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 Societal Evolution

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Dr_Chillgood
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PostSubject: Societal Evolution   Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:31 pm

Well I was going to wait to do this but seeing as we've suddenly become more focused on technologies and such, I think it may be time for me to roll out my official concept for societal evolution.

First off: This system should be applicable to all current concepts on society/technology, it's simply a way to organize it. If I'm wrong, tell me. I don't have a lot of work done on this system so it won't be hard to change, and I don't get offended easily so don't worry (if you would worry that is).

Second: I feel it necessary to properly define the term society for this game: A group of organisms that have common contact with each other, share a general philosophy, and are formed under the same body of government.

This explanation may be a bit messy, every aspect of it is affected by the others so things may not make too much sense at first.

Basically this system is like a code of laws, an explanation of how things will work in society stage. Well here's the system:
I figure there are four key aspects to a societies evolution: Its culture, its knowledge of science, its needs, and its technology. Everything like defense from enemies, agriculture, and government aren't factors of their own, but the actually can be classified under any one of the above factors, so don't blow a gasket over that those things will work the same. (defense is classified as a social need, can be assessed with culturally, can be examined scientifically, and can be resolved by technology.)

Each aspect of this system will govern and be governed by each other aspect. The main driving force will be Social Needs however.

Overview:

Societal needs (I may also call it social needs):

Societal needs work simply in a concept stand point, they are basically things a culture needs or wants. The first societal needs will be simple things like: the need to not die to hungry predators, and the need to eat. Social needs are resolved by development in technology. Which means that the social needs create a sudden development in a field of Science. After a tech is developed and applied, the need is resolved.

Eventually things will get more complex such as: "We need a way to keep our neighboring tribe from killing us", or "we need to find a way to be more efficient in our crop fields." They still follow the basic "eat and not be eaten" necessities. Instead, the social need is directed more at the technology that this society already has. if they don't improve their fields or defense, then they will starve and be killed just as they would by predators. Of course if a complex social need isn't met, then a society will revert to a more primitive state.

There may be more than one social need at once for a society depending on its size, technological level, and culture.

Societal needs can be resolved by technologies, triggers the development, and may be recognized/created by culture.

Sciences (this is referred to as research in Alaska's technology Q/A thread):

Sciences are simply fields of research needed to create a certain Tech Object (referred to as Invention in Alaska's QA). Now keep in mind the term "science" is a very crude term, a science in this system could be anything from Farming, to an actual "science" like biology.

The recognition of a social need will trigger a certain science to be researched. So if your society needs to figure out how to safely cross a river, then you would have a group of primitive "engineers" looking for an answer.

Science is influenced by the development of tech. and other sciences, and may be restricted, or encouraged by culture.

If the society that wants to cross the river doesn't know about wood and rope working, and even if they did, don't have boats, then the primitive "engineers" won't develop a bridge. Or if the engineers' society worships the water and considers a bridge to be heretical (for some odd reason, remember it's an example) then the engineers won't develop the tech either.

Sciences may also influence culture, a quick example: Galileo was excommunicated, but I believe later on the catholic church ended up agreeing with his work.

Tech:

Tech objects, function parts, all of that fun stuff are in this category.
Tech can resolve societal needs , is created through the development of sciences, and, like science, may be restricted or endorsed by culture. Technology may also help the development of sciences (not going to give an example for that one, but *coughHubblespacetelescope/endcough*.)

There's not much needed to be added to that, but if anyone is confused, do ask.


Culture:

Culture includes anything pertaining to ideals, religion, philosophy or anything of that sort.
It Governs what sciences and techs are considered heretical, and in certain cases defines societal needs. It can be changed by societal needs (if your society has a small population they won't be sacrificing alot of people) and by sciences/tech.

Culture is first based off of your species mentality.

This system should allow for societies to develop uniquely, if societal evolution is driven by a large range of needs, technologies and cultures, there shouldn't be any two alien races that are the same. Keep in mind I only posted very brief explanation of how this should work simply to leave room for all of the details that we'll be able to fill in later.

Don't worry too much about this right now, focus on the OE and what not, lets get this game going

Works?

Edit: a crude crude crude visualization:
Spoiler:
 
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US_of_Alaska
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PostSubject: Re: Societal Evolution   Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:22 am

Hrm. Can you talk of this in relation to the current concepts for the Nation Editor and Society Centres? I'm struggling understanding how it would all fit together.
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ido66667
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PostSubject: Re: Societal Evolution   Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:45 am

Read the other concept first.
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Tenebrarum
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PostSubject: Re: Societal Evolution   Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:32 am

US_of_Alaska wrote:
Hrm. Can you talk of this in relation to the current concepts for the Nation Editor and Society Centres? I'm struggling understanding how it would all fit together.

ido66667 wrote:
Read the other concept first.

As the Society Team lead, I ask that you double check all current concepts before proposing new ones. We've worked on our own long and hard.
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US_of_Alaska
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PostSubject: Re: Societal Evolution   Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:47 pm

While i was never going to bend on our mechanics, Tenebrarum, this seems to be about the way the AI will evolve in the Society Stages. So i figure once the doc brushes up on the mechanics and how they affect it, he can maybe apply some of his ideas to our concept, considering we don't have much in the way of evolution.
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Dr_Chillgood
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PostSubject: Re: Societal Evolution   Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:59 am

Yah sure lemmie take a whack at cleaning this up. I made the concept just to tie everything together so let me see what I can do...

Ten minuets later:

Alright well clearly what I made here is a system for the AI more than a system for the player. Keep in mind the terms I used are vague, when I say "culture" I don't quite mean literally the culture, I mean it in a more broad term. Things like government, religion, traditions, mentality, philosophy. (I thought the whole "culture" term may have been a bit confusing at first, correct me if I'm wrong.) A better term maybe "Societal trends" or something of the sort, but I'm not shaping the concept to the words, I'm sort of bending the words definition for the sake of the concept.

Anyways, for the Nation editor page, society, culture and government fall under the "culture" category. They already do. You don't need to change anything about them. The system was developed to explain how a society will evolve by interactions happening between a rough grouping of concepts we all ready have.

I actually am a bit lost at how economy plays a role in things in a society. It would derive from trade, which would depend on currency, which would have been developed to help with trade. Trade occurs when a society develops a need for something they don't have. So economy fills a social need making it a technology, however it has cultural influence as well... hrm.

So that would make it a social technology. Its not a real technology , but rather a method of operation. I'll think this over later but back onto the current issues.

Society centers work like an oven. If societal aspects were a turkey, they'd be thrown into this oven so they can develop, change and be applied. The society center is what makes societal aspects move. It develops these aspects, the aspects in turn develop the SC and each other.

According to what I have read before (that's right I don't just go off and do stuff I'm smarter than that) and after (however I'm not near perfect...) this system was made to simply group all of our concepts together, and explain how they will interact with each other to result in an evolving society. It is more focused on AI development as the player will play a large role in making their own society.

Economy is a bit of a beast however. I think there may be category that will evolve certain social sciences, like government, economy, religion and what not. It would be a subset of the culture aspect and WOULD NOT INVOLVE CHANGING ANY CURRENT INFORMATION ON ECONOMY AND GOVERNMENT. It would just exist so we know how things will work with each other.

So then, system explains how things works with each other, not how things work period. The concept works with everything we already have but there are a few holes. Nothing that has been written down on society stage has been or will need to be changed. Nothing that has been written down on society stage has been or will need to be changed. I cannot stress that enough.
Oh yes and this system was made to show how things will work together not how things will work period. (can't stress that enough either).

Alright? Questions? Everyone's clear that nothing that has been written down on society stage has been or will need to be changed and that I can't stress that enough?
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US_of_Alaska
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PostSubject: Re: Societal Evolution   Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:28 am

Dr_Chillgood wrote:
-snip-
I'm sorry, Doc, but i still don't understand.

In the OP, you talk about "societal needs", which to me sound like triggers for Researches. Being under attack from predators is a societal need to develop weapons, and as such this event should trigger military technologies. I don't see how this is separate from the triggers function, i guess...

Sciences seem like a substitute to Researches and Inventions...

And Culture just seems very vague and basically says that no two peoples should be the same, without offering much in the way of how this will happen.

I thought you had read the stuff, Doc. I just don't see how your concepts relate to the mechanics we have conceptualised thus far.
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Dr_Chillgood
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PostSubject: Re: Societal Evolution   Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:33 am

Alright it's a bit late here I'll take a look at this tomorrow and see what I can do.

Edit: Alright I woke up this morning and started to think about this. I then realized that what I tried to do is explain and name something that we're going to do anyways. So yah what ever I posted is pretty pointless and confusing.

You can lock the thread now.

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US_of_Alaska
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PostSubject: Re: Societal Evolution   Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:38 pm

Dr_Chillgood wrote:
Alright it's a bit late here I'll take a look at this tomorrow and see what I can do.

Edit: Alright I woke up this morning and started to think about this. I then realized that what I tried to do is explain and name something that we're going to do anyways. So yah what ever I posted is pretty pointless and confusing.

You can lock the thread now.

Hahah, iskay Doc, we've all been there.
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