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So no reproductive scenes then?

But... That wouldn't be right...
Reproduction is a part of nature, so reproductive scenes are a must.
-Waap.

Who's going to animate them? I will NOT have anything to do with that, and I don't care. I only care about the evolutionary part.

Yes that's part of nature, but it's still a game.

Have you read the above posts?

roadkillguy wrote:

A method would entail mixing of DNA, which, if we want to follow the 'true-darwinian path', would have to be hard-coded. I could see one function taking into account the number of donors and each of their DNA strings, but that's about it.

It wouldn't have to be hard coded. it evolved in real life, so it will most likely evolve in game. One of the key organ systems in the OE is "reproductive". Reproduction depends entirely on how that system is set up, so hard coding of anything specific would be unnecessary, because the proceess would evolve through that organ system+ behavior editor (again, auto-evo will be in there as well).

roadkillguy wrote:

Who's going to animate them? I will NOT have anything to do with that, and I don't care. I only care about the evolutionary part.

Yes that's part of nature, but it's still a game.

Have you read the above posts?

So you will not program in a sea-sponge like organism growing a bud, or a tree having a flower with pollen, or an amoeba splitting.


REPRODUCTION =/= VERTEBRAE SEX!!

Unless we write a high end atomic simulator, it WILL have to be hardcoded. Pollenation will be, whether underwater or not, entirely different from fish eggs + sperm. They will simply have to be programmed differently.

If not, somebody come up with* a universal method.

* By this I mean give specifics. Functions, classes, x, y, z, transforms, and, most definitely, a way to evolve said method onto land.

Well I don't mind animating it since nobody is willing to (although I'l have to learn first, but I've got time to waste).

Why the **** would people be disturbed by seeing two animals mating? I just don't get it. And yes I did read the above posts. And since we want it realistic, we might as well put in one of the most importnt facts of life.

No one is willing to animate? Thats the easiest part of 3D making imo.

Darkov wrote:

No one is willing to animate? Thats the easiest part of 3D making imo.

No one is willing to animate organisme humping each other.

Albalrogue wrote:

No one is willing to animate organisme humping each other.

No one is willing to program procedural animating of organisms humping each other.

Just leave this topic be for now, then. I'll clarify the OE organs section soon.

I believe you are forgetting that it's still a game. It doesn't have to be 100% realistic, It have to be fun, and if it's possible, then also educational.

I strongly agree that I would rather not watch a big green alien, humping a smaller purple one.
I believe we can all agree that too much of everything get's you tired of that single thing. If you have to watch some mating animation every time you want to evolve, or reproduce it'll get boring really fast, and you'll want to skip it anyways.

In my opinion, we could make a "mating screen" (just like a censor screen).
Let's say you control your creature, towards a creature of the opposite sex, and then choose the action "evolve" or "mate". Then it fades into a screen with a text, saying something like:
"As the many years go by, the [creature name]'s mate, and slowly evolves.." (and then you move on, with an option to skip the screen)

Or if you are a plant or something:
"The pollen from the [plant name] gets carried through the sky (or however it gets transported) for many years, and slowly evolves.."

Some animals does clone themselves and etc. So each breeding option should have their own text.

That solution will save us lots of time, both from animating, and from finding someone willing to animate.
And it could save us brainpower, trying to solve this problem.

What comes to blood then I believe that the solution mentioned before about just making blood particles and textures to land on the ground should be sufficient. At least in the first place, then it can always be updated later
Of course, this is just my opinion

Xenon wrote:

...then choose the action "evolve" or "mate"...

Um... as far as I know, I think we're not going to have this option, or at least it's widely agreed on. Yes, sadly you're going to have to live through every generation.. I think. The whole "evolve" thing was an interesting idea to start but it's just not fitting for the game, and it's pretty much what Spore did, basically. Whenever you danced mated with another creature you evolved into whatever you made in the editor. I think it was stated editors would be a God Tool, basically something you can use after you've "completed" the game by researching and unlocking Ascension, where you basically become an invisible, all-powerful god and in turn God tools are available. I think the 'evolve' button might be a good God Tool.

Darkov wrote:

No one is willing to animate? Thats the easiest part of 3D making imo.

Because one of the >9000 different ways organisms mate is similar enough to the human way people want to not include any reproduction whatsoever.

Xenon wrote:

I believe you are forgetting that it's still a game. It doesn't have to be 100% realistic, It have to be fun, and if it's possible, then also educational.

I strongly agree that I would rather not watch a big green alien, humping a smaller purple one.
I believe we can all agree that too much of everything get's you tired of that single thing. If you have to watch some mating animation every time you want to evolve, or reproduce it'll get boring really fast, and you'll want to skip it anyways.

In my opinion, we could make a "mating screen" (just like a censor screen).
Let's say you control your creature, towards a creature of the opposite sex, and then choose the action "evolve" or "mate". Then it fades into a screen with a text, saying something like:
"As the many years go by, the [creature name]'s mate, and slowly evolves.." (and then you move on, with an option to skip the screen)

Or if you are a plant or something:
"The pollen from the [plant name] gets carried through the sky (or however it gets transported) for many years, and slowly evolves.."

Some animals does clone themselves and etc. So each breeding option should have their own text.

That solution will save us lots of time, both from animating, and from finding someone willing to animate.
And it could save us brainpower, trying to solve this problem.

What comes to blood then I believe that the solution mentioned before about just making blood particles and textures to land on the ground should be sufficient. At least in the first place, then it can always be updated later
Of course, this is just my opinion

The problem is, that's not how we're doing it. Just as in nature, there is no choice over evolution. It will happen whether you want it or not. What people don't deem to understand here is that we basically have two options we can either
A: let mating go on in any way that it evolves on a planet
B: acknowledge a certain type of mating that we would consider "obscene" and purposefully code around it.

See, with the organs system, you could have genetic information transfered in a number of ways. It could be

-expelled as a solid/liquid for pickup later
-spread by a pollen-like substance
-spread by spores
-spread by physical contact with a certian organ
-spread by any physical contact (probably wouldn't happen, but might)
-expelled onto an organ without contact
-internally self-fertilizing

or just about any combination of those. Basically, we would have a hard code for each of those. However, the proces we are concerned with (spread by physical contact with a certian organ) would not be obscene to code at all. All it means is that to reproduce, organ A would have to make contact with organ B. That's simply all.

Let's all be mature about this topic, please, we have done well so far, but by nature it could become offensive quickly.

~sciocont wrote:

-spread by physical contact with a certian organ
-spread by any physical contact (probably wouldn't happen, but might)
-expelled onto an organ without contact
-internally self-fertilizing

or just about any combination of those. Basically, we would have a hard code for each of those. However, the proces we are concerned with (spread by physical contact with a certian organ) would not be obscene to code at all. All it means is that to reproduce, organ A would have to make contact with organ B. That's simply all.

Let's all be mature about this topic, please, we have done well so far, but by nature it could become offensive quickly.

Exactly. There are other ways in which they could mate, so many that censoring one single way almost seems ridiculous.

Ohh I misunderstood the idea then, sorry about that.

But well, we could still do the "mating screen" at any mating process, although the animated process will make it look way better.

I don't think we have to duplicate the exact way that Human mate though (With physical contact with certain organ). After all, it is another galaxy, in another solar system. Another world. Who knows, if that mating way would never have been developed there? No one knows, and that make's it an opportunity to leave that way out.

I hope I understood it this time

Xenon wrote:

Ohh I misunderstood the idea then, sorry about that.

But well, we could still do the "mating screen" at any mating process, although the animated process will make it look way better.

I don't think we have to duplicate the exact way that Human mate though (With physical contact with certain organ). After all, it is another galaxy, in another solar system. Another world. Who knows, if that mating way would never have been developed there? No one knows, and that make's it an opportunity to leave that way out.

I hope I understood it this time

Basically, we leave the decision on how to transfer genetic information up to the player and the engine.

Basically with most of the ways that we know of that reproduction works is simply that the sperm has to get to the ovum in some way. That would be easy enough in the BE to achieve.

GamerXA wrote:

Basically with most of the ways that we know of that reproduction works is simply that the sperm has to get to the ovum in some way. That would be easy enough in the BE to achieve.

QFT

Topic resolved?

GamerXA wrote:

Basically with most of the ways that we know of that reproduction works is simply that the sperm has to get to the ovum in some way. That would be easy enough in the BE to achieve.

You mean sexual reproduction. There are other methods, such as budding, and splitting, and there may be other ones that are not on earth! We cannot think so earth-centered.

DragonEye4 wrote:

You mean sexual reproduction. There are other methods, such as budding, and splitting, and there may be other ones that are not on earth! We cannot think so earth-centered.

We cannot think so Earth-centered? Excuse me, but I'm a human from Earth and I never met any alien life-forms. How could I know how exactly could aliens reproduce? It's very hard find new original (not just a copy or mix of Earth's) methods for anything, let alone reproduction.

You say there may be other ones that don't exist on Earth. Feel free to give us an example.

Commander Keen wrote:

DragonEye4 wrote:

You mean sexual reproduction. There are other methods, such as budding, and splitting, and there may be other ones that are not on earth! We cannot think so earth-centered.

We cannot think so Earth-centered? Excuse me, but I'm a human from Earth and I never met any alien life-forms. How could I know how exactly could aliens reproduce? It's very hard find new original (not just a copy or mix of Earth's) methods for anything, let alone reproduction.

You say there may be other ones that don't exist on Earth. Feel free to give us an example.

If you guys read the updated OE concept on organs, you may understand this better. Basically, you have many different modes of transmission, which can be mixed and matched as your creature evolves.

~sciocont wrote:

If you guys read the updated OE concept on organs, you may understand this better. Basically, you have many different modes of transmission, which can be mixed and matched as your creature evolves.

I have already seen it, I am just trying to show that designing an "original alien", not inspired in any way by Earth life, is near to impossible.

though we are trying to make something alien we need to look to a basis that work, or else why wont we just make the possibility for silicon based lifeforms (actually, that'd be awesome ). that does not mean we don't need to think outside the box and imagine other scenarios like hive minded sapient species, but we got to keep a basis in mind or else we are just trying to get to the speed of light