New Research Tree Concept

I've already done some work on converting the current document, for the example, I can reorganize it to be in a format similar to the current Research Tree document.

Let me know if I should start on that.

The main concern I have is the research web's ingame readability. While I have seen most sorts of tech trees in games, I've seen such a web only once, and it wasn't working well. Could you please post some examples of how it would look in the game?

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With the current tree, everything is interconnected, which is the problem. You have to research 100% of the Researches to reach the end. That means there is no technological diversity, as every civilization would be going through the same linear tree.

In that case, it doesn't matter if it's a tree, web, or sphere, but what researches we have and how are they connected. Right now, most of the researches are those that allowed technology to move forward. You can't advance much without the wheel, mathematics or engines. There would have to be a lot more smaller researches that don't lead to anything (or any new branches). That's basically the Inventions, right?

Commander Keen wrote:

The main concern I have is the research web's ingame readability. While I have seen most sorts of tech trees in games, I've seen such a web only once, and it wasn't working well. Could you please post some examples of how it would look in the game?

Yes, if we don't lay it out right a tech-web could look really confusing. I've never really seen one used before though, could you tell me which game you saw one in?

Commander Keen wrote:

In that case, it doesn't matter if it's a tree, web, or sphere, but what researches we have and how are they connected. Right now, most of the researches are those that allowed technology to move forward. You can't advance much without the wheel, mathematics or engines. There would have to be a lot more smaller researches that don't lead to anything (or any new branches). That's basically the Inventions, right?

Yes, you wouldn't get very far engineering wise if you never invent the wheel, but it wouldn't prevent you from developing philosophy. This is the flaw with the current tree, not researching something prevents you from getting completely unrelated researches that show up farther down the line.

And Yes, Inventions are basically minor researches that don't deserve their own branch.

Ok, I'm understanding this more and more. And I'm really liking it. remember, as keen said, it doesn't matter what shape it takes, only the connections matter.

~sciocont wrote:

Ok, I'm understanding this more and more. And I'm really liking it. remember, as keen said, it doesn't matter what shape it takes, only the connections matter.

Well, shape matters to some extent, since we cannot show a tree easily in web format. I'd suggest a blend of tech cone and web, specifically expanded and designed to fit the shape. And can someone please give me a valid link to Alaska's tech tree?

Darkgamma wrote:

can someone please give me a valid link to Alaska's tech tree?

Here

Finally. Thank you!

Darkgamma wrote:

~sciocont wrote:

Ok, I'm understanding this more and more. And I'm really liking it. remember, as keen said, it doesn't matter what shape it takes, only the connections matter.

Well, shape matters to some extent, since we cannot show a tree easily in web format. I'd suggest a blend of tech cone and web, specifically expanded and designed to fit the shape. And can someone please give me a valid link to Alaska's tech tree?

Shape only really matters in visualization, not in how it actually works. You're right that it would be hard to navigatte this in 2D

Okay, so I have done some thinking and come to the conclusion that this concept is absolutely excelent, allowing for truly unique and non-terran paths to ascention that will make for some absolutely beautifully alien races.

However, there is but one issue. There are many researches that cross over onto different sections of this, and would be nessicary for any number of advances. For example, the Scientific Method is an advance made in the Reasoning Branch fairly early on, but it is nessicary for late game advances in Interaction Branch.

Solutions?

Also, I actually rather like the organization of the Tech Ages, but feel that they are in fact rather useless in practice. We need only break up the Space Stage on the forum into a couple different stages and we should be good.

Tenebrarum wrote:

Okay, so I have done some thinking and come to the conclusion that this concept is absolutely excelent, allowing for truly unique and non-terran paths to ascention that will make for some absolutely beautifully alien races.

That was the idea, it would be very boring to have every alien civilization you run into be using the exact same technologies you did.

Tenebrarum wrote:

However, there is but one issue. There are many researches that cross over onto different sections of this, and would be nessicary for any number of advances. For example, the Scientific Method is an advance made in the Reasoning Branch fairly early on, but it is nessicary for late game advances in Interaction Branch.

Solutions?

I don't really think this is a problem, there would be some discoveries that are universal, and these would usually be major ones that have a branch and aren't a random invention. If a civilization doesn't get one of these, too bad for them. We have many tribal societies here on earth still, in game terms you could say they didn't make one of these universal discoveries. I don't see any problem with simulating this, its not like the player is going to skip on something like the scientific method.

Tenebrarum wrote:

Also, I actually rather like the organization of the Tech Ages, but feel that they are in fact rather useless in practice. We need only break up the Space Stage on the forum into a couple different stages and we should be good.

Like I said, its only a way of organizing the tree visually, I like having things broken into categories like that. If you want it organized differently, there should be other options.

Smothmoth wrote:

I don't really think this is a problem, there would be some discoveries that are universal, and these would usually be major ones that have a branch and aren't a random invention. If a civilization doesn't get one of these, too bad for them. We have many tribal societies here on earth still, in game terms you could say they didn't make one of these universal discoveries. I don't see any problem with simulating this, its not like the player is going to skip on something like the scientific method.

Okay, so certain major advancement can in fact cross branches?

Also, your example isn't very good, simply because most tribes didn't progress very much at all. It wasn't a missed major one, it was lack of nessecity to advance and therefor no advancement was made.

Smothmoth wrote:

Like I said, its only a way of organizing the tree visually, I like having things broken into categories like that. If you want it organized differently, there should be other options.

Nevermind.

Tenebrarum wrote:

Okay, so certain major advancement can in fact cross branches?

Yes, sorry if I didn't make this clear. For example, the Reasoning derived branch of Physics would be required to invent Siege Equipment and the like which is Interaction derived.