Thrive Game Development
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Thrive Game Development

Development of the evolution game Thrive.
 
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Latest topics
» THIS FORUM IS NOW OBSOLETE
My Evolution System Concept - Page 2 Emptyby NickTheNick Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:26 pm

» To all the people who come here looking for thrive.
My Evolution System Concept - Page 2 Emptyby NickTheNick Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:22 pm

» Build Error Code::Blocks / CMake
My Evolution System Concept - Page 2 Emptyby crovea Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:28 pm

» Hello! I can translate in japanese
My Evolution System Concept - Page 2 Emptyby tjwhale Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:23 pm

» On Leave (Offline thread)
My Evolution System Concept - Page 2 Emptyby NickTheNick Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:20 am

» Devblog #14: A Brave New Forum
My Evolution System Concept - Page 2 Emptyby NickTheNick Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:49 am

» Application for Programmer
My Evolution System Concept - Page 2 Emptyby crovea Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:14 am

» Re-Reapplication
My Evolution System Concept - Page 2 Emptyby The Creator Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:57 pm

» Application (programming)
My Evolution System Concept - Page 2 Emptyby crovea Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:00 am

» Achieving Sapience
My Evolution System Concept - Page 2 Emptyby MitochondriaBox Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:03 pm

» Microbe Stage GDD
My Evolution System Concept - Page 2 Emptyby tjwhale Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:44 pm

» Application for Programmer/ Theorist
My Evolution System Concept - Page 2 Emptyby tjwhale Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:56 am

» Application for a 3D Modeler.
My Evolution System Concept - Page 2 Emptyby Kaiju4u Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:16 am

» Presentation
My Evolution System Concept - Page 2 Emptyby Othithu Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:38 am

» Application of Sorts
My Evolution System Concept - Page 2 Emptyby crovea Sun May 31, 2015 5:06 pm

» want to contribute
My Evolution System Concept - Page 2 Emptyby Renzope Sun May 31, 2015 12:58 pm

» Music List Thread (Post New Themes Here)
My Evolution System Concept - Page 2 Emptyby Oliveriver Thu May 28, 2015 1:06 pm

» Application: English-Spanish translator
My Evolution System Concept - Page 2 Emptyby Renzope Tue May 26, 2015 1:53 pm

» Want to be promoter or project manager
My Evolution System Concept - Page 2 Emptyby TheBudderBros Sun May 24, 2015 9:00 pm

» A new round of Forum Revamps!
My Evolution System Concept - Page 2 Emptyby Oliveriver Wed May 20, 2015 11:32 am


 

 My Evolution System Concept

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~sciocont
caekdaemon
Commander Keen
Noitulove
Smothmoth
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US_of_Alaska
Overall Team Co-Lead
US_of_Alaska


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PostSubject: Re: My Evolution System Concept   My Evolution System Concept - Page 2 EmptyWed Dec 29, 2010 8:19 pm

First off, Bashi never said that we can't create an Auto-Evo. He said that we cannot make the game create an organism from scratch using Auto-Evo. The last two pages of the "Auto-Evo is dead" thread is pretty much dedicated to discussion on this. We can change organisms that already exist. Therefore, by providing template organisms for each biome or climate niche, we can use an automatic evolution algorithm to make the game really dynamic.

I think you've done alright to come up with a system for non-player controlled organisms, but it all feels too gamey for me. I'll never be happy with any points system. End of story. You say we need to avoid realism here, but this is the one place we need to strive for it most. This is what makes this game great, the idea that there will be a realistic game about evolution. Selecting mutations, i can live with. It's somewhat scientific. Mutation Points are not.
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~sciocont
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PostSubject: Re: My Evolution System Concept   My Evolution System Concept - Page 2 EmptyWed Dec 29, 2010 8:33 pm

US_of_Alaska wrote:
First off, Bashi never said that we can't create an Auto-Evo. He said that we cannot make the game create an organism from scratch using Auto-Evo. The last two pages of the "Auto-Evo is dead" thread is pretty much dedicated to discussion on this. We can change organisms that already exist. Therefore, by providing template organisms for each biome or climate niche, we can use an automatic evolution algorithm to make the game really dynamic.

I think you've done alright to come up with a system for non-player controlled organisms, but it all feels too gamey for me. I'll never be happy with any points system. End of story. You say we need to avoid realism here, but this is the one place we need to strive for it most. This is what makes this game great, the idea that there will be a realistic game about evolution. Selecting mutations, i can live with. It's somewhat scientific. Mutation Points are not.
I've talked to him about it, and we've devised a better system for playr evolution based off of this.
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Smothmoth
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PostSubject: Re: My Evolution System Concept   My Evolution System Concept - Page 2 EmptyWed Dec 29, 2010 8:39 pm

Yes, and we also talked about NPC Evolution, which has floored all development. My opinion on the matter is to put it on the back-burner for now, focus on making the game playable.

Once we have a playable game, we are going to attract attention. This will draw in fresh talent and ideas, with this we can hopefully devise an NPC Evolution system that satisfies everyone.

And I'll go ahead an revise my earlier posts based on what we devised.
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Commander Keen
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PostSubject: Re: My Evolution System Concept   My Evolution System Concept - Page 2 EmptyWed Dec 29, 2010 8:54 pm

Smothmoth wrote:
My opinion on the matter is to put it on the back-burner for now, focus on making the game playable.

Fully agree, however, Bashi once said he will need to base the engine architecture on the AutoEvo if there is to be any. If this has changed, that's great!
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Smothmoth
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PostSubject: Re: My Evolution System Concept   My Evolution System Concept - Page 2 EmptyWed Dec 29, 2010 9:01 pm

I'm pretty sure that it was clearly stated Auto-Evo, in the sense of realistically simulated evolution, simply isn't happening.

We need to move on and focus on making a playable game, or this project is going to fall apart over a lack of progress.
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Pezzalis
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PostSubject: Re: My Evolution System Concept   My Evolution System Concept - Page 2 EmptyWed Dec 29, 2010 9:26 pm

I think so far this concept sounds good, but I think it is missing quite a major part of what we have been planning. Cause and effect.

I think a major part of Thrive is seeing your species evolve because of what happened to you in game play. For example if you were killed by the crushing jaw of another organism then your next generation will have a tougher epidermis. If you were out-swum and consequently eaten then your next generation will be faster at swimming (Longer fins, more streamline etc).

We need to know what mutations are available for species and how they can be attained.

Now we have vaguely determined more or less how you will become a certain phylum IE assimilate lots of heat eaters in cell stage and you will be Thermosynthetic.

Somehow (TBD) your multicellular colony will become a base creature depending on the phylum/kingdom etc you are in (Which is not chosen by the player but is chosen by cause and effect)

No heres my concept for these base creatures, and how they effect evolution.

Spoiler:

If this pseudo-Darwinian come Lamarckian thing is what we are going for we will need to determine all possible mutations each phyla could possibly evolve to.

Ta
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Smothmoth
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PostSubject: Re: My Evolution System Concept   My Evolution System Concept - Page 2 EmptyWed Dec 29, 2010 9:40 pm

Pezzalis wrote:
I think so far this concept sounds good, but I think it is missing quite a major part of what we have been planning. Cause and effect.

I think a major part of Thrive is seeing your species evolve because of what happened to you in game play. For example if you were killed by the crushing jaw of another organism then your next generation will have a tougher epidermis. If you were out-swum and consequently eaten then your next generation will be faster at swimming (Longer fins, more streamline etc).

This is Lamarckian evolution, based on what I've read here it has also been denounced as to complex.

While it seems simpler than Darwinian evolution, it would require every action possible being mapped out and given an attribute that improves the species.

Also, it doesn't make any sense for members of the species that were killed to impact the next generation, how would they pass anything on?


Pezzalis wrote:

Now we have vaguely determined more or less how you will become a certain phylum IE assimilate lots of heat eaters in cell stage and you will be Thermosynthetic.

Somehow (TBD) your multicellular colony will become a base creature depending on the phylum/kingdom etc you are in (Which is not chosen by the player but is chosen by cause and effect)

I haven't seen anything like this in my time lurking here, and all of the current concepts for evolution were basically just thrown out the window recently.

On Phyla, during my talk with ~sciocont he told me phyla weren't coming into play, as they are seen as limiting.
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US_of_Alaska
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PostSubject: Re: My Evolution System Concept   My Evolution System Concept - Page 2 EmptyFri Dec 31, 2010 9:21 pm

Smothmoth wrote:
This is Lamarckian evolution, based on what I've read here it has also been denounced as to complex.

While it seems simpler than Darwinian evolution, it would require every action possible being mapped out and given an attribute that improves the species.

Also, it doesn't make any sense for members of the species that were killed to impact the next generation, how would they pass anything on?

I haven't seen anything like this in my time lurking here, and all of the current concepts for evolution were basically just thrown out the window recently.

On Phyla, during my talk with ~sciocont he told me phyla weren't coming into play, as they are seen as limiting.
Alright, well the thing is that dead things don't pass their genes on, therefore everything that isn't them will. This means that the faster swimming ones will pass on their genes. Make sense? And while this is Darwinian Evolution and too difficult to program, we do need to represent it somehow.

And i'm also against implementing any sort of calssification system for anything.
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