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 Invasion (positive or negative) alien

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Doggit
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PostSubject: Invasion (positive or negative) alien   Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:12 pm

I do not think we have already talked about an alien invasion during the earlier stages in the phase space.

In the game it should be possible an alien invasion, at any time on any stage, positive or negative towards us.

But what are the chances of this invasion?

If an invasion, negative during the civilization you might have a fight similar to that proposed by the film (like the War of the Worlds), while an invasion, such as positive in the Tribal stage may be similar to the theory of ancient astronauts.

In the case of negative invasion, the aliens might face in only one phase of civilization evolved enough (with the invention of atomic bombs for example), while a negative invasion in earlier stages would be impossible.

What do you think?

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PostSubject: Re: Invasion (positive or negative) alien   Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:54 pm

I think for alien invasion before you get to space should be a 5% chance.
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PostSubject: Re: Invasion (positive or negative) alien   Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:51 pm

5%? That doesent make any sense. 5% every when? Every planet's year? Every game tick? Every save?

Anyway, when do we define a civilization is a space civilization? When it first gets things to space, like satelites? When it gets its first member to space? When it first colonizes another planet? When it gets out of its solar system?

I like the idea from doggit of benign aliens when the player is not tecnologically evolved, and some chance, probably very slim of an attempt of conquer once it gets enough tecnology to defend itself.
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PostSubject: Re: Invasion (positive or negative) alien   Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:59 pm

5%? That doesent make any sense. 5% every when? Every planet's year? Every game tick? Every save?

Sorry,every planet's year after satellites and tech like that hane been sent into space.Also mabey it happens only one or two times per game before space phase.
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PostSubject: Re: Invasion (positive or negative) alien   Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:41 pm

Theoretically our space age began from the moment it was launched Sputnik in the late 50. So I guess it could begin the phase space. Nevertheless I believe that the phase space has the sub such as an initial phase space (like us humans now)

You might consider that until the civilization stage an alien invasion has a lower percentage, while the civilization stage (with the inadvertent radio waves in space) this percentage increases.

It can also double if, during the civilization, are sent into space signal to indicate its position to other civilization alien (sort of SETI program)

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PostSubject: Re: Invasion (positive or negative) alien   Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:21 pm

There should be a 5% chance of alien contact every few years in-game. And as doggit said, the chances should increase if a signal is sent to space. The chances should increase depending on the strength of communications of the civilization. And the highest percentage should be around 45%? And speaking of percentages, the aliens should either be friendly or hostile, one or the other, there should be a 50% chance of either.

5%-45% of alien contact before space stage.
50% chance of friendly or hostile.

Space stage should begin once shuttles are launched from the planet. And space stage should have a few parts.
Early Space - Shuttles, exploration of solar system, satelites.
Space - Transports, Colonies, Large Space Stations, Advanced Satelites, Exploration of another solar system
Advanced Space - War Vessels, Exploration of Galaxy, Lightspeed travel, Alien civilizations
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PostSubject: Re: Invasion (positive or negative) alien   Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:02 pm

GmansWatching wrote:
There should be a 5% chance of alien contact every few years in-game. And as doggit said, the chances should increase if a signal is sent to space. The chances should increase depending on the strength of communications of the civilization. And the highest percentage should be around 45%? And speaking of percentages, the aliens should either be friendly or hostile, one or the other, there should be a 50% chance of either.

5%-45% of alien contact before space stage.
50% chance of friendly or hostile.

Space stage should begin once shuttles are launched from the planet. And space stage should have a few parts.
Early Space - Shuttles, exploration of solar system, satelites.
Space - Transports, Colonies, Large Space Stations, Advanced Satelites, Exploration of another solar system
Advanced Space - War Vessels, Exploration of Galaxy, Lightspeed travel, Alien civilizations

Yea that sounds perfect.
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PostSubject: Re: Invasion (positive or negative) alien   Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:31 pm

UltraMarine wrote:
GmansWatching wrote:
There should be a 5% chance of alien contact every few years in-game. And as doggit said, the chances should increase if a signal is sent to space. The chances should increase depending on the strength of communications of the civilization. And the highest percentage should be around 45%? And speaking of percentages, the aliens should either be friendly or hostile, one or the other, there should be a 50% chance of either.

5%-45% of alien contact before space stage.
50% chance of friendly or hostile.

Space stage should begin once shuttles are launched from the planet. And space stage should have a few parts.
Early Space - Shuttles, exploration of solar system, satelites.
Space - Transports, Colonies, Large Space Stations, Advanced Satelites, Exploration of another solar system
Advanced Space - War Vessels, Exploration of Galaxy, Lightspeed travel, Alien civilizations

Yea that sounds perfect.
QFT agreed on it, but how would they react?, i mean, what if they're conquerors? woult it count as game over?, would we keep as slaves?, in case of being friendly, would we get "uplifted"?
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PostSubject: Re: Invasion (positive or negative) alien   Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:15 pm

If they were conquerors and you were still in civilization stage, then it would be like War of the Worlds/Independence Day, there wouldnt be that many alien vessels. But enough that your civilization would face massive damage and need all the military forces on the planet to face them. And something I remember from somewhere, technology increases quicker during wars. And with the alien invasion, the other nations on the planet would be willing to work together so technology would go up faster, giving you stronger weapons and everything, or you could steal alien tech.... Im babbling. And if you happened to end up losing against them, well, hopefully citizens had decided to hide underground, you can have underground civilizations!!!

Alien Conquerors - (If you win/survive) - Increased Tech (planetwide), Planetary Unification, Alien (Advanced) Tech
- (Now the rest is if you lose against the aliens) Underground Civilizations, Enslavement by Alien Race, New Home Planet(You manage to get people onto a colony ship and escape), Genocide (Game Over, start from cell and go up to Civilization stage again. BUT, the alien civilization is dead and the have remnants on that planet. Granting faster tech and all that), Puppet Planet (Aliens leave you to how you are, but they rule you and require you to be a part of their kind. Assimilation, taking of educated peoples, revolutions....)
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PostSubject: Re: Invasion (positive or negative) alien   Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:37 am

GmansWatching wrote:
If they were conquerors and you were still in civilization stage, then it would be like War of the Worlds/Independence Day, there wouldnt be that many alien vessels. But enough that your civilization would face massive damage and need all the military forces on the planet to face them. And something I remember from somewhere, technology increases quicker during wars. And with the alien invasion, the other nations on the planet would be willing to work together so technology would go up faster, giving you stronger weapons and everything, or you could steal alien tech.... Im babbling. And if you happened to end up losing against them, well, hopefully citizens had decided to hide underground, you can have underground civilizations!!!

Alien Conquerors - (If you win/survive) - Increased Tech (planetwide), Planetary Unification, Alien (Advanced) Tech
- (Now the rest is if you lose against the aliens) Underground Civilizations, Enslavement by Alien Race, New Home Planet(You manage to get people onto a colony ship and escape), Genocide (Game Over, start from cell and go up to Civilization stage again. BUT, the alien civilization is dead and the have remnants on that planet. Granting faster tech and all that), Puppet Planet (Aliens leave you to how you are, but they rule you and require you to be a part of their kind. Assimilation, taking of educated peoples, revolutions....)

I realy like the possible causes of an alien invasion ..is beautiful the idea of a hypothetical resistance despite the official defeat of the various armies of the world.
A ambience style like Resistance or Falling Skies, but realistically speaking, there would be little chance.
If during advanced civilization stage (I think there must be several sub-steps of civilization, also for this stage) I think you have a chance of 20% to win, a hypothetical resistances would have a chance of 1% -2%.

Anyhow we should study the relationship between years and percentage

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PostSubject: Re: Invasion (positive or negative) alien   Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:16 am

If we are speaking about every year, that percentages are ridicoulsly big. A five percent would mean we should have contacted with aliens about 2 times by now.

About deciding if they are friendly or not, what about this? Once the game decides an alien contact should happen, it chooses a tech at random from the post-space techs that the visiting civilization has. If the visited civilization has that tech, then it is hostile. If not, then it is friendly. That would mean that all contact before space is friendly, as just saying to the user "Game over, there was nothing you could have done" is just bad. Once the civilization gets to space, it has a low chance of visitors being aggressive. And finally, once it is advanced enough, nearly al visitors are aggressive, as they fear such an advanced civilization conquering them.
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PostSubject: Re: Invasion (positive or negative) alien   Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:11 am

Daniferrito wrote:
If we are speaking about every year, that percentages are ridicoulsly big. A five percent would mean we should have contacted with aliens about 2 times by now.

About deciding if they are friendly or not, what about this? Once the game decides an alien contact should happen, it chooses a tech at random from the post-space techs that the visiting civilization has. If the visited civilization has that tech, then it is hostile. If not, then it is friendly. That would mean that all contact before space is friendly, as just saying to the user "Game over, there was nothing you could have done" is just bad. Once the civilization gets to space, it has a low chance of visitors being aggressive. And finally, once it is advanced enough, nearly al visitors are aggressive, as they fear such an advanced civilization conquering them.

it is obvious that a certain percentage of x does not cover every single year, if not even if it was only 0.50%, there would be many invasions in the period between stage creature-tribe and civilization (where can spend thousands or millions of years).

The percentage should remain type of 5% for each game that starts with the possibility that these invasions occur at any time of any phase of the game.

My idea is to keep this percentage for creatures from the stage to the lower stage of civilization about 1.5% -2%, but with the advent of a civilization medium industrialization (with the inadvertent radio waves in space) also increase the percentage 4% -5%.

The advent of a civilization of high industrialization could lead this percentage even at 5% -6%, but if you had as a goal, during civilization, to send messages into space in order to receive a response from a civilization extraterrestrial, the percentage may even get to 9% -10%.

You could also just receive messages from distant civilizations that have, too, even to the stage of civilization.

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PostSubject: Re: Invasion (positive or negative) alien   Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:43 am

The problem with that idea is that we dont know how much a stage will last until it is too late. Someone speedrunning through the game could go through a phase in really short time, while someone that wants to stay at creature stage could stay at that stage forever. Without knowing how long every phase is, we cant apply chances to it.
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PostSubject: Re: Invasion (positive or negative) alien   Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:50 am

Daniferrito wrote:
The problem with that idea is that we dont know how much a stage will last until it is too late. Someone speedrunning through the game could go through a phase in really short time, while someone that wants to stay at creature stage could stay at that stage forever. Without knowing how long every phase is, we cant apply chances to it.

If a person wants to stay in phase creatures will always be the possibility of 1.5% -2% .. As soon as one enters the nexts stages the chances increase.

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PostSubject: Re: Invasion (positive or negative) alien   Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:28 am

You didnt get my point. If someone advances through a phase in, lets say, 1 hour, then the possible visit should happen in that hour. If some other person spends 30 hours in that same phase, then the visit should occur from hour 0 to hour 30. The problem comes, once we have decided that a visit will happen, when will we place that visit?

The best approach is again to have a chance every fixed ammount of time (like a tick or a year) that a visit will happen. That way, we dont have the problem i explained above.
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PostSubject: Re: Invasion (positive or negative) alien   Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:01 am

Daniferrito wrote:
You didnt get my point. If someone advances through a phase in, lets say, 1 hour, then the possible visit should happen in that hour. If some other person spends 30 hours in that same phase, then the visit should occur from hour 0 to hour 30. The problem comes, once we have decided that a visit will happen, when will we place that visit?

The best approach is again to have a chance every fixed ammount of time (like a tick or a year) that a visit will happen. That way, we dont have the problem i explained above.

Yes. could be a good solution

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PostSubject: Re: Invasion (positive or negative) alien   Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:12 pm

[quote="Doggit"]
Daniferrito wrote:
My idea is to keep this percentage for creatures from the stage to the lower stage of civilization about 1.5% -2%, but with the advent of a civilization medium industrialization (with the inadvertent radio waves in space) also increase the percentage 4% -5%.

The advent of a civilization of high industrialization could lead this percentage even at 5% -6%, but if you had as a goal, during civilization, to send messages into space in order to receive a response from a civilization extraterrestrial, the percentage may even get to 9% -10%.

You could also just receive messages from distant civilizations that have, too, even to the stage of civilization.

I think something like this would be best, although we should not measure time in days or years, because planets with shorter days or years would then have a higher invasion rate. A fixed amount of real playing time would be better.

I would estimate organism mode will be around 10 hours of playing time, assuming the player aims to reach sapience and has reasonable experience. That's 600 minutes. If we wanted a 1/30 chance of aliens visiting in this mode (pretty high, I know), that would roughly be a 0.03% chance of an encounter every real-life minute.

Also, to get it out of the way - shall we just say there is no chance of an alien invasion while playing as a cell (at least until the main game is finished)?
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PostSubject: Re: Invasion (positive or negative) alien   Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:24 pm

It is probably best not to allow an alien invasion during microbial and multicellular because theoretically the phase in the history of the game can pass millions or billions of years.

A possible future invasion is best done from the Creature stage.

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PostSubject: Re: Invasion (positive or negative) alien   Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:29 pm

Creature = (Late) Multicellular.

Also:
Early Multicellular = Colonial, and alien invasion shouldn't happen in this part of the game, either.



Other creatures can form civilisations and domesticate species while the player is a creature, so alien invasion is hardly different in terms of the possible gameplay change.
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PostSubject: Re: Invasion (positive or negative) alien   Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:36 pm

The Uteen wrote:
Creature = (Late) Multicellular.

Also:
Early Multicellular = Colonial, and alien invasion shouldn't happen in this part of the game, either.



Other creatures can form civilisations and domesticate species while the player is a creature, so alien invasion is hardly different in terms of the possible gameplay change.

Sorry I did not understand what you mean

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PostSubject: Re: Invasion (positive or negative) alien   Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:08 pm

Alright how about.

No alien contact possible 0% during Microbe or MultiCellular.
Alien contact possible 1%-3% Aware, Awakening
Alien contact possible 4%-15% Society, Industrial
Alien contact possible 16%-80% Space. But by this point, alien contact can be hunted down or found, as it will be. Or could be prevented through some kind of tech I suppose.

And the game should count each "tick" for the alien encounter percentage through every game year depending on the stage.

Microbe, Multicellular - Never
Aware, Awakening - Every 10,000 Game Years (As you're still evolving rapidly, and evolution takes alot of time.)
Society, Industrial - 100 Game Years (or 1,000?)
Space - 100 Game Years (10-100 Somewhere in between.... Or, you know. 100)
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PostSubject: Re: Invasion (positive or negative) alien   Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:16 pm

Yes, there is but I think the values ​​are a little high.
I would say so (correct me if I want to)

Alien contact possible 1% -3% Aware Awakening

Alien contact possible 1% -3% Society

Alien contact Industrial possible 5% -6% (The percentage rises to 5% -6% from the moment you discover the technology of radio waves)

Alien contact possible 9% -10% Industrial - From the moment sending messages precise in the cosmos with the aim to receive a signal of life alien. ( like film BattleShip )

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PostSubject: Re: Invasion (positive or negative) alien   Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:22 pm

How long is a tick?
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PostSubject: Re: Invasion (positive or negative) alien   Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:29 pm

As uteen said a few posts over yours, in-game years are not very reliable, as they are not always the same length. Some real-time measurements should be taken. something like game ticks or real-life minutes.

Edit: Oops, 2 new posts as i was writing mine. A game tick, as i define it, would be every time the game enters its main loop. That is, every time it does all the calculations. In minecraft, for example, that is every 1/20 seconds. Entities (creatures, planets, anything) only move when this loop runs.
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PostSubject: Re: Invasion (positive or negative) alien   Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:36 pm

@Daniferrito, I was attempting to relate it to the real world as best as possible. By terms of evolution and tech. And real life minutes would be... eh, since everyone plays at a different pace.

@Doggit, Hmmm, those seem a bit low :/ There should be a setting that you could adjust that makes the chances high or low. Yours sound more realistic though so theres that

@The Uteen, As I said "And the game should count each "tick" for the alien encounter percentage through every game year depending on the stage.

Microbe, Multicellular - Never
Aware, Awakening - Every 10,000 Game Years (As you're still evolving rapidly, and evolution takes alot of time.)
Society, Industrial - 100 Game Years (or 1,000?)
Space - 100 Game Years (10-100 Somewhere in between.... Or, you know. 100)"
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