A Brief Summary of Issues with the Current NE

Subject: A Brief Summary of Issues with the Current NE Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:44 pm

Alright, just a quick post here.

We need to discuss the Culture Tab's flowchart mechanic more-in-depth-ly so we can finish that up and add it to the official concept.

We need to discuss currency in terms of 1 Unit vs. Multiple Units vs. Decimal System.

There are a few issues regarding the interpretation of crime. Unless solved, we'll have several weird situations that will arise if a player goes into org mode post-sapiance. This may be more suited to discussion in the Strat Mode subforum.

Tenebrarum wrote:: Alright, just a quick post here.

We need to discuss the Culture Tab's flowchart mechanic more-in-depth-ly so we can finish that up and add it to the official concept.

We need to discuss currency in terms of 1 Unit vs. Multiple Units vs. Decimal System.

There are a few issues regarding the interpretation of crime. Unless solved, we'll have several weird situations that will arise if a player goes into org mode post-sapiance. This may be more suited to discussion in the Strat Mode subforum.

Okay, what flowchart mechanic?

I don't see why we need to specify anything beyond what resource or TO is the currency.

I think that we can demonstrate crime into Org Mode just using some universal animations like run past, grab object, run away. We can figure out how often this happens through the disorder value of the SC.

US_of_Alaska wrote:: Okay, what flowchart mechanic?

Dude. Remember the longpost I made about the culture tab in the NE? Remember half of it was planning out the life orgs will go through in that culture? Flowchart mechanic.

US_of_Alaska wrote:: I don't see why we need to specify anything beyond what resource or TO is the currency.

Those are defining factors of currency efficiency.

US_of_Alaska wrote:: I think that we can demonstrate crime into Org Mode just using some universal animations like run past, grab object, run away. We can figure out how often this happens through the disorder value of the SC.

What about firearms? Murder? Speeding? Reckless TO use? Streaking?

These are things the player can and will do in org mode.

Tenebrarum wrote:: Dude. Remember the longpost I made about the culture tab in the NE? Remember half of it was planning out the life orgs will go through in that culture? Flowchart mechanic.

I don't remember it at all. The only thing i can remember that's anything like that is your years old one from the Svenolutions forums.

Tenebrarum wrote:: Those are defining factors of currency efficiency.

Yeah...

Tenebrarum wrote:: What about firearms? Murder? Speeding? Reckless TO use? Streaking?

These are things the player can and will do in org mode.

Well killing people or destroying TOs by any means would also be able to be procedurally animated. Are you trying to ask what would be people's reactions to it, and what would happen in reply, like guards or police?

As for the player doing it, i again don't know what you are discussing. Is it about people trying to stop you again?

US_of_Alaska wrote:: I don't remember it at all. The only thing i can remember that's anything like that is your years old one from the Svenolutions forums.

*Sigh*

I didn't want to do this, but you leave me no choice.

Spoiler:

Alright, I think I've figured out how to do this, but it will require a fundimental rethinking of certain parts of the NE. If this is unacceptably complex, too difficult to add at this stage, or merely unneccicary, feel free to say so.

Basically, I have an idea for a culture editor.

The simplest way to understand a culture is to look at an induvidual going through their lives in it. As such, most of the culture editor consists of timelines and calenders.

The timelines detail how an organisms grows. The player adds and subtracts events that mark the life of the being. These events include coming-of-age ceremonies, education, when jobs are taken, marriage/unions, that sort of thing.

Ex.: Birth: Parental Juristiction.
Parental Care: Begins at 2 years, ends at event:[Public Education], End Result: Basic AI improved X%, Worker + Gatherer Specialist options unlocked.
Public Education: Begins at 4 years, Ends at 12 years, End Result: Basic AI improved X%, Literate, Military + Entertainer Specialist options unlocked.
CHOICE
Option 1: Higher Education: Begins at 12 years, Ends at 20 years, End Result: May Become Govener Candidate, Research Specialist option unlocked, Leave Parental Juritiction.
Option 2: Leave parental juristiction: Begins at CHOICE, Ends at Death, End Result: May become Specialist

This list goes on untill death. All things you can add to this list are saved under particular tabs and can be edited depending on what they are, and what catagories they fall under. For example, education could be edited to have multiple levels, as shown above, so that in the case of interuptions of the education, the org. can specialize right away. Education could also be edited to involve, say political propaganda, be class-based or one-to-one, government funded or private tuition. This list goes on.

Now, let's look at each induvidual part, shall we?

Quote :: Birth: Parental Juristiction.

Obviously 'Born' is a term that would have to be changed depending on the organism's reproductive system. However, when an egg, it still can be used in this system. The Juristiction part determines who will be caring for the child, whether it's communal, institutionalized, parental, etc.

Quote :: Parental Care: Begins at 2 years, ends at event:[Public Education], End Result: Basic AI improved X%, Worker + Gatherer Specialist options unlocked.

All events on the timeline with the exception of 'birth' and death, require a Begining trigger, an ending trigger, and a end result. Events will have defult end results, and these can only be edited within a certain degree. For example, Parental Care can only improve basic AI by a fixed amount, and this effect cannot be removed, but you can add the worker + gatherer specialist unlocks as they do not require much education. Adding these however will cause the education to require more time, so as to have the time to learn these extra skills.

Quote :: Public Education: Begins at 4 years, Ends at 12 years, End Result: Basic AI improved X%, Literate, Military + Entertainer Specialist options unlocked.

The most important part here is the effect of the org. becoming literate. All orgs. are classified as either literate or illiterate. Literate orgs. give minuet bonuses to research output, and happiness. They also have the ability to learn on their own certain skills not specifically taught to them in their lives. They also receive an AI bonus. All of this is tied to the amount of writting in your nation. Lots of books, signs, pretty much any writting on a TO, will add to these bonuses. Having very few means that you will see the opposite affects occur in a literate organism.

Quote :: CHOICE
Option 1: Higher Education: Begins at CHOICE, Ends at 20 years, End Result: May Become Govener Candidate, Research Specialist option unlocked, Leave Parental Juristiction.
Option 2: Leave parental juristiction: Begins at CHOICE, Ends at Death, End Result: May become Specialist

Occasionally, the player may add 'choices' these are randomlay selected based on cultural history (Less likely to take an option not present in the past. This disapates over time.) and whether or not the government is encouraging a particular choice. Leaving juristiction can either be an end result, or an event.

Castes unlocks the ability to make multiple timelines such as these. Aristocracy allows the player to select one cast and define it as 'superior' to another, using a basic pyramid.

In addition, you are able to select an over-arching cultural theme. These themes function as basic virtues that promote different ideologies, and have different positive and negative effects. These are chosen early on either by player-actions or selection in the editor. They cannot be changed without a relvolution. Examples include Honor (Sparta, Feudal Japan?), Love (Medieval Europe), Wisdom (Athens, Most Mayan cities), Liberty (America, Post-Cromwell England), etc. Effects will include bonuses and penalties for all SCs, units, and nation-to-nation interactions, as well as speeding up certain researches.

WOW... That's alot. I'm sorry I'm so vague. Discuss?

[/longpost is long]

US_of_Alaska wrote:: Yeah...

Meaning?

US_of_Alaska wrote:: Well killing people or destroying TOs by any means would also be able to be procedurally animated. Are you trying to ask what would be people's reactions to it, and what would happen in reply, like guards or police?

As for the player doing it, i again don't know what you are discussing. Is it about people trying to stop you again?

Yes. Reactions. I mean by player the fact that even if we set up the AI to never do this, the player will do it anyways.

Tenebrarum wrote:: [/longspoiler]

Well i really don't know. I don't know how you imagine setting this out or how it affects the gameplay (in Org Mode, will you be forced to do this because that's what the Culture Tab says? In Strat Mode does it mean more specialists in certain areas?)

Tenebrarum wrote:: Meaning?

Meaning, what is your point? I know that the resource or TO of the currency is defining, i don't know why any more needs to be said on the matter.

Tenebrarum wrote:: Yes. Reactions. I mean by player the fact that even if we set up the AI to never do this, the player will do it anyways.

I imagine we can just have military specialists come onto the scene and 'neutralise' the offender, to whatever degree is acceptable by the personal freedoms slider or something.

US_of_Alaska wrote:: Well i really don't know. I don't know how you imagine setting this out or how it affects the gameplay (in Org Mode, will you be forced to do this because that's what the Culture Tab says? In Strat Mode does it mean more specialists in certain areas?)

In defines how easily the population can enter certain specialist positions, and defines alot of behaivior in org. mode.

US_of_Alaska wrote:: Meaning, what is your point? I know that the resource or TO of the currency is defining, i don't know why any more needs to be said on the matter.

Okay, I made a point in favor of a more complex system. You said Yeah. You didn't expand. I'm confused now.

US_of_Alaska wrote:: I imagine we can just have military specialists come onto the scene and 'neutralise' the offender, to whatever degree is acceptable by the personal freedoms slider or something.

Yes, but we also need to know what is or is not against the law.

Learner Posts : 144 Reputation : 1 Join date : 2010-12-03

I was thinking about this for a while... what about a node-connection network (which would be presented to the player) demonstrating the workings of your nation (on most regards such as currency, culture, etc)
We'd need to think out the elements that would make such node network, but I beleive this would be a very powerful tool to represent the many aspects of a given society.

Tenebrarum wrote:: In defines how easily the population can enter certain specialist positions, and defines alot of behaivior in org. mode.

Okay, well then i think it's a good idea and you should flesh it out. Using things other than examples would be a good start...

Tenebrarum wrote:: Okay, I made a point in favor of a more complex system. You said Yeah. You didn't expand. I'm confused now.

I thought you were talking about the resources or TOs being the foundations, and i said 'Yeah...' as in i don't see what else is needed. Let's just start over.

Tenebrarum wrote:: Yes, but we also need to know what is or is not against the law.

I think for this we can just assume things like injuring/attacking/killing people and damaging/destroying TOs that are not yours is against the law. Other than that, i don't know.

US_of_Alaska wrote:: Okay, well then i think it's a good idea and you should flesh it out. Using things other than examples would be a good start...

Alright, well, I have a few ideas. Will start new thread.

US_of_Alaska wrote:: I thought you were talking about the resources or TOs being the foundations, and i said 'Yeah...' as in i don't see what else is needed. Let's just start over.

Okay, I meant to say that currency efficiency is, to my knowledge, heavily influenced by whether the currency is single-unit (Most in-game currencys), multi-unit (English standard until recently), or decimal system.

US_of_Alaska wrote:: I think for this we can just assume things like injuring/attacking/killing people and damaging/destroying TOs that are not yours is against the law. Other than that, i don't know.

Well let's brainstorm then!

Also, in certain areas it may be appropriate to destroy TOs and attack people, how do we deal with that?