Research Web

Were not going to dictate the research based on ours right. I believe the steam engine could possibly be made before something like gunpowder. Perhaps gunpowder isn't there at all due to not having the correct materials to make it.

Falthron wrote:

Were not going to dictate the research based on ours right. I believe the steam engine could possibly be made before something like gunpowder. Perhaps gunpowder isn't there at all due to not having the correct materials to make it.

Please read the web. Gunpowder is not a requisite for Steam Power.

US_of_Alaska wrote:

Falthron wrote:

Were not going to dictate the research based on ours right. I believe the steam engine could possibly be made before something like gunpowder. Perhaps gunpowder isn't there at all due to not having the correct materials to make it.

Please read the web. Gunpowder is not a requisite for Steam Power.

I meant that as an example, in the web would there be a certain prereq. to gain a new "tier". Because someone may not advance into something like others do. Like what would the reqs of steam engine be? I see that its part of the scientific method and such, but what about material. Wood we require certain other tech like metallurgy or can we assume that stone and wood steam engines can be built? Even if it never happened here? Again this is an example. Also, what happens when two of these merge? What if the to turn the turbines of an electric motor they use technology from the steam engine? Will that be exclusively electric or would we consider that steam powered?

Falthron wrote:

US_of_Alaska wrote:

Falthron wrote:

Were not going to dictate the research based on ours right. I believe the steam engine could possibly be made before something like gunpowder. Perhaps gunpowder isn't there at all due to not having the correct materials to make it.

Please read the web. Gunpowder is not a requisite for Steam Power.

I meant that as an example, in the web would there be a certain prereq. to gain a new "tier". Because someone may not advance into something like others do. Like what would the reqs of steam engine be? I see that its part of the scientific method and such, but what about material. Wood we require certain other tech like metallurgy or can we assume that stone and wood steam engines can be built? Even if it never happened here? Again this is an example. Also, what happens when two of these merge? What if the to turn the turbines of an electric motor they use technology from the steam engine? Will that be exclusively electric or would we consider that steam powered?

Whether or not the player can make the TO efficiently out of materials they have isn't relevant to whether they can research the research. Just remember that the player will gain research with triggers, so having and using the materials will accelerate the research a lot. Like you said, i'm sure that a race could make a stone steam engine.

The newest update of the Research and Inventions List

The corresponding Research Web

Thoughts?

US_of_Alaska wrote:

The newest update of the Research and Inventions List

The corresponding Research Web

Thoughts?

We're having education after mathematics and literature?
Chemistry to scientific method is all well and good, but you could probably realistically get there by basic physics or basic biology (botany, 'natural science' and breeding plants/animals.)
We have ecology, which is good.

To oral tradition, might be nice if the description was less specifically musical - long form epic poetry is distinguishable from the musical accompaniement, and there's plenty of distinction between a ballad and the odyssey. And if it wasn't specifically musical or poetic, we could fit myths, legends and origin stories in there as well. Much neater.

Why is weather under philosophy?

Minor quibble with Fiction (Arts spawned may be written) but it's a nitpick that probably only bothers me. Making sure to broaden the idea of oral tradition is more important.

As long as religious freedom is about ritual and practice, not belief or discussion, we're good on the religious section.

Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote:

We're having education after mathematics and literature?
Chemistry to scientific method is all well and good, but you could probably realistically get there by basic physics or basic biology (botany, 'natural science' and breeding plants/animals.)
We have ecology, which is good.

This is a sort of formal education, with structure programs. You can see that we already have an academy as well as a Lectern FP under philosophy that allow for Ancient Greek style learning, but this research is roughly parallel to universities on Earth. That is, it's purpose is to educate, rather than discuss.

Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote:

To oral tradition, might be nice if the description was less specifically musical - long form epic poetry is distinguishable from the musical accompaniement, and there's plenty of distinction between a ballad and the odyssey. And if it wasn't specifically musical or poetic, we could fit myths, legends and origin stories in there as well. Much neater.

Myths/Legends sound like a good property for an art to have, thanks for the idea.

Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote:

Why is weather under philosophy?

Because that's what the Rise of Mankind Tech Tree had it under. But i think it makes sense. It's Weather Lore, which is essentially Weather Philosophy anyways. And realistically we could have any study of anything coming from Philosophy.

Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote:

Minor quibble with Fiction (Arts spawned may be written) but it's a nitpick that probably only bothers me. Making sure to broaden the idea of oral tradition is more important.

Remember that arts are all Arbitrary Mechanics, and these are simply properties that the arts may have. To take your above example, Epic Poetry would be a name for an art with the properties Written and Myths/Legends.

Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote:

As long as religious freedom is about ritual and practice, not belief or discussion, we're good on the religious section.

From the Nation Editor Wiki:

Quote :

Religious Freedoms are the ability to practice whatever religions you wish. The ability to do this is measured in the slider. At a lower value, the bonuses from the state religion will be increased (if no state then +science will be given) and unhappiness and disorder from other religions increased. For higher settings the opposite is true. Religions other than your state will not generate unhappiness or disorder, but bonuses from your state religion will be reduced.

US_of_Alaska wrote:

Longpost.

Okay, gottem.

But still, I think, therefore Thor strikes you with lightning? I don't have a constructive suggestion for where to put it, though.

Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote:

But still, I think, therefore Thor strikes you with lightning? I don't have a constructive suggestion for where to put it, though.

It makes sense to me. Think of it as a precursor to Meteorology, which would have come from Philosophy of Weather.

US_of_Alaska wrote:

Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote:

But still, I think, therefore Thor strikes you with lightning? I don't have a constructive suggestion for where to put it, though.

It makes sense to me. Think of it as a precursor to Meteorology, which would have come from Philosophy of Weather.

So long as it's playable, I say go for it.

US_of_Alaska wrote:

The newest update of the Research and Inventions List

The corresponding Research Web

Thoughts?

What do dark matter boosters actually do? They are obtained with the 'interstellar travel' research howver the three types of interstellar travel seem to be researched later.

To improve it, you could add a short description of what each FP does to the research and inventions list.

Holomanga wrote:

What do dark matter boosters actually do? They are obtained with the 'interstellar travel' research howver the three types of interstellar travel seem to be researched later.

To improve it, you could add a short description of what each FP does to the research and inventions list.

A dark matter booster would be similar to a top end solid state booster, so something like 2 weeks from here to Mars distance, but the fuel would be practically self-replenishing because it would be extracted from the space it travels through.

That document is long enough as it is :p I will be making an FP document soon enough, but i would really like to be able to add tables to the wiki and have all this up on there and linkable... Hrm...

I can't really say I like the futuristic part of the tech tree, but I don't have time to come with a replacement, due to life and the cell prototype. We can fix it anytime later, though.

Also, some of the researches in the list seem to be mixed up with researches that should be available way earlier.

Commander Keen wrote:

I can't really say I like the futuristic part of the tech tree, but I don't have time to come with a replacement, due to life and the cell prototype. We can fix it anytime later, though.

Also, some of the researches in the list seem to be mixed up with researches that should be available way earlier.

Do you mean Researches or Inventions? Because Inventions are simply under the Research they make the most sense to be under, not the order in which humans discovered them.

I apologize if this is already included in the research web, but im on a mobile device so i cant view it, and i wont be on a computer for a while. I wouldve provided the link to the thread i said this on, but im not allowed, so ill just quote myself.

"Apologies for going off tangent, but I just got an idea for the tech tree, and I didn't want to start a whole new thread for it. Will there be a minimap in the game? If there is, we should have techs that correspond with improving the minimap, with the first of the techs enabling the minimap in the first place. I Was thinking a tech like tracking, such as what hunters use to track game. Through the process of hunting, hunters must have learned and even mentally mapped out the landscape and taught it to their apprentices. This tech, tracking, would thus enable a minimap (before this there would be no minimap), but it would be a very simple minimap, only showing land and water formations. there would be no dots on the minimap showing where you our your units are, you will have to your location in relation to nearby land and water for ation to estimate where you are.

The next tech in line would be cartography, which would be the equivalent of your society starting to study the land and make maps of it, such as Ptolemy's map of the world. This would add the option to open up the minimap and place landmarks and name them. That way you are literally mapping out the land as you explore, since it doesnt automatically update onto your minimap, you actually have to observe it in the game, observe where it is in relation to nearby landmarks, and then estimate as you place it on the map. Then, as I mentioned before, you name it, and the name shows up on the minimap (an idea i got from civilization 4). However, you and your units still do not show up on the minimap, you will have to use the landmarks you placed on the map as reference points to estimate your position.

The last tech would be GPS. GPS would enable your map to automatically update as you explore. For example, when you encounter a mountain, you dont have to place it manually on your map, the GPS automatically places it in the correct position. This is the equivalent of the regular minimap found in most games. Another huge advantage of GPS would be that there will be dots showing the precise location of you and/or your units.

I havent thought of how to extrapolate this into the futuristic phases of the game, but I was thinking there would be some tech such as Interstellar/Galactic/Stellar Cartography/Mapping that would be necessary for enabling a minimap in space."

Could you implement this?

NickTheNick wrote:

I apologize if this is already included in the research web, but im on a mobile device so i cant view it, and i wont be on a computer for a while. I wouldve provided the link to the thread i said this on, but im not allowed, so ill just quote myself.

"Apologies for going off tangent, but I just got an idea for the tech tree, and I didn't want to start a whole new thread for it. Will there be a minimap in the game? If there is, we should have techs that correspond with improving the minimap, with the first of the techs enabling the minimap in the first place. I Was thinking a tech like tracking, such as what hunters use to track game. Through the process of hunting, hunters must have learned and even mentally mapped out the landscape and taught it to their apprentices. This tech, tracking, would thus enable a minimap (before this there would be no minimap), but it would be a very simple minimap, only showing land and water formations. there would be no dots on the minimap showing where you our your units are, you will have to your location in relation to nearby land and water for ation to estimate where you are.

The next tech in line would be cartography, which would be the equivalent of your society starting to study the land and make maps of it, such as Ptolemy's map of the world. This would add the option to open up the minimap and place landmarks and name them. That way you are literally mapping out the land as you explore, since it doesnt automatically update onto your minimap, you actually have to observe it in the game, observe where it is in relation to nearby landmarks, and then estimate as you place it on the map. Then, as I mentioned before, you name it, and the name shows up on the minimap (an idea i got from civilization 4). However, you and your units still do not show up on the minimap, you will have to use the landmarks you placed on the map as reference points to estimate your position.

The last tech would be GPS. GPS would enable your map to automatically update as you explore. For example, when you encounter a mountain, you dont have to place it manually on your map, the GPS automatically places it in the correct position. This is the equivalent of the regular minimap found in most games. Another huge advantage of GPS would be that there will be dots showing the precise location of you and/or your units.

I havent thought of how to extrapolate this into the futuristic phases of the game, but I was thinking there would be some tech such as Interstellar/Galactic/Stellar Cartography/Mapping that would be necessary for enabling a minimap in space."

Could you implement this?

From memory there is a minimap in Org Mode that deteriorates as memory fades. I don't think transferring this over to Strat Mode should be too tricky (y)

I know we have the ability to mark borders in Cartography, but i will have a look at the Research Tree with these suggestions in mind and see what i can do.

Thanks Alaska. and also, if you can, please try to include the fact that you only show up as dots on the minimap once you have GPS. thats how maps have worked for all of history. This way the player must learn to use relative location to navigate themself before global positioning.

NickTheNick wrote:

Thanks Alaska. and also, if you can, please try to include the fact that you only show up as dots on the minimap once you have GPS. thats how maps have worked for all of history. This way the player must learn to use relative location to navigate themself before global positioning.

Okay, the thing with the minimap is that it is supposed to show the things that the character can sense and the player can't. Things like noises behind you, and enemies that they can smell. This is why i'm not comfortable with having a map that you can't see yourself and immediate enemies on. Anything that your people can sense, you should be able to. That's how the character to player thing works. We can't be expected to look at every single organism we are controlling and look through all it's sight at all times. This is a simple gameplay thing.

US_of_Alaska wrote:

Okay, the thing with the minimap is that it is supposed to show the things that the character can sense and the player can't. Things like noises behind you, and enemies that they can smell. This is why i'm not comfortable with having a map that you can't see yourself and immediate enemies on. Anything that your people can sense, you should be able to. That's how the character to player thing works. We can't be expected to look at every single organism we are controlling and look through all it's sight at all times. This is a simple gameplay thing.

Sorry, I meant to specify that I intended this for strategy mode only, where the player does not control an individual organism and is not dependent on it's senses. I meant that the minimap in strategy mode not show dots of specific individuals until GPS was discovered, to give the teach GPS some meaning. I was thinking that before dots are unlocked there are just sort of coloured highlights or maybe dots that only update every 15 seconds, whereas GPS would provide smooth dots that are updated constantly to show an accurate position at all times. However, if this is unreasonable or impractical to implement, then I take back my suggestion and am fine with the regular method.

Also, i would like to ask, does anyone else have a problem downloading the research web pdf in the OP? I click download and the page just refreshes, nothing more.

NickTheNick wrote:

Also, i would like to ask, does anyone else have a problem downloading the research web pdf in the OP? I click download and the page just refreshes, nothing more.

It works for me.