Checking whatsup with thrive

Hello, This is me, ido66667, formally the guy who had the most negative rep (-3 I believe, right?(I now got -1(Average negative rep?), Well, Sorry for being Belgium in the past)) in the thrive forum, while I am not active anymore, I still want to check what is happening with thrive.

I might get back to thrive in the future... I now know more advanced C++ and I am also messing around with Ogre3D, I also learned some python (A scripting language), and it is really dull to work alone, on nothing... Back to my original question, what is happening with thrive?

Here is a crappy C++ joke I invented:
Exceptions are like Pokemon, but in C++ you throw the Pokemon at the ball, not the ball at the Pokemon.

I really don't know why I posted that in here, LOL.

Hello ido, good to see you again. It's great to see you learning all those new things. I must ask my signature question though, does this really deserve its own thread? Couldn't you just use the on leave thread or the miscellaneous thread or even your welcome thread from way back when.

NickTheNick wrote:

Hello ido, good to see you again. It's great to see you learning all those new things. I must ask my signature question though, does this really deserve its own thread? Couldn't you just use the on leave thread or the miscellaneous thread or even your welcome thread from way back when.

Haven't though about that, feel free to delete this post, if I could contact seregon and ask him about the programming, I will gladly work on some simple stuff...

Also, I am learning calculus and differential equations (I am having abit of problem in the integration part while solving ODE's) so I may be able to help out in the future with stuff like the compound system.

I also want to learn some Topology, differential Geometry and Vector Calculus in the future... Cought the math fever.

P.S.
Again, sorry for being a di*k in the past.

Good luck with all of your studies, and don't worry, you weren't a Belgium in the past.

Welcome back! Since no-one has answered yet, we are currently preparing for programming microbe stage, by finalising concepts and preparing our resources (sound, graphics, etc.). More info here, here, here, and here.

The Uteen wrote:

Welcome back! Since no-one has answered yet, we are currently preparing for programming microbe stage, by finalising concepts and preparing our resources (sound, graphics, etc.). More info here, here, here, and here.

.Thank you, I checked them out, I still want to talk to Seregon, but I can't get a hold of him.

Seregon is very busy with university right now, don't rush him with anything.

NickTheNick wrote:

Seregon is very busy with university right now, don't rush him with anything.

Well, that means that we need more programmers, it seems that he is the only active one right now, the problem is that if people that want to help come, they will have no one to talk to.

I suggest that someone else should organize the programming effort (Be seregon's co - leader) if seregon don't have free time... we should ask him what he think we should do about this problem.

No, there isn't a problem, Apeiron, Andrew, and Daniferrito have taken his work over for him.

NickTheNick wrote:

No, there isn't a problem, Apeiron, Andrew, and Daniferrito have taken his work over for him.

Oh...

Sorry, I have been very busy, so not really had time to keep track of everything going on here. Nick knows better than I do whats going on with the programming right now, so perhaps he can give you a task to do? Otherwise I'd suggest having a go at the basic cell and agent classes as Dani mentioned in the other thread, though they'll need to be pretty good if we're gonna use them.

Also, the monod equation isn't an alternative to the compound system, if you read the further posts in the compound system and population dynamics thread you'll see why.

Seregon wrote:

Sorry, I have been very busy, so not really had time to keep track of everything going on here. Nick knows better than I do whats going on with the programming right now, so perhaps he can give you a task to do? Otherwise I'd suggest having a go at the basic cell and agent classes as Dani mentioned in the other thread, though they'll need to be pretty good if we're gonna use them.

Also, the monod equation isn't an alternative to the compound system, if you read the further posts in the compound system and population dynamics thread you'll see why.

Thanks you for your answer.

I beleive that the monod equition can be used alternative to the system, not an alternative of the way we simulate microscopic life... We don't have to compute every indevidual or define tons of variables for compounds... First we need to assume that our goal is not to simulate reality for the simulation itself, but for the game we are going to make and for the average player.

When we take into this assumption into account we can start questioning some of our current concepts... I think that some of the compounds will have minor affects on what the player experiences, now, If we do find compounds that can be ignored in the game, we could have a simple list of compounds... We can now define special variables for compounds.

If we change more stuff the above could solve one probelm.

Anywho, I really diden't consider alot of stuff... My point is that if we seriously consider other ideas and not having dogmas... We might discover better ways to reach our goals.

Back to the more practical side... I think that we could do a general cell class, and a player cell class derived from it.

I see better if we have a generic cell class, which is required to implement a controling agent. The player cell will implement a keyboard agent, and AI cells will implement AI agents. That makes it easier to swap controlls, for example, if we want the player's cell to be AI controlled, or to allow for a second controling player, controling a second cell, or for later, when the player is able to controll diferent creatures, either in strategy mode (your species only) or ascension (any creature).

The problem with the monod equation is that while it deals fairly nicely with the effect of a resource on cellular growth, it says nothing about the effect on the resource, the interaction between resources, or the effect of other resources. It also leaves little room for interaction with other species. In short, the monod equation represents a complete system, but a very simple and limited one (a very useful one for some purposes, but not ours). What we need is an extendable system, which can handle an arbitrary list of species and resources.

If that sounds too ambitious, it's not, the prototype in the compound system thread is an 80% working example of exactly that. If your worried we have too many compounds, maybe, but as I said the list of compounds is arbitrary, we can change it at any time. The only issue remaining is cpu usage, and I'm reasonably confident we should be ok there, but the only way to know is to test it.

We also need relatively little information on each compound (and they definately don't need to have seperate classes, they're objects), mainly what we need is the processes they're part of, the organs/organelles/body parts they're used to build, and for some of them their natural abundance. The processes is the only one we should have any issue with.

I should also point out that if we want to go dirtball simple, have a very limited list of compounds which are used in simple direct ways to grow your cell (without many reactions between them), we can do that in the current system. This seems to be what your argueing for, but to me that feels too much like dumbing down the game.

I also agree with Dani that the difference between a player cell and other cell should be contained in member objects (such as the controller agent), and not using a derived class. Inheritance is a useful tool, but way overused in most programming tutorials, and really not appropriate here.

Seregon wrote:

The problem with the monod equation is that while it deals fairly nicely with the effect of a resource on cellular growth, it says nothing about the effect on the resource, the interaction between resources, or the effect of other resources. It also leaves little room for interaction with other species. In short, the monod equation represents a complete system, but a very simple and limited one (a very useful one for some purposes, but not ours). What we need is an extendable system, which can handle an arbitrary list of species and resources.

If that sounds too ambitious, it's not, the prototype in the compound system thread is an 80% working example of exactly that. If your worried we have too many compounds, maybe, but as I said the list of compounds is arbitrary, we can change it at any time. The only issue remaining is cpu usage, and I'm reasonably confident we should be ok there, but the only way to know is to test it.

We also need relatively little information on each compound (and they definately don't need to have seperate classes, they're objects), mainly what we need is the processes they're part of, the organs/organelles/body parts they're used to build, and for some of them their natural abundance. The processes is the only one we should have any issue with.

I should also point out that if we want to go dirtball simple, have a very limited list of compounds which are used in simple direct ways to grow your cell (without many reactions between them), we can do that in the current system. This seems tom be what your argueing for, but to me ::that feels too much like dumbing down the game.

I also agree with Dani that the difference between a player cell and other cell should be contained in member objects (such as the controller agent), and not using a derived class. Inheritance is a useful tool, but way overused in most programming tutorials, and really not appropriate here.

Well, you have a point, anywho thanks for explaining more about your systems, I still think that we should keep this equation in mind for future use.

I guess I took my argument too far.

About the programming, thanks for your tip.

Also, If I really want to start I might need a quick briefing from Dani or anyone.