Society Centres

Society Centres (may also be called SCs) are basically cities. Any area that has a large population density and lots of buildings (tech objects labelled with structure or shelter) can be turned into a single SC. When an SC is defined, the game will count up all of the people (this does not mean humans, but sapient beings) in the player's faction, and store it as a variable. The people will then no longer really exist except to move around the SC and make it look busy. The buildings and their types will also become purely aesthetic and their bonuses will get amalgamated into the SC. In this way, an SC is really just a collection of people and tech objects. The SC will be given a randomly generated name and the boundaries of the SC will be shown by a thin line matching the colour of the player's faction.

Now we will look at how the player interacts with SCs. Most SC interaction will be done through the Society Centre Panel. The Panel can be opened by double-clicking on an SC or clicking on an SC and then choosing the 'Society Centre Panel' option. Once in the Panel the player will be able to view and change all of the things in the SC. The different sections of the SC will be shown in a number of tabs. The tabs are as follows:

OVERVIEW
This will be the default tab selected when the SC Panel is shown. This will show the basic information of the selected SC. This includes the SC's name, population, research value, production value, stability and average health. Simplified versions of these values will be able to be seen without entering the SC Panel. The player will be able to change the SC's name at any time, but changing the name of an SC that has not changed for a long time may cause temporary unhappiness in the SC. This tab will also have a section for the player to view what resources are stored in the city and how much there are.

PEOPLE
This tab handles all of the able bodies in the SC. In this tab the player will be able to view the birth rates and death rates of their SC, and thus the growth rate. The amount of population that is controlled by the player depends on the player's 'Control' slider in the Culture Editor*. With the slider on it's highest, the player will be able to select exactly how much % of the population should be assigned to each Specialist Group, at lower values they will be more random. Even at a low slider value, the player can try to influence the amount of each specialist by assigning more wages (not strictly currency, more likely food) to certain specialists. The Specialists at this point** will be as follows:
Civilian - Produces small amounts of happiness and production
Gatherer - Collects nearby resources
Researcher - Produces research points
Worker - Produces production points
Military - Produces order points
Medical - Increases overall health relative to the Medical Research Level
Entertainer - Increases overall happiness and decreases overall order

Any person that is too young, too old, or physically incapable of becoming a specialist will be classed as a civilian. Each specialist group will have it's own happiness rating that will reflect on it's efficiency. For example an SC with a Worker Happiness of 8/10 will have a production value of 80% what it should be. The simplified equation: Worker Production = No. of Workers X Happiness X Technology Level. This would work with all specialists.

Any kind of specialist can also be deployed from the SC. This means that they will leave the SC and become a controllable unit or number of units. This can be done by clicking on the 'Deploy' button and then choosing which type of specialist you want to deploy and how many. Using the deploy button, the player can move their specialists to different SCs as they are needed. A unit will take a small amount of time to get their things and leave the city. Deploying Gatherers will allow the player to set resources to be gathered by using regular RTS style controls. Deployed Worker and Military units will operate similar to most RTS games. Any deployed unit will be able to be equipped with a Tech Object on it's way out of the city, and may be re-equipped or un-equipped if the desired Tech Object is nearby.

CONSTRUCTION
This tab deals with all Technology Objects (objects created by the player or AI with the Tech Editor). As Tech Objects can be anything from buildings to tools, this tab will need to cater for many different things. For Techs tagged with 'Structure' or "Shelter', the mechanic will be similar to the build mechanic in most RTS games. The player can select the Tech they want and choose a building site. How long a tech takes to build will be relative to the production value an SC is producing. When a Tech Object is being built it will be shown in the build cue, along with it's status (%) and priority (%). The player can change the priority of a TEch by clicking the priority icon on the object, or by opening the build options of the object and changing it. In the Tech Editor each Tech Object will have a complexity value as well as it's associated resource cost. The complexity value will be turned into a construction value in the main game, and the time it takes to build will depend on the production amount, it's priority and the construction value. The simplified equation: Percent done = Construction Value - (Time elapsed X Total City Production X Priority).

RESEARCH
This tab shows a more in-depth breakdown of the SC's research. In the early game this tab will not have much on it. It will show the amount of research the SC is producing and that's all. More advanced researches (like scientific method) will unlock more options in this tab. In the late game the player will be able to view how much research is going into each area***, and even let the player change the percentage amount that is being zoned to each area. This will allow more concentrated research in the areas that the player feels they need.


So now we know how the player interacts with the SC, but we need to know what effects all of these values will have. Here is a list** of how the values defined in the SC will effect gameplay.

POPULATION
The population is the number of people in the SC. The player can zone the population in the People Tab (see above).

OVERALL HAPPINESS
The average happiness of the people living in the SC. Happier people will be more productive, whereas unhappy people will be less productive and have a negative effect on overall stability. Happiness is increased with specialists and specialist buildings, and decreased by bad living conditions, high death rates and close proximity to happy SCs that belong to another faction. The equation: Happiness = (Entertainers X Technology Level X Entertainment Buildings Bonus X Civilian Bonus) - (Death Rate X Population Density X Happy Nearby Factions). Happiness can be a negative value.

Individual Specialist Happiness will be calculated slightly differently, taking into account the wages each position is paid. Equation: Specialist Happiness = Wage - (Overall Death Rate X Population Density). The exception to this is Civilians, their happiness is calculated like the overall happiness.

OVERALL ORDER
The average order of the SC. More and happier military units will result in a higher 'Order' value. Entertainment venues and specialists will decrease this value. Equation: Order = (Military X Technology Level X Military Buildings Bonus) - (Entertainers X Entertainment Buildings Bonus). Order can be a negative value.

STABILITY
The overall stability and loyalty of the SC to the player's faction. An instable SC may revolt and start it's own faction, or join another faction. Highly stable and happy SCs may encourage other nearby instable SCs to join the stable faction. Instable SCs may also riot and destroy buildings and kill people. Stability is directly affected by happiness and order. Equation: Stability = Happiness + Order.

RESEARCH VALUE
The overall research value of the SC. This is simply the number of researchers and the technology and buildings available to them. Equation: Research = Researchers X Researcher Happiness X Technology Level X Research Buildings.

PRODUCTION VALUE
The overall production value of the SC. This is simply the number of workers and the technology and buildings available to them. Equation: Production = Workers X Worker Happiness X Technology Level X Production Buildings

HEALTH
The overall health of the SC. This is simply the number of medical specialists and the technology and buildings available to them. Equation: Health = Medics X Medic Happiness X Technology Level X Medical Buildings


So that is how the values will affect the game. I hope i have made this concept a lot clearer to people and haven't taken up too much of your reading time. If it helps, it took me a lot longer to write it than for you to read it. Let me know if something doesn't make sense or you have a suggestion.

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*I am not sure that this is where it will be located, but from what i can gather that is the best place for it.
**These lists are just my own thoughts after reading around, and is by no means exactly how the game will be.
***Research Areas are being discussed here, and are still under some debate

Ah, good 'ol SCs. I'm 95% certain this will be in the final copy.

I'll let you guys take care of strategy mode- i'm not versed in RTS play.I trust you'll get it down pack.

~sciocont wrote:

I'll let you guys take care of strategy mode- i'm not versed in RTS play.I trust you'll get it down pack.

That's fine with me. I live for Empire-Building Strategy games.

I like RTS games. But I'm terrible at them.

InvaderZim wrote:

I like RTS games. But I'm terrible at them.

I was actually thinking that we could make it an RTS that closely resembles a TBS. If the game paused every time something was completed in an SC, then it would allow the player to manage their empire more easily. When they selected the next thing for the city to build, or pressed 'play' (a keyboard shortcut would be handy), then the game would start up again. It would make it much easier to handle the hundreds of things going on, and make micromanagement more handleable.

What do you think?

US_of_Alaska wrote:

InvaderZim wrote:

I like RTS games. But I'm terrible at them.

I was actually thinking that we could make it an RTS that closely resembles a TBS. If the game paused every time something was completed in an SC, then it would allow the player to manage their empire more easily. When they selected the next thing for the city to build, or pressed 'play' (a keyboard shortcut would be handy), then the game would start up again. It would make it much easier to handle the hundreds of things going on, and make micromanagement more handleable.

What do you think?

Well, my game pausing every ten seconds would get annoying, but if it were to only alert me of the major, MAJOR occurances, then yes.

InvaderZim wrote:

US_of_Alaska wrote:

InvaderZim wrote:

I like RTS games. But I'm terrible at them.

I was actually thinking that we could make it an RTS that closely resembles a TBS. If the game paused every time something was completed in an SC, then it would allow the player to manage their empire more easily. When they selected the next thing for the city to build, or pressed 'play' (a keyboard shortcut would be handy), then the game would start up again. It would make it much easier to handle the hundreds of things going on, and make micromanagement more handleable.

What do you think?

Well, my game pausing every ten seconds would get annoying, but if it were to only alert me of the major, MAJOR occurances, then yes.

Well even if you were in the middle of a battle, wouldn't you like to know and act upon the fact that your weapons factory has been completed?

US_of_Alaska wrote:

InvaderZim wrote:

US_of_Alaska wrote:

InvaderZim wrote:

I like RTS games. But I'm terrible at them.

I was actually thinking that we could make it an RTS that closely resembles a TBS. If the game paused every time something was completed in an SC, then it would allow the player to manage their empire more easily. When they selected the next thing for the city to build, or pressed 'play' (a keyboard shortcut would be handy), then the game would start up again. It would make it much easier to handle the hundreds of things going on, and make micromanagement more handleable.

What do you think?

Well, my game pausing every ten seconds would get annoying, but if it were to only alert me of the major, MAJOR occurances, then yes.

Well even if you were in the middle of a battle, wouldn't you like to know and act upon the fact that your weapons factory has been completed?

Well... yes I would! Okay, I guess it would come in handy. I approve.

I've just noticed that i get a lot less flustered in Civilization IV, a turn-based game, than i do in even the most basic RTS games. Age of Empires and Age of Mythology always get me panicked and stressed. I figure that a game on this scale really needs to have a way to slow things down.

US_of_Alaska wrote:

I've just noticed that i get a lot less flustered in Civilization IV, a turn-based game, than i do in even the most basic RTS games. Age of Empires and Age of Mythology always get me panicked and stressed. I figure that a game on this scale really needs to have a way to slow things down.

Wait... turn-based... I always prefer typical RTSes. Gets the reflexes running. Hmm... like you said, if we could make it an RTS that closely resembles a TBS that would be great!



I just don't like how the action has to pause in a TBS. It causes suspense, and it makes it a bit less fun for me.


You see, I like to watch myself strategically crush my enemies.

I definitely think at least the option to have the game pause when different events happen is necessary to make sure that everything is handleable. On a game of this scale, we'll need every tool we can think of to stop the player losing control of their empire.

I agree with you completely. Being such a large and complicated game, we need to be able to control things easily, even the slow clickers who don't use many keyboard shortcuts! But turn based is, of course, boring, and we want movement because it is exciting. P is for pause. That could easily be a handy tip for the slow clickers and slow thinkers.
-Waap.

This is just missing one thing, which would probaboly be a big part of the Nation Editor. I for one would greatly prefer to have the ability to assign goveners to my SCs (How will be determined via Nation Editor I presume) rather than micromanage EVERYTHING. Goveners should have different personalities and political veiws which will affect how they act. Medieval 2, Total War did something similar to what I'm talking about. Certain characters would develop different traits as the game went on, sometimes even changing their name. Ex. "Drunkard: Excessive drinking makes him popular with the crowds, but has effected his mind somewhat. [+1 Happiness, -1 Order]"

If that's not too complex.

I like it, Rex.

Commander Keen wrote:

I like it, Rex.

Alright, I feel safe to continue my thoughts now. :3

Goveners would be chosen through different methods depending on your government. If it was hereditary vassalage, then you'd have no say and it would merely be son gets the rule.

If it were government appointed you be given a list of potentials and choose one.

If it were democratic, you'd be given a list of potentials, and after selecting one, you'd go into... idk... perhaps an intensive advertising campaign in favor of them. It would help significantly, but ultimately it's up to the people to decide.

Sounds good. There might be more conditions on selection, but you probably know this. Nothing to add.

Tenebrarum wrote:

This is just missing one thing, which would probaboly be a big part of the Nation Editor. I for one would greatly prefer to have the ability to assign goveners to my SCs (How will be determined via Nation Editor I presume) rather than micromanage EVERYTHING. Goveners should have different personalities and political veiws which will affect how they act. Medieval 2, Total War did something similar to what I'm talking about. Certain characters would develop different traits as the game went on, sometimes even changing their name. Ex. "Drunkard: Excessive drinking makes him popular with the crowds, but has effected his mind somewhat. [+1 Happiness, -1 Order]"

If that's not too complex.

You've brought this up before and i've agreed with it before.

US_of_Alaska wrote:

Tenebrarum wrote:

This is just missing one thing, which would probaboly be a big part of the Nation Editor. I for one would greatly prefer to have the ability to assign goveners to my SCs (How will be determined via Nation Editor I presume) rather than micromanage EVERYTHING. Goveners should have different personalities and political veiws which will affect how they act. Medieval 2, Total War did something similar to what I'm talking about. Certain characters would develop different traits as the game went on, sometimes even changing their name. Ex. "Drunkard: Excessive drinking makes him popular with the crowds, but has effected his mind somewhat. [+1 Happiness, -1 Order]"

If that's not too complex.

You've brought this up before and i've agreed with it before.

My apologies. I have Executive Function Disorder.

In anycase, good to have it on the new forum?

Tenebrarum wrote:

US_of_Alaska wrote:

You've brought this up before and i've agreed with it before.

My apologies. I have Executive Function Disorder.

In anycase, good to have it on the new forum?

Definitely.

in the hereditary, when there are no successors, a time of chaos might come. And the "quality" of the ruler is also random.

btw, what if we have a ant-like society ?

eumesmo wrote:

in the hereditary, when there are no successors, a time of chaos might come. And the "quality" of the ruler is also random.

Exactly. This is why Henry VIII went through so many wives in an attempt to get a son(It was believed that the female contribution determined gender)

However, the quality of the leader would depend on several factors. Henry Tudor gained power at the end of the Wars of the Roses through a combination of military strength and popular support, so he was rather succesfull. Richard III, his predicecor gained power through an elaborate scheim of murders, lies, and well timed scandals, so he was very clever but extremely unpopular (Both with nobles and the lay people.)

eumesmo wrote:

btw, what if we have a ant-like society ?

Hives function as induviduals. My geuss is you'd have earth-ish systems, only it's different hives instead of induviduals. That's just my imagination though.

The cloestest thing to a succesful hive-mind on Earth is Anonymous. Look them up. It's more spontainious concences than functional system.

Tenebrarum wrote:

eumesmo wrote:

in the hereditary, when there are no successors, a time of chaos might come. And the "quality" of the ruler is also random.

Exactly. This is why Henry VIII went through so many wives in an attempt to get a son(It was believed that the female contribution determined gender)

However, the quality of the leader would depend on several factors. Henry Tudor gained power at the end of the Wars of the Roses through a combination of military strength and popular support, so he was rather succesfull. Richard III, his predicecor gained power through an elaborate scheim of murders, lies, and well timed scandals, so he was very clever but extremely unpopular (Both with nobles and the lay people.)

eumesmo wrote:

btw, what if we have a ant-like society ?

Hives function as induviduals. My geuss is you'd have earth-ish systems, only it's different hives instead of induviduals. That's just my imagination though.

The cloestest thing to a succesful hive-mind on Earth is Anonymous. Look them up. It's more spontainious concences than functional system.

I hear a new thread concerning governors, Rex.

US_of_Alaska wrote:

I hear a new thread concerning governors, Rex.

Your wish is my command

Alright, let's talk about an issue I have noticed with the system.

Now, I don't know for certain, but it feels that most of us have been thinking about SCs like Cities in the Civ games. This is understandable, given the willy-shrivelingly huge size of what we're working on, but there are one or two issues.

Now, in the Civ games, cities were plonked down like the enormus rubber stamp of God. This worked well for them, whose scope was so broad, but we have to deal with multiple levels of interaction. This issue is as such: Though we have no algorithm as of yet, we plan to have one equation that will descide when an SC forms. Now, if an SC is in essence, a city, what defines a city? I won't bore you with the origins of the word, but I that most of you would say that the first cities would be either in the Indus Valley civilization, or the Sumerian City-States.

These cities were only the sive of a couple of modern city-blocks.

Not an issue on he grand scheme, of Civ, where you have to make a city, but if you have no real control over their forming, than an algorithm like this will make SCs popping up like acne on the face of an awkward teenage frog. Each SC needing your attention, even with goveners, each one to be concidered. In America, they'd number in the millions.

My idea is thus: We need some sort of leveling system. If we could track the SC growth to a certain size, than it gets a new name to signify the change(As in, city to metropolis). If enough SCs reach this size, you can have the AI completely take over the smaller ones (If they're small enough they could be ignored entirely, just existing for visuals and org mode) and make the map show only SCs of a certain size or larger.

Discuss.