Ambient Sounds

So, I've been thinking about ambient sounds lately, and have realized we have a few choices to make. I see three options.

1. We use Earth ambients.

2. We make our own. (?)

3. We have the system take a certain area of the planet, and go through the noises different creatures/TOs will make, after record for a certain period, it saves a new soundfile which is added to your system save file. This is done multiple times through the day and year to help catch any discrepencies.

Any thoughts?

I'll go for n°3. This is the best option for making the game at the same time original and yet quite realistic according to the ecosystem. However, wouldn't the soundtracks take up a lot of space?

The third option definitely seems to be the best choice, however if we do it incorrectly (hopefully not) it might sound horrible.

maybe there could be a system where there is a looping sequence of sounds playing, not a sound track, and once a sound piece is hit, it plays the sound of whatever is described in the sound sequence. its hard to describe my idea....

instead of recording a large sound file, it does this

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------(bird chirpy noises)-----------(growl)-------------------(whoosh of air)--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

at each piece, it plays a sound as described

How about each object has sounds that are associated with it, and these are played up to a certain distance, getting quieter the further out they are listened to. Certain things like wind would have a very large area where they are heard though in this case it would be quiet, while things like footsteps are very quiet unless a creature is absolutly huge or the player is very close.

I don't think 3. would work. Your harddisk would get clogged by lot's of ambient sound files, and they would not loop.

The ambiance files could be made to loop if we kept track of one sound file that starts and ends halfway through the middle, or maybe just enough silence could be kept at the start and end to facilitate a loop. I also think that the ambiance files would just replace each other as the dominant one of that save file.

Could I ask why we need ambient sounds? Everything simulated around you will make noise, you don't need more recorded noises.

And I repeat this statement again: No noise in creature stage please, you need sound for what your creature hears! By adding ambient sounds in you could hear a predator, get in a huge panic, and there is no predator for miles!

I'm beginning to wonder why I keep saying that... No-one listens.

The Uteen wrote:

Could I ask why we need ambient sounds? Everything simulated around you will make noise, you don't need more recorded noises.

You think we are going to dynamically simulate how wind or water makes sound? What about very small animals you don't even see (Earth example - crickets)?

The Uteen wrote:

And I repeat this statement again: No noise in creature stage please, you need sound for what your creature hears! By adding ambient sounds in you could hear a predator, get in a huge panic, and there is no predator for miles!

The problem is that nature has alot of ambience. If you don't hear anything, it means that huge danger is near.

The Uteen wrote:

I'm beginning to wonder why I keep saying that... No-one listens.

This is the first time I see you posting this.

Commander Keen wrote:

The Uteen wrote:

Could I ask why we need ambient sounds? Everything simulated around you will make noise, you don't need more recorded noises.

You think we are going to dynamically simulate how wind or water makes sound? What about very small animals you don't even see (Earth example - crickets)?

The Uteen wrote:

And I repeat this statement again: No noise in creature stage please, you need sound for what your creature hears! By adding ambient sounds in you could hear a predator, get in a huge panic, and there is no predator for miles!

The problem is that nature has alot of ambience. If you don't hear anything, it means that huge danger is near.

The Uteen wrote:

I'm beginning to wonder why I keep saying that... No-one listens.

This is the first time I see you posting this.

Well I'll have to agree with Uteen here.

1) Smal creatures that we won't see can be seen if we look closely, these critters will be as present as the other origanisms, just smaller.

2) If you don't here anything, there is as much chance of having a predator sneaking up from behind you. And generally, if there is danger, you'll hear organisms fleeing from that danger.

3) He has said it a couple of times in other threads.




The only ambient noises that should be recorded is natural noises such as waves, wind, waterfulls, colisions between objects, etc...

The Uteen wrote:

Could I ask why we need ambient sounds? Everything simulated around you will make noise, you don't need more recorded noises.

And I repeat this statement again: No noise in creature stage please, you need sound for what your creature hears! By adding ambient sounds in you could hear a predator, get in a huge panic, and there is no predator for miles!

I'm beginning to wonder why I keep saying that... No-one listens.

The point here is that dynamically symulating each sound eats up a TON of proccesing power.

Also, ambients always loop.

Albalrogue wrote:

Well I'll have to agree with Uteen here.

1) Smal creatures that we won't see can be seen if we look closely, these critters will be as present as the other origanisms, just smaller.

And you want the game to simulate hundreds of these at once? That's impossible.

Albalrogue wrote:

2) If you don't here anything, there is as much chance of having a predator sneaking up from behind you. And generally, if there is danger, you'll hear organisms fleeing from that danger.

This argument can be as much used FOR ambient sounds.

Albalrogue wrote:

3) He has said it a couple of times in other threads.

He said it in a thread about music.

Quote :

The point here is that dynamically symulating each sound eats up a TON of proccesing power.

Also, ambients always loop.

True. Also, current computers support 32-64 sound channels, but playing many sounds at once still creates a mess.

Commander Keen wrote:

Albalrogue wrote:

Well I'll have to agree with Uteen here.

1) Smal creatures that we won't see can be seen if we look closely, these critters will be as present as the other origanisms, just smaller.

And you want the game to simulate hundreds of these at once? That's impossible.

No it isn't, all you need to do is set them in low qualaty, that will help you're computer by a lot.

Albalrogue wrote:

No it isn't, all you need to do is set them in low qualaty, that will help you're computer by a lot.

Yes, it is. The problem is not in CPU, but in your speakers and sound card. Unless you use 7.2 Dolby Digital, the only thing you are going to hear is earbreaking cacophony.

So we can simulate them, and I'm not too bothered about the sound quality, as long as what I'm hearing is actually there.

And I can't emphasise this enough, so I can try to by putting it in bold:

If you play sounds which are non-diegetic to (not actually in) the game world, you cannot be entirely sure what is and isn't what your creature is hearing. This will make sound much less reliable to you, and would be the equivalent to playing as a creature that hears voices and noises in its head! You want to know what noise is real and what isn't, so don't force ambience in creature stage at least, because creature stage is when you need your sense of hearing most.

The Uteen wrote:

So we can simulate them, and I'm not too bothered about the sound quality, as long as what I'm hearing is actually there.

If you mean playing 1 sound for 10000 crickets, then yes.

The Uteen wrote:

If you play sounds which are non-diegetic to (not actually in) the game world, you cannot be entirely sure what is and isn't what your creature is hearing. This will make sound much less reliable to you, and would be the equivalent to playing as a creature that hears voices and noises in its head! You want to know what noise is real and what isn't, so don't force ambience in creature stage at least, because creature stage is when you need your sense of hearing most.

But having silence is the opposite extreme. Maybe there could be ambience for each creature, so we would not have 50 animal sounds playing at once, but you would still only hear what's around you. Creatures could also play individual sounds once they are closer than X meters.

Commander Keen wrote:

The Uteen wrote:

So we can simulate them, and I'm not too bothered about the sound quality, as long as what I'm hearing is actually there.

If you mean playing 1 sound for 10000 crickets, then yes.

The Uteen wrote:

If you play sounds which are non-diegetic to (not actually in) the game world, you cannot be entirely sure what is and isn't what your creature is hearing. This will make sound much less reliable to you, and would be the equivalent to playing as a creature that hears voices and noises in its head! You want to know what noise is real and what isn't, so don't force ambience in creature stage at least, because creature stage is when you need your sense of hearing most.

But having silence is the opposite extreme. Maybe there could be ambience for each creature, so we would not have 50 animal sounds playing at once, but you would still only hear what's around you. Creatures could also play individual sounds once they are closer than X meters.

QFT, this is probably the best suggestion so far.

Commander Keen wrote:

Creatures could also play individual sounds once they are closer than X meters.

This idea I'm happier with...

So we use a slider sort of thing?

And remember about sizes of creatures, an ant and an elephant. Maybe we could use proportional distances?

The Uteen wrote:

So we use a slider sort of thing?

You mean in options? Definitely possible.

The Uteen wrote:

And remember about sizes of creatures, an ant and an elephant. Maybe we could use proportional distances?

Yeah, scale is something to consider. Just multiplying the X with relative scale of the organism.

Commander Keen wrote:

The Uteen wrote:

So we use a slider sort of thing?

You mean in options? Definitely possible.

The Uteen wrote:

And remember about sizes of creatures, an ant and an elephant. Maybe we could use proportional distances?

Yeah, scale is something to consider. Just multiplying the X with relative scale of the organism.

QFT

actually, i dont think scale should play a part of volume DIRECTLY.

here's my idea.

each potential sound has a radius (mentioned earlier), and if the player is outside this radius, the sound file is not played.

These radii will have a gradient map applied to them, meaning closer to the center means a higher volume value.

Large animals create much larger radii than smaller ones, so it is easier to achieve a higher volume value. for example, a shrieking dragon the size of a city will have a radius miles wide, and a few miles away will be very loud.

an ant would also generate sounds, but you would rarely ever hear them. if the ant is on your hand, you wouldn't hear it. but if the ant is outside your ear, you would hear it. if the ant puts his face on your eardrum and shrieks, you will hear a deafening sound, maybe.

the gradient map, in a 1 dimensional direction, could look like this.


numbers represent volume percentage
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
150% -- 130% -- 110% -- 100% -- 100% -- 90% -- 70% -- 50% -- 20% -- 10% -- 5% -- 2% -- 1% -- sound not accessed
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



EDIT: here's a picture, obviously not to scale. 5.0 means 500%

toxiciron wrote:

Maybe later (or now if you provide a working algorithm).

One (Changed: Two) thing(s) we might want to consider: Can speakers go loud enough to replicate noise as loud as a supersonic plane in your ear? We can't simulate the actual volume of some noises. I heard somewhere bats make noises very loud, but its pitch is out of our hearing range. That's another thing: The pitch in the game will be limited to the range we can hear.

The Uteen wrote:

One (Changed: Two) thing(s) we might want to consider: Can speakers go loud enough to replicate noise as loud as a supersonic plane in your ear? We can't simulate the actual volume of some noises. I heard somewhere bats make noises very loud, but its pitch is out of our hearing range. That's another thing: The pitch in the game will be limited to the range we can hear.

We could replace deafening noises by "ringing in ears" effect.

Commander Keen wrote:

The Uteen wrote:

One (Changed: Two) thing(s) we might want to consider: Can speakers go loud enough to replicate noise as loud as a supersonic plane in your ear? We can't simulate the actual volume of some noises. I heard somewhere bats make noises very loud, but its pitch is out of our hearing range. That's another thing: The pitch in the game will be limited to the range we can hear.

We could replace deafening noises by "ringing in ears" effect.

That's a must, i believe. As for ultrasonic noises and pitches we can't hear, we can quite easily just represent them with sounds we can. Did anybody see that episode of the Magic School Bus where the bus turned into a bat? The writers simply put a high pitched, sharp noise in to represent the ultrasonic screeching of the bat.