Circadian Tab/Editor

It seems to me that we have only a very limited way of expressing in the OE whether an Organism is Diurnal or Nocturnal.

As such I believe that a new Tab should be available in the OE or Behaviour Editor that allows the full customization of Sleeping Patterns. The Times/lLght-Level would be selected for when the Organism will Awaken, Be most Active and Start Sleeping. This could be set to any state, regardless of what an Organism's Physiology is. Detrimental effects would ensue if it was set at a point where the Brain of the Organism required a certain amount of sleep, but an unsatisfactory amount was set.

A GUI for this could be interpreted in the style of a circular slider with bars indicating the different variables. In the style of this.

GamerXA wrote:

It seems to me that we have only a very limited way of expressing in the OE whether an Organism is Diurnal or Nocturnal.

As such I believe that a new Tab should be available in the OE or Behaviour Editor that allows the full customization of Sleeping Patterns. The Times/lLght-Level would be selected for when the Organism will Awaken, Be most Active and Start Sleeping. This could be set to any state, regardless of what an Organism's Physiology is. Detrimental effects would ensue if it was set at a point where the Brain of the Organism required a certain amount of sleep, but an unsatisfactory amount was set.

A GUI for this could be interpreted in the style of a circular slider with bars indicating the different variables. In the style of .

I imagine that this would be included directly within the Behavior Editor, rather than the OE. That doesn't, however, mean that I don't like the circular slider idea. In fact, I really like this concept if we don't already have one in existence. In keeping with the other editors, the circular slider would be a 3d object, but viewed from a fixed camera. There would be lists of "parts" (FP's, Organs, etc.) in a similar manner to the other editors, but the parts would simply be 3d tags that are placed on different attachment points; with each attachment point representing a time. Really, I think this should be a fairly big part of the Behavior Editor if we don't already have a better concept in place.
Using this would provide players with a visualization of what their creatures would be doing from Sunrise to Sunset; possibly with the ability to add more circles based on seasonal changes. (ie, hibernation, cold weather migration, etc.)
The biggest problem with this idea that I see a similar problem that we have with FP's- there's just so many individual, unique parts (or, in this case, behaviors) to consider.
Just my opinions~ but if we decide to go with the circadian method, we should start making a list of needed variables.

Zetal wrote:

GamerXA wrote:

It seems to me that we have only a very limited way of expressing in the OE whether an Organism is Diurnal or Nocturnal.

As such I believe that a new Tab should be available in the OE or Behaviour Editor that allows the full customization of Sleeping Patterns. The Times/lLght-Level would be selected for when the Organism will Awaken, Be most Active and Start Sleeping. This could be set to any state, regardless of what an Organism's Physiology is. Detrimental effects would ensue if it was set at a point where the Brain of the Organism required a certain amount of sleep, but an unsatisfactory amount was set.

A GUI for this could be interpreted in the style of a circular slider with bars indicating the different variables. In the style of .

I imagine that this would be included directly within the Behavior Editor, rather than the OE. That doesn't, however, mean that I don't like the circular slider idea. In fact, I really like this concept if we don't already have one in existence. In keeping with the other editors, the circular slider would be a 3d object, but viewed from a fixed camera. There would be lists of "parts" (FP's, Organs, etc.) in a similar manner to the other editors, but the parts would simply be 3d tags that are placed on different attachment points; with each attachment point representing a time. Really, I think this should be a fairly big part of the Behavior Editor if we don't already have a better concept in place.
Using this would provide players with a visualization of what their creatures would be doing from Sunrise to Sunset; possibly with the ability to add more circles based on seasonal changes. (ie, hibernation, cold weather migration, etc.)
The biggest problem with this idea that I see a similar problem that we have with FP's- there's just so many individual, unique parts (or, in this case, behaviors) to consider.
Just my opinions~ but if we decide to go with the circadian method, we should start making a list of needed variables.

My original concept was of a much simpler scale, but I like your idea a lot more. As for the number of parts/tags, without further research into Sleep Cycles, the amount would most likely be determined by physiology. And how would the Seasonal Part be implemented?

On a side note, how would this work with planets that don't have a night, such as a tidally locked planet or a planet with two stars? Along with planets that don't have axial tilt and therefore no seasons?

GamerXA wrote:

My original concept was of a much simpler scale, but I like your idea a lot more. As for the number of parts/tags, without further research into Sleep Cycles, the amount would most likely be determined by physiology. And how would the Seasonal Part be implemented?

On a side note, how would this work with planets that don't have a night, such as a tidally locked planet or a planet with two stars? Along with planets that don't have axial tilt and therefore no seasons?

All of the data for attachments and such would need to be generated based upon planetary data, which means that I would need to better understand how planets will be coded and stored.
In the mean time, I really should go to sleep.
Ideas for later:
Attachment points generated based on hours a species behaviorally spends in the day/night.
Additional circles generated based upon how many seasons there are- Spring is the first one selected by default, and all others are automatically modified to be identical unless individually edited.

thid definitely belongs as part of the OE's Behavior Tab. I shall move the thread. But first, I will put in my two cents.
This is important, and I am glad it's being discussed. I think we can use a circular dial to determine all of this, with the levels of light on the outside, and a movable dial in the middle for wakefulness. We could put different points on the dial as the points at which the animal should be at rest. We can also use different sleep settings, such as sleeping only portions of the brain at a time, in the same way birds and dolphins do.

~sciocont wrote:

thid definitely belongs as part of the OE's Behavior Tab. I shall move the thread. But first, I will put in my two cents.
This is important, and I am glad it's being discussed. I think we can use a circular dial to determine all of this, with the levels of light on the outside, and a movable dial in the middle for wakefulness. We could put different points on the dial as the points at which the animal should be at rest. We can also use different sleep settings, such as sleeping only portions of the brain at a time, in the same way birds and dolphins do.

Based on the phrasing, it sounds similar to my idea, but slightly different... only I'm not sure how. xD Maybe I'm just groggy? But...for clarity, are you agreeing or disagreeing with the concepts I proposed?
(Also, I'm not sure if you actually moved this yet )

Zetal wrote:

~sciocont wrote:

thid definitely belongs as part of the OE's Behavior Tab. I shall move the thread. But first, I will put in my two cents.
This is important, and I am glad it's being discussed. I think we can use a circular dial to determine all of this, with the levels of light on the outside, and a movable dial in the middle for wakefulness. We could put different points on the dial as the points at which the animal should be at rest. We can also use different sleep settings, such as sleeping only portions of the brain at a time, in the same way birds and dolphins do.

Based on the phrasing, it sounds similar to my idea, but slightly different... only I'm not sure how. xD Maybe I'm just groggy? But...for clarity, are you agreeing or disagreeing with the concepts I proposed?
(Also, I'm not sure if you actually moved this yet )

I agree with your proposition, I just didn't quite catch it the first time around.

~sciocont wrote:

Zetal wrote:

~sciocont wrote:

thid definitely belongs as part of the OE's Behavior Tab. I shall move the thread. But first, I will put in my two cents.
This is important, and I am glad it's being discussed. I think we can use a circular dial to determine all of this, with the levels of light on the outside, and a movable dial in the middle for wakefulness. We could put different points on the dial as the points at which the animal should be at rest. We can also use different sleep settings, such as sleeping only portions of the brain at a time, in the same way birds and dolphins do.

Based on the phrasing, it sounds similar to my idea, but slightly different... only I'm not sure how. xD Maybe I'm just groggy? But...for clarity, are you agreeing or disagreeing with the concepts I proposed?
(Also, I'm not sure if you actually moved this yet )

I agree with your proposition, I just didn't quite catch it the first time around.

Okay. =) I'm glad you like it! Is this settled, then?

Seems like this is settled for now. I rather like Scio's idea. It appears to be very intuitive and simple, yet also effective. I say we leave this open for future discussion should there be any better ideas or issues brought up.

Poisson wrote:

Seems like this is settled for now. I rather like Scio's idea. It appears to be very intuitive and simple, yet also effective. I say we leave this open for future discussion should there be any better ideas or issues brought up.

Sounds good.

Quick thought: perhaps we could repeat the same system for monthly/yearly behaviors? Although yearly behaviors seem more focused on temperature changes than light intensity.

Tenebrarum wrote:

Quick thought: perhaps we could repeat the same system for monthly/yearly behaviors? Although yearly behaviors seem more focused on temperature changes than light intensity.

I'm not opposed to including functionality for multiple 'wheels' for each Month. They shouldn't be required, however. If a player doesn't click the 'Add More' button or something, the game should set those months to be duplicates of the existing ones.

Zetal wrote:

Tenebrarum wrote:

Quick thought: perhaps we could repeat the same system for monthly/yearly behaviors? Although yearly behaviors seem more focused on temperature changes than light intensity.

I'm not opposed to including functionality for multiple 'wheels' for each Month. They shouldn't be required, however. If a player doesn't click the 'Add More' button or something, the game should set those months to be duplicates of the existing ones.

By months, I mean noticeable cycles in stellar bodies aside from the sun. Earth months are more to do with human perception than reality, so in game you wouldn't be able to add any until you have progressed to a point beyond which you wouldn't be able to directly access the OE anyways.

Tenebrarum wrote:

Zetal wrote:

Tenebrarum wrote:

Quick thought: perhaps we could repeat the same system for monthly/yearly behaviors? Although yearly behaviors seem more focused on temperature changes than light intensity.

I'm not opposed to including functionality for multiple 'wheels' for each Month. They shouldn't be required, however. If a player doesn't click the 'Add More' button or something, the game should set those months to be duplicates of the existing ones.

By months, I mean noticeable cycles in stellar bodies aside from the sun. Earth months are more to do with human perception than reality, so in game you wouldn't be able to add any until you have progressed to a point beyond which you wouldn't be able to directly access the OE anyways.

Actually, most circadian systems respond to light and not heat, which is why migrations always happen at the same time, since day length is something that has little chaos, whereas temperature is highly chaotic.
We should split that up by seasons instead of months.

Wait. Are you saying you will EVER lose access to the OE?

Deathbite42 wrote:

Wait. Are you saying you will EVER lose access to the OE?

You'll lose access to it when you gain access to the TE.

Why? Couldn't we, humans, with the TE, hypothetically, evolve into something else with simple biotech upon ourselves? "It's too advanced! There's a clear gap between our creature and humans!" No, simple, primitive creatures continue to evolve regardless of technology.

Deathbite42 wrote:

Why? Couldn't we, humans, with the TE, hypothetically, evolve into something else with simple biotech upon ourselves? "It's too advanced! There's a clear gap between our creature and humans!" No, simple, primitive creatures continue to evolve regardless of technology.

You can unlock the OE again with sufficient research. All evolution slows down dramatically when you gain technology, because the time scale of the game slows down.

Oh. I see.