Statistics | We have 1675 registered users The newest registered user is dejo123
Our users have posted a total of 30851 messages in 1411 subjects
|
Who is online? | In total there are 2 users online :: 0 Registered, 0 Hidden and 2 Guests None Most users ever online was 443 on Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:41 pm |
Latest topics | » THIS FORUM IS NOW OBSOLETE by NickTheNick Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:26 pm
» To all the people who come here looking for thrive. by NickTheNick Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:22 pm
» Build Error Code::Blocks / CMake by crovea Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:28 pm
» Hello! I can translate in japanese by tjwhale Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:23 pm
» On Leave (Offline thread) by NickTheNick Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:20 am
» Devblog #14: A Brave New Forum by NickTheNick Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:49 am
» Application for Programmer by crovea Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:14 am
» Re-Reapplication by The Creator Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:57 pm
» Application (programming) by crovea Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:00 am
» Achieving Sapience by MitochondriaBox Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:03 pm
» Microbe Stage GDD by tjwhale Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:44 pm
» Application for Programmer/ Theorist by tjwhale Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:56 am
» Application for a 3D Modeler. by Kaiju4u Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:16 am
» Presentation by Othithu Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:38 am
» Application of Sorts by crovea Sun May 31, 2015 5:06 pm
» want to contribute by Renzope Sun May 31, 2015 12:58 pm
» Music List Thread (Post New Themes Here) by Oliveriver Thu May 28, 2015 1:06 pm
» Application: English-Spanish translator by Renzope Tue May 26, 2015 1:53 pm
» Want to be promoter or project manager by TheBudderBros Sun May 24, 2015 9:00 pm
» A new round of Forum Revamps! by Oliveriver Wed May 20, 2015 11:32 am
|
|
| Forum Activity | |
| | Author | Message |
---|
NickTheNick Overall Team Co-Lead
Posts : 2312 Reputation : 175 Join date : 2012-07-22 Age : 28 Location : Canada
| Subject: Forum Activity Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:33 pm | |
| Many of you users out there don't post very often. I want to give a chance for you guys to get more active if you are willing. Please, post what topics you guys would like to discuss or develop and I will try to get a thread on it up and running. However, make sure it is relevant, and it is not already covered. In exchange for this, I would like it if you guys would contribute to some of the very essential threads at the moment. Artists here. (Look for the post near the bottom of the page) Anyone really here. Scientists here. Programmers PM me. Musicians contact Doggit. | |
| | | NickTheNick Overall Team Co-Lead
Posts : 2312 Reputation : 175 Join date : 2012-07-22 Age : 28 Location : Canada
| Subject: Re: Forum Activity Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:06 am | |
| I'll only bump this once. Are there no topics you guys would like to discuss? This was a question to all you quieter people on the forums. | |
| | | ido66667 Regular
Posts : 366 Reputation : 5 Join date : 2011-05-14 Age : 110 Location : Space - Time
| Subject: Re: Forum Activity Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:18 am | |
| - NickTheNick wrote:
- I'll only bump this once. Are there no topics you guys would like to discuss? This was a question to all you quieter people on the forums.
I know some useful programming, and I want to help with some basic stuff, but I can't get a hold of anyone who is involved in any programming. | |
| | | Daniferrito Experienced
Posts : 726 Reputation : 70 Join date : 2012-10-10 Age : 30 Location : Spain
| Subject: Re: Forum Activity Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:52 am | |
| You could start with the compounds system. We are working on the initial ogre setup, but the compound system is something that coud be done separatly and the pluged in into the game. After that, i feel organelles programing could be the next step. | |
| | | ido66667 Regular
Posts : 366 Reputation : 5 Join date : 2011-05-14 Age : 110 Location : Space - Time
| Subject: Re: Forum Activity Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:53 am | |
| - Daniferrito wrote:
- You could start with the compounds system. We are working on the initial ogre setup, but the compound system is something that coud be done separatly and the pluged in into the game. After that, i feel organelles programing could be the next step.
If you don't have a player's cell class, I could make a basic one, and "Prepare the ground" for easy Compound system implementation. | |
| | | Daniferrito Experienced
Posts : 726 Reputation : 70 Join date : 2012-10-10 Age : 30 Location : Spain
| Subject: Re: Forum Activity Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:56 am | |
| Thats a good idea. But actually, i would prefer a general cell class, no matter if it is player controlled or not. Then we can implement agents to controll them. The player's cell agent will be directly controlled by the player, and the other cells will implement an AI agent. | |
| | | ido66667 Regular
Posts : 366 Reputation : 5 Join date : 2011-05-14 Age : 110 Location : Space - Time
| Subject: Re: Forum Activity Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:51 am | |
| - Daniferrito wrote:
- Thats a good idea. But actually, i would prefer a general cell class, no matter if it is player controlled or not. Then we can implement agents to controll them. The player's cell agent will be directly controlled by the player, and the other cells will implement an AI agent.
BTW, Look what I found in the compound system thread, an alternative: - gtd1320 wrote:
Hey this looks great and I really like all the detail that went into it, but I'm a little worried about the amount of calculations it takes, especially if you were going to be doing this for large numbers of cells So I'd like to propose an alternative system that can be used.
Equation: (A modification of the monod equation to account for temperature changes, and cell death)
u_net= (u_m*S/(K_s+S)*e^(-Ea/T)-kd
Variable Descriptions
- Spoiler:
The doubling rate of the cell is defined as t=ln(2)/u_net (can be how fast the cell grows) If the u_net is negative, then the cell is dying.
The energy available to the cell can be u_net/u_mm (might need to change this)
where u_mm is the maximum growth for the "best" substrate or food source.
How to account for multiple food sources and substrate selectivity.
- Spoiler:
So obviously this only accounts for one type of food source at a time, S. And cells sometimes need more than one type of nutrient source to survive. (sugars, amino acids, etc. ) Or the cell might be able to consume multiple nutrient subsets I.E. glucose, lactose, fructose for simple sugars. I'm still working on how to account for multiple foods for growth. (it may just end up being something like S1/(k_s1+S1)*S2/(k_s2+S2) but I'm not sure if that is scientifically accurate. But since cells tend to favor one type of food source over another almost completely, (they will consume it until it is gone) we can use this to get a pretty decent model. By having the method just move down a list of preferred substrates and pick the one that has the greatest k_m and the amount of S is not zero, or a critical minimum.
Cell death rate , kd
- Spoiler:
So kd is not a single term but rather a collection, and it would be collectively: kd=sum(k_di) where k_di is a death rate associated with a particular cause (temperature, toxins, maintenance etc) Examples:
Temperature: kd=A*e^(-kdt/T) where Ed is activation energy for thermal death
Toxins: kd = kd_toxin*C_toxin.
Cell maintenance (the amount of nutrients required to sustain a cell) can also be accounted for here as
kd = kd_m (this is a necessary value otherwise the cells would be able to live with no food, which is not realistic)
But what about oxygen?
- Spoiler:
So oxygen is actually pretty easy to model, each cell species has a critical oxygen level, DO_crit, where if the oxygen falls below this point it inhibits cell growth.
This effect is actually linear and can be modeled as u_m=u_m*min(1 , DO/DO_crit)
How this equation can be used for auto evo at the cellular level
- Spoiler:
Class structure for each cellular 'species' would need a u_m and K_s or kd for every compound it can interact with at the cellular level, as well as Ea, Ed, kd_m, and DO_crit.
An auto_evolution function can take a copy of a species profile, and modify it in a random but restricted way. (there must be both a benefit, and a cost. ) I.E. maybe increasing the u_m of one substrate or food source, but decreasing another, or increasing maintenance costs.
The temperature energies must be linked in some way, so that each species has a small preferred range of temperatures.
This will change how the cell is conditioned to live in each specific environment, and eventually cells with a better fit will outgrow the competition.
There would definitely have to be restrictions on what mutations are possible, (a food source should not also be a toxin).
The other thing is that this relies on diverging, and converging limitations. I.E. if there is always enough food, the system will keep generating mutations. In order to put a survival of the fittest situation there needs to be some type of stress on the biome. I.E. sudden loss of a substrate, dramatic temperature change, increase in toxins)
How to keep calculations simple but realistic
- Spoiler:
Biome splitting. By assuming the conditions (T,S,Toxins) in each biome are relatively constant per update, the u_net calculation only needs to be done once per cell species, per biome per update. A major improvement over doing it with each and every cell.
Species Extinction: If the amount of cells of a species falls below a certain minimum threshold, it should be declared extinct, instances of it should be removed, and it should be cleared from further updates.
Exceptions: The player's cells should always go through the u_net so that it provides a more realistic experience for local environment.
Other issues to look into
- Spoiler:
First and foremost, this equation does not account for how much substrate, S is being consumed. I'm looking into that, and there is a solution, but it requires experimental data which won't be available for theoretical mutations. I'll keep looking or hash together a reasonable model.
What happens on cell death? I'd imagine it would increase certain substrate concentrations locally, but how would the breakdown of complex molecules, back to simple substrates take place?
Oh definitions: I defined each 'species' as being separate by a single mutation, which isn't realistic, but I wanted to keep the terminology simple.
I realize you guys have probably already put a ton of work into the cell stage, and that this probably doesn't fit, but I'd just like to mention it in case it might be useful.
I might repost it in a new thread with modifications and other stuff, and also latex equations. P.S. About the Monod equation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monod_equation It might really help us to make a simple but realistic model. | |
| | | Sponsored content
| Subject: Re: Forum Activity | |
| |
| | | | Forum Activity | |
|
Similar topics | |
|
| Permissions in this forum: | You cannot reply to topics in this forum
| |
| |
| |