better things to do than set up networking ability just in case someone has a server for online play. also, we would need to program what online play would be like, which would mean coming up with the concept for it, which we won't do because we have more important things to do.

Okay- if you insist. I know that I for one would assuredly set up a server as soon as possible based out of my main computer. Still, if I'm allowed to make any insistence ( ) then I would make mine that we do at least discuss this at some point. It doesn't have to be now, or even soon, but eventually and in a timely manner so as to assure it's usefulness.

My vote: No online play.

If we're good, someone will mod it in for us.

Let's make it that good.

No, let's do better than that.

Tenebrarum wrote:

My vote: No online play.

If we're good, someone will mod it in for us.

Let's make it that good.

No, let's do better than that.

QFT. And we haven't the funds to get a server capable of all that to begin with (Unless I missed the memo and there's suddenly a herd of free servers capable of containing all this stuff that I don't know about,) so online play in this release is kind of a moot point.

Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote:

Tenebrarum wrote:

My vote: No online play.

If we're good, someone will mod it in for us.

Let's make it that good.

No, let's do better than that.

QFT. And we haven't the funds to get a server capable of all that to begin with (Unless I missed the memo and there's suddenly a herd of free servers capable of containing all this stuff that I don't know about,) so online play in this release is kind of a moot point.

I'm a bit confused about why it seems so commonly assumed that the community itself would need some sort of core server. Including networking code in the game wouldn't necessitate the Thrive community to acquire any sort of public server- it's just opening the possibility for multiplayer to exist.
After some thought, however, I do agree that multiplayer should not be our focus... but I want to avoid a situation where modding multiplayer is difficult, if not impossible without rewriting the entirety of the engine. I don't know what the code looks like at this point, but constructing the game in a way that allows for the basic concept of multiplayer wouldn't require more time than is already being put in.

Zetal wrote:

Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote:

Tenebrarum wrote:

My vote: No online play.

If we're good, someone will mod it in for us.

Let's make it that good.

No, let's do better than that.

QFT. And we haven't the funds to get a server capable of all that to begin with (Unless I missed the memo and there's suddenly a herd of free servers capable of containing all this stuff that I don't know about,) so online play in this release is kind of a moot point.

I'm a bit confused about why it seems so commonly assumed that the community itself would need some sort of core server. Including networking code in the game wouldn't necessitate the Thrive community to acquire any sort of public server- it's just opening the possibility for multiplayer to exist.
After some thought, however, I do agree that multiplayer should not be our focus... but I want to avoid a situation where modding multiplayer is difficult, if not impossible without rewriting the entirety of the engine. I don't know what the code looks like at this point, but constructing the game in a way that allows for the basic concept of multiplayer wouldn't require more time than is already being put in.

QFT: No multiplayer so we can focus on more important stuff, but the capability for a modder to add it (and do the work of hosting a server) if they want. Sounds good.

Will auto-evo allow for adaptive radiation?

NickTheNick wrote:

Will auto-evo allow for adaptive radiation?

Yes, since a split is a possible mutation and no two species will be able to occupy the same niche.

Ahh I see. So then its possible to, for example, encounter an in game parallel of the galapagos island finches?

NickTheNick wrote:

Ahh I see. So then its possible to, for example, encounter an in game parallel of the galapagos island finches?

In theory, but since biomes will be a lot less complex, your chances of seeing many closely related species are low. One species would occupy most of the niches that the finches would fall into.