Music List Thread (Post New Themes Here)

Totemaster wrote:

Here's a Communist policy theme, composed by Doggit and me.



Any thoughts?

Again, another well put together piece, but you might want to consider the context a little.
Communism is a tough "theme" to hit, so we usually turn to our dear soviets for a little enlightenment. If you're interested as to what nationalistic soviet music sounded like in the USSR days Dmitri Shostakovich and Sergei Prokofiev are your typical guys. Anyways, your theme came off as a more "aztec" style theme, especially with the drumming rhythms. Keep in mind that after listening to most russian music from the soviet era, you feel inspired to go defend the motherland or something.
You can achieve this by using more advanced and "dance" style rhythms (if you wish i can elaborate), giving the full choral feel, and using the orchestra to your advantage (horns horns horns!!) Keep the harmonic structure strong. Give tons of powerful cadences and secondary dominants (especially the 7ths) at full forte and youll probably get that strong russian feel. (example: russian national anthem has D7-G7-C parts, uses mostly I,ii,iii,IV,V (VI used mostly with V or iii due to the 5th relationship.) tons of imperfect and perfect cadences, and lots of minor to major. and not mention dotted rhythms used for passing notes between chords).
All in all, get grander or get more rhythm and movement into the piece. Dont overexert yourself with the harmony but get the bass and melody ornamented. Dont be afraid to repeat a theme and just throw in the whole choir and like 40 extra horns. Oh and you could always end with the tacky drum rhythms (listen to the farewell of slavianka i posted in the spoiler link)
To be honest, you could just copy half the harmonies from the soviet national anthem and do your own take on it!

Song Examples:

In response to Psych0Ch3f:

Thanks.
Yeah, I'll look into it. There's bound to be some way I can fix it.


Anyway, here's a short theme I composed for "Game Over", with a nod to Oliveriver's main theme.

I made two versions. Which one do you guys (and gals) prefer?

Version 1:


Version 2:

Totemaster wrote:

In response to Psych0Ch3f:

Thanks.
Yeah, I'll look into it. There's bound to be some way I can fix it.


Anyway, here's a short theme I composed for "Game Over", with a nod to Oliveriver's main theme.

I made two versions. Which one do you guys (and gals) prefer?

Version 1:


Version 2:

I would say V2. .3. I like the addition of percussion.

Yes i prefer second version too.

Psych0Ch3f, you seem very knowledgeable on the subject of musical theory. I'm glad there's some extra critique from you to these songs because even though these songs are great, sometimes it's not quite easy to get a bullseye on achieving the exact feeling and theme that you want. Constructive criticism is appreciated. Hopefully my next theme can hit the target. Hmm, any ideas on what I should compose next anyone?

Ya I'd do V2 as well.
Quick question, how long is the game over screen? Is it actually more than 30seconds? I usually lose my temper and restart within 5 seconds of a game over haha. Maybe make a 10ish second version as well? (use that intense part with all the strings)
Also, any reason you stopped the drums? I sorta wanted them to continue... =/  :|
By the way, I can probably find this if i look enough in the forums but ill ask anyway. What programs are you guys using to make your music? (just out of curiosity)

Psych0Ch3f wrote:

Ya I'd do V2 as well.
Quick question, how long is the game over screen? Is it actually more than 30seconds? I usually lose my temper and restart within 5 seconds of a game over haha. Maybe make a 10ish second version as well? (use that intense part with all the strings)
Also, any reason you stopped the drums? I sorta wanted them to continue... =/  :|
By the way, I can probably find this if i look enough in the forums but ill ask anyway. What programs are you guys using to make your music? (just out of curiosity)

I honestly have no idea how long the game over screen will be. I don't think it's been decided yet. I just made something that's long enough to listen to should the player choose to do so, or need to leave the computer for whatever reason.

I could possibly make one, yeah.

Well, there are two reasons I dimmed the drums at the start. First of all, I asked Oliveriver what he thought of V1, and he told me that the drums didn't really work very well. Secondly, the drums could be interperated as a metaphor for the heartbeat of the species or people, slowly fading into nothing.

I use FL Studio version 11, first suggested to me by Doggit.

Psych0Ch3f wrote:

Ya I'd do V2 as well.
Quick question, how long is the game over screen? Is it actually more than 30seconds? I usually lose my temper and restart within 5 seconds of a game over haha. Maybe make a 10ish second version as well? (use that intense part with all the strings)
Also, any reason you stopped the drums? I sorta wanted them to continue... =/  :|
By the way, I can probably find this if i look enough in the forums but ill ask anyway. What programs are you guys using to make your music? (just out of curiosity)

The game over screen will probably just repeat until the player presses a continue button or whatever is decided upon.

As for music composition, I use Cubase Elements 7 and Audacity, but I know Doggit uses FL Studio and Audacity.

I'm very familiar with fruity loops studio (I still use version 9, since I have a messy set of plugins there). I've used cubase in the past for production (I switched to logic for mac now).
Just a quick observation of the songs you guys have made so far (i spent almost an hour checking them out. some are truly amazing, I was impressed.) If you're using Fl studio and cubase, some songs have quite poor sound audio for a program of that quality. Both are professional level (not consumer level) programs that can handle the best plugins available (my fave right now is massive, try it out if you have free time. There may be some torrents you can find for it). You might want to consider checking out some tutorials on youtube or somewhere to increase the overall quality of your music (or some of you could teach others). I'm not saying it's terrible or anything.
Consider it like this, its like a character that has 50STR 50DEF but 5SPD. You'd obviously boost their speed stat  since it's dragging them down right? You guys got the right ideas, harmonies but sometimes the quality is dwarfed by the others.
I'm terribly busy with my biochemistry degree right now, but otherwise i'd love to compose some of my own originals (I record live) and submit them. Maybe this winter or summer. I hope I haven't been to critical.
Psych0ch3f.

To which themes are you specifically referring? When I first started composing for Thrive, I was a complete novice with Cubase, so I know my early compositions are probably far from the best they could be quality-wise. I'd be looking forward to anything you can compose whenever you get the time to. :) 

Probably the one that bugged me the most would be the strings in the V7 of the main theme. You need better plugins for that. It is good quality, but its not where it could be with the programs you guys are using. Sometimes the strings sound too static and the drums being poor quality, and I can see the theme being just pure gold if it had that fixed. Also, dynamics should be put to more use, as well, and not to mention the solo violin/string hurts my ears and is slightly off beat. (a better plugin/sample would fix that, and im not sure if the slight delay is on purpose)
I would recommend getting your hands on Native Instruments Kontakt (its got EVERYTHING youd want, its my favourite sampler out there) heres an example of what it does: Kontakt Demo
If you want to go strait up professional, go for LA scoring strings. Use that library with Kontakt and youll be undefeatable. It costs $1400 US, but if you know where to look online....you can get it for 0...
Sample of LA scoring strings:

Spoiler:

The piano you used in the V7 was actually beautiful, but if you ever want a new sample library, Cinesamples Piano in Blue is amazzzzing. (and surprisingly affordable!)

To be honest, even I dont know enough to use the full potential of these programs, I just know how to use certain bits that are useful in studio and add to my tracks.
Oh and another thing I need to ask about is your theme for the spaceship launch, the sound was a bit...err....stingy? Maybe that sharp sounding saw(or whatever sample you used) is what youre going for, but I found it unsettling and maybe a deep strings section with a timpani (instead of drums) might give it a more ambiance feel.
I'll be sure to record something in the summer (or maybe winter) for you guys. My friend's studio has its hands on a beautiful KORG KRONOS 88 (4100$US) keyboard and I know im just itching to use that. Question is, what type of theme/sound are you looking for? (you guys seem to have a lot of bases covered.

Anyways, thanks for reading this long post

It sounds like you are quite experienced in music and musical theory psycho, and its good to have you give your insight here. What are you suggesting as the improvement for the themes, the composition programs?

As far as composing goes, it's not valid to criticize the composition itself, but if there's a conflict between the composition and it's implied theme and/or purpose, improvements can be made. With all that said, I feel as if some themes are amazing and fit the mood perfectly, whereas some could use reworking. I've mentioned a few themes to date such as the communism theme, or the jagged sounding space launch theme.  
Now I'm relatively new to thrive (I've had my eye on you guys for a while) but I'm not sure what the standard is for the music here. Are you aiming for as much of a professional sounding soundtrack as possible? Or does 8-bit music suit your situation here?
Anyways, my general understand is that with a very classical ambiance style would suit Thrive's gameplay (correct me if I'm mistaken). So here are my full thoughts.
You are all using good advanced programs, which have the ability to achieve a very crisp sound and have a large sample library. No excuse for poor quality samples and music. A lot of the themes have satisfactory sounding quality and then just have it ruined by obnoxiously loud noises that hurt my ears
. Sorry if thats a bit harsh, but thats what I'm hearing.

So I feel this comes down to 2 things. Quality control and Using the Composition Programs.

It seems to me that the general composition of themes is very haphazard here. I find like 3 communist themes, 5 versions, and then a theme that I can't really see happening in most situations of Thrive. IT would make more sense if you had a list of approved themes, and had a general idea of what themes should take precedence over others and work longer on those. There needs to be more constructive criticizm and planning around it. I'm sure in some cases it doesnt make a difference but in some cases  it makes all the difference. Ill give you a personal example: I had the opportunity to have one of my orchestral compositions featured in a concert with a folk theme. In preparation of this, I sat down with various people and got a good idea of what harmonies, instruments and rhythms were key to this style. So likewise, maybe you can "pitch an idea" on the forum if you aren't 100% sure or want some background info. Instead of just writing something (and putting all that effort in), it would make sense to ask questions before hand and have a better idea of what to do. Then once you have a first version or two work on those and then collectively  agree on it and have it approved. Then you can build a list of songs that you know will be featured in the game. (start building a libary) then you can see what themes are missing and go for those.
So overall, you'd have a organized library, with themes that have been polished up and all at a certain quality level.

For using the composition programs, I'm sure a lot of knowledge can be shared as compositions are being put up and developed. Youtubes a great resource, online forums, pretty much the internet lets us do anything. But if theres one general comment i can make is that the quality of some plugins/samples is disastrous to the mood.

Thanks for reading.

I would like to hear a your composition . We are not have a song about a march army of the monarchy.

Try to get it and after we will judge this song.

I remind you that many songs that are inside of this discussion are songs that have not been officialized and also that "official songs" may in the future have the changes.

I remind you also that we have not yet finished the microbial stage, so do not understand what there is to worry about songs of the civilization stage.

I've improved the communist theme to Version 3:



I gave it a bit more of a Russian feel, and added more brass instruments (I held back a bit on them though, as honestly the brass instruments in FL Studio sound terrible XP ).
I'm reluctant to make this track sound even more Russian though, for the following reason:
The communists in Thrive won't even be human, let alone Russian. And even on Earth, many other countries besides Russia (e.g. China, North Korea, and Cuba) became communist states.
In my opinion, if I tried to make this song sound even more Russian, it would probably start drinking vodka and wrestling bears.

But still, let me know what you guys think.

You use FL Studio? Excellent!

Pro tip: The Sytrus plugin has pretty decent brass synths. Brass Ensemble is my synth of choice for such things:

Brassy Stuff

Instead I'm right because, as I said, is not released tomorrow the civilization stage, but among (many) years then we need to worry more about the songs that cover the stage microbial, in my opinion, they are easier to do because their have a completely Ambient sound.

Second point, I tell you that you have judged songs that are produced by our users / composers (not officially in the team) put here to be judged and hope to become their official songs. But it does not happen so often.

I prefer the productions than words. Prefer a song per month that endless discussions. For more than a year and a half that I work here I have seen more words by users hit and run.

p.s. I ask apologize for the mistake I deleted your post.

Doggit. wrote:

p.s. I ask apologize for the mistake I deleted your post.

Ah. I was planning to QFT Psych0Ch3f's whole post as he made some excellent points.

In my opinion, the criticism and judging of our themes is currently pretty minimal - with the exception of the odd, "Remove this instrument," or "Change this effect," there has been little actual analysis of each other's compositions. In some ways, that's to be expected, as I doubt many people other than our composers actually know enough about music theory or song structure to find the right way to word their criticisms or even know something's wrong. I myself am probably guilty of being too nice when confronted with compositions that don't quite fit, along with often neglecting to change my own themes when an improvement is suggested.

The question of whether we should be composing for later stages is a sticky one. In my opinion, there's no reason why we shouldn't make plenty of themes for later stages (seeing as the number of scenarios and possible situations increases a huge amount with each stage), but I agree with Doggit that the microbe themes should take precedence above all else, at least until we're happy with the list of themes for that stage and feel they give to the gameplay. We probably do need a more structured approach to which themes we should compose next, but that leads to another problem - sometimes I can't think of what I should work on next or I don't have the inspiration to at that particular moment so a specific theme designated for me to work on would be a good idea, but most of the time I compose whatever comes into my head (or my fingers as I mess around on the piano) and apply it to the most appropriate situation in the game for such a composition. An example of each of these approaches is my Moon Landing Theme for the former (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdEasoH5vRA) and the Fallen Soldiers Theme for the latter (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhjwL1PYOPI). As I see it, the best approach is to have a set list of themes which are required to be composed as top priority but still allow our composers to work on themes for any stage of the game if they so wish.

As for the plugins, I'm not familiar with them so far, but I doubt it would be too difficult to install some (the brass in Cubase, like FL Studio, is frustrating and the strings don't have much variety, so they'd definitely come in handy).

Psych0Ch3f, the first post of this thread contains a list of all music composed for Thrive (although I think I need to update it a little with the most recent compositions), so if there are any in that list which you specifically think need to be changed somehow, make sure to tell us. Doggit, I'm not sure whether it's the way your post has been translated or not, but you're coming off a little arrogant and hard to understand.

Oliveriver wrote:

Doggit. wrote:

p.s. I ask apologize for the mistake I deleted your post.

Ah. I was planning to QFT Psych0Ch3f's whole post as he made some excellent points.

In my opinion, the criticism and judging of our themes is currently pretty minimal - with the exception of the odd, "Remove this instrument," or "Change this effect," there has been little actual analysis of each other's compositions. In some ways, that's to be expected, as I doubt many people other than our composers actually know enough about music theory or song structure to find the right way to word their criticisms or even know something's wrong. I myself am probably guilty of being too nice when confronted with compositions that don't quite fit, along with often neglecting to change my own themes when an improvement is suggested.

The question of whether we should be composing for later stages is a sticky one. In my opinion, there's no reason why we shouldn't make plenty of themes for later stages (seeing as the number of scenarios and possible situations increases a huge amount with each stage), but I agree with Doggit that the microbe themes should take precedence above all else, at least until we're happy with the list of themes for that stage and feel they give to the gameplay. We probably do need a more structured approach to which themes we should compose next, but that leads to another problem - sometimes I can't think of what I should work on next or I don't have the inspiration to at that particular moment so a specific theme designated for me to work on would be a good idea, but most of the time I compose whatever comes into my head (or my fingers as I mess around on the piano) and apply it to the most appropriate situation in the game for such a composition. An example of each of these approaches is my Moon Landing Theme for the former (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdEasoH5vRA) and the Fallen Soldiers Theme for the latter (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhjwL1PYOPI). As I see it, the best approach is to have a set list of themes which are required to be composed as top priority but still allow our composers to work on themes for any stage of the game if they so wish.

As for the plugins, I'm not familiar with them so far, but I doubt it would be too difficult to install some (the brass in Cubase, like FL Studio, is frustrating and the strings don't have much variety, so they'd definitely come in handy).

Psych0Ch3f, the first post of this thread contains a list of all music composed for Thrive (although I think I need to update it a little with the most recent compositions), so if there are any in that list which you specifically think need to be changed somehow, make sure to tell us. Doggit, I'm not sure whether it's the way your post has been translated or not, but you're coming off a little arrogant and hard to understand.

The sense was that I prefer a person who make even one theme per month, rather a person who judges only without understanding exactly like it is. There is nothing arrogant, but just my observation.

I think you're right on the main list of themes to do (if you want we can think about it tonight on skype and then publish it).

Perhaps he did not understand him, is that often people (including me of course) they themes in the later stages of making songs that, if you come out well, can become officers.

I hope I am wrong and hear one of his songs.

Just to interrupt this discussion a little, here's a Steampunk Theme I composed:



Inspired by the soundtrack to A Clockwork Orange (in which Beethoven's music was reworked using modern synthesizers to create a sound that was both old and new), I remixed Handel's Zadok the Priest using a lot of synthesizers and strings. Zadok the Priest is commonly associated with Victorian England (it's the title music in Victoria II, for instance), which is of course the inspiration for steampunk. I'd imagine steampunk in Thrive would apply to a civilisation which has advanced technology but no advanced methods of generating electricity.

Before I say anything about any of the other earlier posts I'd rather actually talk about music

Oliveriver wrote:

Just to interrupt this discussion a little, here's a Steampunk Theme I composed:

Spoiler:

Inspired by the soundtrack to A Clockwork Orange (in which Beethoven's music was reworked using modern synthesizers to create a sound that was both old and new), I remixed Handel's Zadok the Priest using a lot of synthesizers and strings. Zadok the Priest is commonly associated with Victorian England (it's the title music in Victoria II, for instance), which is of course the inspiration for steampunk. I'd imagine steampunk in Thrive would apply to a civilisation which has advanced technology but no advanced methods of generating electricity.

Honestly, for a steampunk theme, I think this might fall at one end of the spectrum! It'll be a nice transition towards steampunk style music without getting too "hardcore" into the genre, but is missing something I feel essential of steampunk music (this seems to be leaning towards the moderate classical end). IMO. the song itself is actually quite pleasant, but perhaps fits a different theme (the reworking of the music was done quite cleverly! bravo!). Dont forget that the music hall was one of the big advancements in the victorian era, so even while classical music was thriving (hehe) the folk song changed into the popular song. (you could even say its the transition to pop music) Check out some steampunk bands like abney park or something if you want random exposure to different types steampunk.

Essentially the one thing *in my opinion* you may want to add to your next steampunk theme (or later versions):
-Mechanical sounds in the background. (used as a constant ostinato) Kinda like this. A solid "mechanical like" drum beat as well gives it a steam engine feel. And we can all agree that if steampunk and steam engine are very closely knit. So maybe up the tempo, experiment with new sounds and throw in that beat. (as simple as you want it).

I hope this was helpful. I try to offer constructive criticism in a tactful manner, without discouraging anybody. I hesitate to respond to some of the earlier remarks made by Doggit, since this is the music list thread and I guess we should keep the other stuff to a minimum. Ill just say a few quick things
1. It states on the forums that "Many of our members speak English as a second or third language, so be accepting of misspellings and imperfect grammar. At the same time, try to keep your own posts as coherent as possible, so that there is minimal misunderstanding between members."
I am very aware and understanding of this, but if I were someone else, I could have been extremely offended by your tone in your reply Doggit. Just a heads up. I know you don't want to come off as arrogant.

Doggit wrote:

The sense was that I prefer a person who make even one theme per month, rather a person who judges only without understanding exactly like it is. There is nothing arrogant, but just my observation.

You sure you didnt jump the gun there on "person who judges only without understanding exactly like it is"? We're all composers here with different experiences. I'm sure not all of us here is accustomed to the way things go on thrive (especially me), but I'm trying to add my own experiences to the pool here. I'm assuming you think Im a random know it all whos just butting in an saying what he wants. I'm not forcing you to do any changes, I'm just suggesting things. Regarding my own composing experience: Ever written for a symphony and rehearsed with them? Took me a week just to prepare all the sheet music for each part and do detailed corrections after rehearsals. I wont go into more detail. I said id write something (in the post you deleted...) when i get back to my studio in december (ive even already contacted my studio mates)

Doggit wrote:

I hope I am wrong and hear one of his songs.

You will. Just stay tuned. If you want I'll shut up on these forums until then. Then ill show you that I know my stuff.

Doggit wrote:

The sense was that I prefer a person who make even one theme per month, rather a person who judges only without understanding exactly like it is. There is nothing arrogant, but just my observation.

I think you're right on the main list of themes to do (if you want we can think about it tonight on skype and then publish it).

Perhaps he did not understand him, is that often people (including me of course) they themes in the later stages of making songs that, if you come out well, can become officers.

I hope I am wrong and hear one of his songs.

Doggit, I understand what you're trying to say, and I have noticed sometimes new users on the forum (but not very often) speak with authority before they have made themselves very well known. However, at the same time, that doesn't mean people with experience in the project get more authority to what they say and new users get none. There should be no notion or sense of a hierarchy of authority and legitimacy. A good idea from a newcomer is a good idea, just as if it had been a good idea from an old user. I don't think you should base your entire judgement off of what Psychochef composes. We have had plenty of coders, artists, animators, scientists, and mathematicians give us valuable criticism that helped improve our work. None of them were ignored for not producing any work, nor were there any post deletions.

Remember guys, that all of you have the same goal, to improve the music, and make the best game possible. It doesn't matter whether you disagree on the current quality of the music, because we can all agree that any chance to improve and advance is beneficial. Heck, I'm a co-team lead (or something) now, but I don't regard myself in any higher authority with the suggestions and criticisms I make than anyone else. My job is to do fancy stuff with threads like split them, move them, and keep the forum on topic and on track, but when it gets down to it I am no more elevated than anyone else when offering my opinion, and I think it should be the same for everyone else.

Just remember that we are all here to cooperatively make an ambitious yet achievable game. Some of us have titles to help keep things organized and in order, and sure some of us will have differences in opinion, but that's how games are made.

Psych0Ch3f wrote:

Honestly, for a steampunk theme, I think this might fall at one end of the spectrum! It'll be a nice transition towards steampunk style music without getting too "hardcore" into the genre, but is missing something I feel essential of steampunk music (this seems to be leaning towards the moderate classical end). IMO. the song itself is actually quite pleasant, but perhaps fits a different theme (the reworking of the music was done quite cleverly! bravo!). Dont forget that the music hall was one of the big advancements in the victorian era, so even while classical music was thriving (hehe) the folk song changed into the popular song. (you could even say its the transition to pop music) Check out some steampunk bands like abney park or something if you want random exposure to different types steampunk.

Essentially the one thing *in my opinion* you may want to add to your next steampunk theme (or later versions):
-Mechanical sounds in the background. (used as a constant ostinato) Kinda like this. A solid "mechanical like" drum beat as well gives it a steam engine feel. And we can all agree that if steampunk and steam engine are very closely knit. So maybe up the tempo, experiment with new sounds and throw in that beat. (as simple as you want it).

Originally, it was heading in the direction you mentioned here - hard, mechanical, etc. - but I didn't really feel it was working. It was very dissonant and felt far too busy and disruptive to fit what it effectively background music. When I had the idea of reworking Zadok the Priest instead, I did away with most of that version (although one of the synthesizers and one string melody still remain in the current version under new guises). I imagined the mechanical sounds would come from the environment rather than the music itself, although you're probably right with the mechanical drumbeat.

The first of what will probably end up being a long line of medieval combat themes:

I don't think that sounds very much like battle music. It needs to be more fast paced and intense. Some of the best examples of medieval battle music I can think of are from the masterpiece of a game Medieval 2 Total War.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY81yYFzgiU

That's one good example, but make sure to skip to 1:00 before it gets good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCHSreFMkXw&list=RD02bCHSreFMkXw

This playlist has some of the best medieval battle music I have heard in video games. Especially the first one, which is a favourite of mine.