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| | Finalizing Aware Concept | |
|
+6Grep42 The Uteen US_of_Alaska Commander Keen ~sciocont Tenebrarum 10 posters | |
Author | Message |
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Tenebrarum Society Team Lead
Posts : 1179 Reputation : 32 Join date : 2010-10-01 Age : 30 Location : ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
| Subject: Finalizing Aware Concept Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:28 pm | |
| WARING! INCOMING LONGPOST!Because some of us, like myself, can neither program, model, or make decent texture, we should probably start organizing the gelatinous mass that is the Aware stage concept. For those that are confused, aware is the stage most similar to Spore's Creature stage, where you controll a single macroscopic organism and run around eating things. While not specified exactly, so as to allow wiggle room for our glorious programmers, it's been agreed that once you reach a colony of several hundred cells you advance from the Multicellular Stage to the Aware Stage. This list is incomplete and will be updated as nessicary. Please provide feedback. - Spoiler:
Begining:
The stage begins simply enough. If possible, we want to equate your Multicellular colony to an OE made template organism, and automatically provide the player with that. If this is not possible, a selection of template organisms will be given and the player will be allowed to choose one. Note that the player CANNOT play as an autotrophe, or at least not progress to sentience if they do play as one.
The player will universally start out as an aquatic organism. Depth or biome is still to be determined. Diet is still TBD, and will possibly vary between template orgs.
Movement Controls:
Aquatic controls will use the mouse to aim, (with a central retical) and WASD to move along that axis. SPACE will cause the player to move up, and CTRL to move the player down. SHIFT will cause the player to go into a sprint, which will move them significantly faster but drain stamina.
Terrestrial controls will use the mouse to aim, (with a central retical) and WASD to move along that axis. SPACE will cause the player to jump (if possible), and CTRL will cause the player to crouch (if possible). SHIFT will cause the player to go into a sprint, which will move them significantly faster but drain stamina.
Arial controls will need to be split into multiple types, depending on possible movements.
If the player can hover, like a bee or a Humming Bird, controls will use the mouse to aim, (with a central retical) and WASD to move along that axis. SPACE will cause the player to move up, and CTRL to move the player down.
If the player flys like a bird or bat, using flapping wings, controls will use the mouse to aim, (with a central retical) and WASD to move along that axis. SPACE will cause the player to flap their wings, and holding down space will cause a continual flap. Flaping causes the player to move up slightly, a la Spore. CTRL will cause the player to pull their wings closer to the body, preventing glide and making them fall faster. If the player does nothing, they will glide with wings out-streached.
Other modes of locomotion may need to be discussed.
Gameplay:
The primary goal of Aware Stage is survival. The player will have certain requirements they need to fill in order to survive, such as nutrition, hydration, and energy. These will be represented by shards on the bottom right corner of the screen, which will change colour, pulse, and throb depending on the need.
Nutrition will steadily decrease over time, and give the player energy and growth. More strenous actions will cause the meter to drop faster. If the player eats, then the meter will rise up. The rate of drop can be reduced by developing more efficient digestive systems. The nutrition level will also reflect directly on the player's organism through fat stores that grow and shrink accordingly. If the meter reaches zero, the player will begin to starve, which reduces muscle streangth and damages health.
Hydration will steadily decrease over time. If the player drinks, than the meter rises. The rate of drop can my reduced my developing more efficient digestive and/or excretion systems. If the meter reaches zero, the player will become dehydrated, which significantly damages health and reduces muscle strength.
Energy will steadily decrease over time. The player can recharge this by sleeping. The rate of drop can be reduced by developing more efficient respitory and/or circulatory systems. If the meter reaches zero, the player will pass out for long enough to recharge 1/4 of their stamina shard. They will be very vulnerable in the meantime though, so passing out is never a good thing.
Provided the player's energy levels are high enough, if on land or in water they will be able to go into a sprint, which reduces stamina. Stamina is a very small meter, but can be upgraded by developing more effecient respitory, circulatory, or muscular systems. In addition to sprinting, nearly every strenous action will cause the meter to drop. As stamina recharges, it siphons away energy to refuel. As Energy can be regained only by sleeping, you will naturally want to use as little Stamina as possible to conserve your energy.
The player will have the ability to examine anything in the world by pressing E when next to it. When examining, the camera will focus on the object and the player will become translucent. Next to the object being examined, a shard will appear giving some basic information about the object, depending on the player's sensors. Within the shard a small orb will serve as a visual short-hand for some attributes, like texture, weight, and heat.
Combat:
Okay, so looking back on what we and Bashi had been tossing around when he was still around, most of our animations will probably need to be a combination of premade and context based.
So what I think we might be able to do is identify a number of points on the body (Exposed hardness at the end of an appendage) as a weapon. The game can then try a number of directional attack animations with the weapons.
Mouths will need to be another matter. I'd say that if the game detects the weapon's appendage as being the very front of the bezier curve that makes up the spine in vertebrates or worm-body in invertebrates (minus arthropods), the only directional attack that can be made is forward, preventing awkward attempts at directional attacks with the face. This will make it slightly more difficult for some of the more 'alien' designs, but in the long run I think it will look better.
Now, if a joint is detected at the base of two weapons or weapon arrays, the computer will try and animate these to function as a 'grip weapon.' Wolf mouths, lobster claws, raptor feet and the like would fall under this catagory. A grip weapon is not used in a quick strike, but to hold onto prey and keep it still as it dies. This is where animations come in again.
Grip weapons will have a basic, universal array of animations that are not context based, however, they will get contextual animations as well. The game will identify all the prey items for a certain species in a certain biome anyway, and can then run through animations of predators with grip weapons actively attacking the prey in a realistic manner, with more accurate model contact and a long period of grip. Predators will instinctively go for the most vulnerable parts of a prey item's body, ergo the neck for most Earth fauna. (This may need to be changed to allow crocodile style ambushes however) These animation attacks will be the goal most predators have in mind, as they will do massive damage, and count as a successful lunge/ponce/etc would for an Earthly predator.
Now, on the player's side of things, players will be informed of all weapons on their organism once they have completed their direct-edits, by highlighting the area the game has identified as a weapon. The player can mark any of these as not counting as a weapon, but may not mark areas for weaponization themselves. They can then assign the different weapons to either different hotkeys or the mouse wheel, which will cycle through them when turned.
In game, a selected weapon will have it's 'portrait' at the bottom right of the HUD. This will merely be a picture of the highlighted area. If the weapon requires any chemicals to function, such as venom or a ranged weapon (which need to be discussed), there will be an 'ammo counter' next to the protrait. These will be the same in the society stages, but regenerating the 'ammo counter' in Aware stage will consist either of simply waiting if the materials are naturally produced by the organism, or collecting required resource combinations if they are not.
Attacks will be a simple mouse-click affair. Directional attacks will work as the do in the following stages, click to ready the weapon, and release to attack. Directions will be detected through mouse movements. I'm not sure how to deal with awkwardly placed weapons though, like tail-clubs.
Grip attacks will require the player to be within a certain vicinity of the area of the prey's anatomy they wish to attack. This encourages lunges and pounces.
Camoflauge will take a role in-game, with each ecosystem/biome having a number of areas that the game will record the basic colors and patterns of, in a number of different sensory patterns. The game will analyse the various inhabitants of said biomes and compare them to the background patterns it did earlier, and give each a visibility rating that will determine the likelyhood of their being detected. As with most games, crouching will likely be the shorthand for sneaking.
Vemon and poison will we included in-game, though the use of glands that can evolve or simply be placed in the OE.
Mating:
Mating behaiviors will vary depending on players reproductive forms. Some species may develope a distinctive mating call. Many will compete for mating rights, in everything from combat to dances. If the player's species instinctively goes someplace to mate at a certain time, the player will be informed of this when the time arrives, and guided to the mating grounds. They will also be informed of mating behaviors and any competing they will have to do.
Intelligence:
The only way to prgress into the Awakening Stage of the game is to develop sentience/sapience. This is does by earning intelligence.
Early on, the best way to earn intelligence will be to hunt. Not merely eating meat will do, the player will have to kill it themselves. Ambushes will give a small reward, chasing down the prey a medium reward, and pack hunting will give a large reward.
Later on, the player will learn to manipulate their environment. Simply picking up a stick will give a small reward the first few times it's done. Later on the player will be pushing to actively use objects in they're world to solve problems, like throwing rocks at predators or using sticks to dig.
A constant throughout the game will be exploration. Finding new places and resources will always provide the player with intelligence.
Intelligence may or may not be treated as a skill-tree, allowing the player to pick and choose various behaviors and psychological traits to improve their chances of survival. This would allow for increased complexity and realism in cultural development in later stages.
Endgame:
Once the player reaches a certain level of intelligence, they will be promted to perform a certain task. This may be to create a fire, a shelter, or a complex tool like an axe or spear. This action will serve as a "final boss" of sorts, testing the player's skills and problem-solving capabilities. when successfully completed, the player will be able to progress to the awakening stage.
Last edited by Tenebrarum on Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:52 pm; edited 3 times in total | |
| | | ~sciocont Overall Team Lead
Posts : 3406 Reputation : 138 Join date : 2010-07-06
| Subject: Re: Finalizing Aware Concept Thu Aug 18, 2011 5:18 pm | |
| | |
| | | Commander Keen Industrial Team Lead
Posts : 1123 Reputation : 36 Join date : 2010-07-23 Location : Czech Republic (not that anyone would know where it is...)
| Subject: Re: Finalizing Aware Concept Thu Aug 18, 2011 5:27 pm | |
| - Quote :
- If the player can hover, like a bee or a Humming Bird, controls will use the mouse to aim, (with a central retical) and WASD to move along that axis. SPACE will cause the player to move up, and CTRL to move the player down.
Just tried this layout on an arcade heli game, as the action most probably resembles that of flying organisms (they move quickly as they are rather small) and I must say it turned out to be horribe. The CTRL get's in the way too often and SPACE is too clumsy to be used as a height control. What about having WSAD as horizontal moving, QE as ascend/descend and moving the Examine function to R/T/RMB? - Quote :
- Energy will steadily decrease over time. More strenous actions will cause the meter to drop faster. The player can recharge this by sleeping or simply not moving, depending on size and complexity. The rate of drop can be reduced by developing more efficient respitory and/or circulatory systems. If the meter reaches zero, the player will pass out for a few minuets.
Provided the player's rest level are high enough, if on land or in water they will be able to go into a sprint, which reduces stamina. Stamina is a very small meter, but can be upgraded by developing more effecient respitory, circulatory, or muscular systems. I have had a similar system in mind for a while. What I don't like on your interpretation though is that standing still can increase Energy as well, thus allowing avoiding sleeping just by staying still, and that the stamina is only used on running and has seemingly no effect on Energy. Let's see if I can improve it: Instead of actions draining Energy directly, they would drain Stamina. Every action would drain stamina, but different amounts of stamina would be drained for different tasks, some actions would even drain stamina slower than it regenerates (walking). Stamina would deplete fast, but also regenerate pretty quickly. If you run out of stamina, you can't perform any actions (forcing you to stop for until it regenerates). However, recharging Stamina would use up Energy. The more Stamina you use, the more Energy is drained. As Energy can be regained only by sleeping, you will naturally want to use as little Stamina as possible to conserve your energy. If you run out of Energy, you will pass out (forced sleep) for about enough time to regenerate 1/4 of your stamina shard. You will be very vulnerable in the meantime though, so passing out is never a good thing. Does anyone know of anything I could make a little prototype in? Everything I know is too Windows centered. - Quote :
- As with most games, crouching will likely be the shorthand for sneaking
There really shouldn't be the generic "press a key to sneak" system. If anything, it should lower your visibility level as to simulate the smaller silhouette when crouched. (BTW, by visibility level, I mean the distance you can be seen from) | |
| | | Tenebrarum Society Team Lead
Posts : 1179 Reputation : 32 Join date : 2010-10-01 Age : 30 Location : ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
| Subject: Re: Finalizing Aware Concept Thu Aug 18, 2011 5:44 pm | |
| - Commander Keen wrote:
- Just tried this layout on an arcade heli game, as the action most probably resembles that of flying organisms (they move quickly as they are rather small) and I must say it turned out to be horribe. The CTRL get's in the way too often and SPACE is too clumsy to be used as a height control. What about having WSAD as horizontal moving, QE as ascend/descend and moving the Examine function to R/T/RMB?
While this may be true for you, this is what most games use and most people are comfortable with. We'll always have the ability to mess around with key-bindings induvidually. - Commander Keen wrote:
- I have had a similar system in mind for a while. What I don't like on your interpretation though is that standing still can increase Energy as well, thus allowing avoiding sleeping just by staying still, and that the stamina is only used on running and has seemingly no effect on Energy. Let's see if I can improve it:
I was trying to compensate for the fact that some organisms don't sleep at all, BUT.... - Commander Keen wrote:
- Instead of actions draining Energy directly, they would drain Stamina. Every action would drain stamina, but different amounts of stamina would be drained for different tasks, some actions would even drain stamina slower than it regenerates (walking). Stamina would deplete fast, but also regenerate pretty quickly. If you run out of stamina, you can't perform any actions (forcing you to stop for until it regenerates).
However, recharging Stamina would use up Energy. The more Stamina you use, the more Energy is drained. As Energy can be regained only by sleeping, you will naturally want to use as little Stamina as possible to conserve your energy. If you run out of Energy, you will pass out (forced sleep) for about enough time to regenerate 1/4 of your stamina shard. You will be very vulnerable in the meantime though, so passing out is never a good thing. ZARQUON IN PARADISE I LOVE IT! - Commander Keen wrote:
- There really shouldn't be the generic "press a key to sneak" system. If anything, it should lower your visibility level as to simulate the smaller silhouette when crouched. (BTW, by visibility level, I mean the distance you can be seen from)
Well, even in the case you can't crouch at all, camo has an effect. More of what I mean is that the game will use crouching as a cue that you're trying to hide, and allow you to use any special camo you have, a la octopi. | |
| | | US_of_Alaska Overall Team Co-Lead
Posts : 1335 Reputation : 29 Join date : 2010-07-07 Age : 31 Location : Australia
| Subject: Re: Finalizing Aware Concept Thu Aug 18, 2011 5:50 pm | |
| Hmm... I have to agree with Rex on the movement controls. It seems more normal, but we can always reassess when we get there.
And i just want to note that you have "interacting with your environment" a lot in there, but never the controls on how to do it. We are going with the left click = default action, right click = possible options, right? | |
| | | Tenebrarum Society Team Lead
Posts : 1179 Reputation : 32 Join date : 2010-10-01 Age : 30 Location : ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
| Subject: Re: Finalizing Aware Concept Thu Aug 18, 2011 5:54 pm | |
| - US_of_Alaska wrote:
- And i just want to note that you have "interacting with your environment" a lot in there, but never the controls on how to do it. We are going with the left click = default action, right click = possible options, right?
It depends on how combat ends up working. | |
| | | The Uteen Sandbox Team Lead
Posts : 1476 Reputation : 70 Join date : 2010-07-06 Age : 27 Location : England, Virgo Supercluster
| Subject: Re: Finalizing Aware Concept Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:07 am | |
| I'm not sure about that shift + control thing either... This whole system makes it seem unnatural to go up & down, in my opinion. If you don't have to look up to go up, you'd end up going up tail-fin or something half of the time. Maybe it could work with helicopters, which tend to stay upside up (I assume you got the controls from those sorts of games), but most sea creatures face the direction they want to go in, including if going up and down.
Also, about using the wasd keys, I never seen a fish swim sideways or backwards to the direction it is facing. That sort of movement is rather odd for sea creatures streamlined for forwards movement, like fish. (I know it is probably to unify the controls, but it really is a bad idea. Sideways and backwards movement is generally only used by land creatures, so apart from special cases these buttons would remain untouched)
While we are getting the option to have alternate keybindings, what about if I wanted to use mouse to look around and have keys to accelerate and decelerate, and roll clockwise and anti-clockwise (something missed out on that longpost, for birds too)? I think that system would work quite a bit better, and rolling is important for birds to turn, while going backwards or sideways isn't.
Thus ends my rant, and begins my moan inducer.
What about hibernation? Would that need a third energy bar? What about building up fat reserves? | |
| | | Tenebrarum Society Team Lead
Posts : 1179 Reputation : 32 Join date : 2010-10-01 Age : 30 Location : ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
| Subject: Re: Finalizing Aware Concept Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:29 am | |
| - The Uteen wrote:
- I'm not sure about that shift + control thing either... This whole system makes it seem unnatural to go up & down, in my opinion. If you don't have to look up to go up, you'd end up going up tail-fin or something half of the time. Maybe it could work with helicopters, which tend to stay upside up (I assume you got the controls from those sorts of games), but most sea creatures face the direction they want to go in, including if going up and down.
Also, about using the wasd keys, I never seen a fish swim sideways or backwards to the direction it is facing. That sort of movement is rather odd for sea creatures streamlined for forwards movement, like fish. (I know it is probably to unify the controls, but it really is a bad idea. Sideways and backwards movement is generally only used by land creatures, so apart from special cases these buttons would remain untouched)
While we are getting the option to have alternate keybindings, what about if I wanted to use mouse to look around and have keys to accelerate and decelerate, and roll clockwise and anti-clockwise (something missed out on that longpost, for birds too)? I think that system would work quite a bit better, and rolling is important for birds to turn, while going backwards or sideways isn't. You wouldn't be strafing love. The org would turn but the camera wouldn't. You only strafe on land or hovering. - The Uteen wrote:
- What about hibernation? Would that need a third energy bar? What about building up fat reserves?
I already nmentioned fat under nutrition, and hibernation is specific enough that we can add it later. | |
| | | The Uteen Sandbox Team Lead
Posts : 1476 Reputation : 70 Join date : 2010-07-06 Age : 27 Location : England, Virgo Supercluster
| Subject: Re: Finalizing Aware Concept Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:17 pm | |
| - Tenebrarum wrote:
- The Uteen wrote:
- I'm not sure about that shift + control thing either... This whole system makes it seem unnatural to go up & down, in my opinion. If you don't have to look up to go up, you'd end up going up tail-fin or something half of the time. Maybe it could work with helicopters, which tend to stay upside up (I assume you got the controls from those sorts of games), but most sea creatures face the direction they want to go in, including if going up and down.
Also, about using the wasd keys, I never seen a fish swim sideways or backwards to the direction it is facing. That sort of movement is rather odd for sea creatures streamlined for forwards movement, like fish. (I know it is probably to unify the controls, but it really is a bad idea. Sideways and backwards movement is generally only used by land creatures, so apart from special cases these buttons would remain untouched)
While we are getting the option to have alternate keybindings, what about if I wanted to use mouse to look around and have keys to accelerate and decelerate, and roll clockwise and anti-clockwise (something missed out on that longpost, for birds too)? I think that system would work quite a bit better, and rolling is important for birds to turn, while going backwards or sideways isn't. You wouldn't be strafing love. The org would turn but the camera wouldn't. You only strafe on land or hovering. I still don't think it makes sense doing it this way. You wouldn't be able to see where you're going. And I was thinking about these controls in first person. If you press 'd', for example, and the org turns, does it continue turning or just go 90 degrees and then stop? How would you go less than 90 degrees? And if it keeps turning, what does 's' do? I'm sure my idea would be much more straightforward. - Quote :
- The Uteen wrote:
- What about hibernation? Would that need a third energy bar? What about building up fat reserves?
I already nmentioned fat under nutrition, and hibernation is specific enough that we can add it later. I mean fat as in an indication to the player they need to build up the reserves. A warning is needed so the player knows to build up food and water reserves, and to find a suitable place. | |
| | | Commander Keen Industrial Team Lead
Posts : 1123 Reputation : 36 Join date : 2010-07-23 Location : Czech Republic (not that anyone would know where it is...)
| Subject: Re: Finalizing Aware Concept Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:03 am | |
| - The Uteen wrote:
I still don't think it makes sense doing it this way. You wouldn't be able to see where you're going. And I was thinking about these controls in first person. If you press 'd', for example, and the org turns, does it continue turning or just go 90 degrees and then stop? How would you go less than 90 degrees? And if it keeps turning, what does 's' do? Really, it's simple. W makes you swim forward, S turns the creature 180 degrees and makes it swim away from the camera's facing. A and D turn the creature 90 degrees and make it swim to the either side. Combinations would make the creature swim to average of the degrees, so if you hold W (0 degrees) and D (90 degrees) the creature would swim in 45 degrees (ie front right movement). Note that the degrees I am talking in are always relative to the camera, so 0 degrees is always the camera's facing. Also, you could still steer your organism by mouse for more precision. The WSAD system is here just for convenience. - Quote :
- I mean fat as in an indication to the player they need to build up the reserves. A warning is needed so the player knows to build up food and water reserves, and to find a suitable place.
Not all creatures do that, and we could just warn them the first time they need to do it by the tutorial. | |
| | | The Uteen Sandbox Team Lead
Posts : 1476 Reputation : 70 Join date : 2010-07-06 Age : 27 Location : England, Virgo Supercluster
| Subject: Re: Finalizing Aware Concept Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:03 am | |
| - Commander Keen wrote:
- The Uteen wrote:
I still don't think it makes sense doing it this way. You wouldn't be able to see where you're going. And I was thinking about these controls in first person. If you press 'd', for example, and the org turns, does it continue turning or just go 90 degrees and then stop? How would you go less than 90 degrees? And if it keeps turning, what does 's' do? Really, it's simple. W makes you swim forward, S turns the creature 180 degrees and makes it swim away from the camera's facing. A and D turn the creature 90 degrees and make it swim to the either side. Combinations would make the creature swim to average of the degrees, so if you hold W (0 degrees) and D (90 degrees) the creature would swim in 45 degrees (ie front right movement). Note that the degrees I am talking in are always relative to the camera, so 0 degrees is always the camera's facing.
Also, you could still steer your organism by mouse for more precision. The WSAD system is here just for convenience. ...This is a third person orientated system, which wouldn't really work in first. I'm trying to support a first person system, which wouldn't really work in third... We could always just use one for each camera type. Anyway, the thing I think I don't like about this system is you can use the mouse for precision on a 2D plane, but there's no precision in a 3D plane... Just one key for up, one for down... What about the Homeworld system, where you hold down a button and set the height of the destination with the mouse? Or was that implied? - Quote :
-
- Quote :
- I mean fat as in an indication to the player they need to build up the reserves. A warning is needed so the player knows to build up food and water reserves, and to find a suitable place.
Not all creatures do that, and we could just warn them the first time they need to do it by the tutorial. So they have to have the tutorial open to learn their creature has evolved hibernation? And they don't just need notifying the first time, if the next times they forget, or don't get enough food (they won't measure the amount they eat, they'll just eat loads and hope it's enough), they'll enter hibernation and starve... And little hedgehog creature will die... And player will cry... We don't want that... Unless the hedgehog creature is a vicious killing machine... Well, not machine... Killing creature... But I suppose it could be a machine... The rabid-hedgehog-o-matic 9000, the horror movie of a hedgehog robot that tortures with it's deadly venomous spikes. Tortures little kittens! You want this to die when it hibernates! | |
| | | Tenebrarum Society Team Lead
Posts : 1179 Reputation : 32 Join date : 2010-10-01 Age : 30 Location : ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
| Subject: Re: Finalizing Aware Concept Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:11 pm | |
| Okay. Hibernation: as cool as it would be to have, what I'm trying to determine here is the VERY BARE BONES of the Aware stage. The absolute minimum amount of stuff we need to make it work. Hibernation will be added once we have a skeleton. I promise. But right now we should be focusing on more important behaiviors, like transition from solitary survival to communities. The creation of nests and lairs. Territories. Hives. Mating behaiviors.
Hibernation is an interesting, but very specific survival technique that only pops up depending on certain planetary conditions. These other things I've mentioned are much broader and need to be more specifically defined. | |
| | | Commander Keen Industrial Team Lead
Posts : 1123 Reputation : 36 Join date : 2010-07-23 Location : Czech Republic (not that anyone would know where it is...)
| Subject: Re: Finalizing Aware Concept Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:16 pm | |
| - The Uteen wrote:
- ...This is a third person orientated system, which wouldn't really work in first. I'm trying to support a first person system, which wouldn't really work in third... We could always just use one for each camera type.
Anyway, the thing I think I don't like about this system is you can use the mouse for precision on a 2D plane, but there's no precision in a 3D plane... Just one key for up, one for down...
What about the Homeworld system, where you hold down a button and set the height of the destination with the mouse? Or was that implied? Mouselooking allows for great accuracy in 3d space (see this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYvP5gUmkVY - horrible video, good showcase of the mouselook system in action). As we aren't using Spore's point and click system but a more usual "hold x to move", this works very well. We have adopted something similar to the Homeworld model in Strat mode, though (without knowing about Homeworld at all). | |
| | | The Uteen Sandbox Team Lead
Posts : 1476 Reputation : 70 Join date : 2010-07-06 Age : 27 Location : England, Virgo Supercluster
| Subject: Re: Finalizing Aware Concept Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:51 pm | |
| - Commander Keen wrote:
- The Uteen wrote:
- ...This is a third person orientated system, which wouldn't really work in first. I'm trying to support a first person system, which wouldn't really work in third... We could always just use one for each camera type.
Anyway, the thing I think I don't like about this system is you can use the mouse for precision on a 2D plane, but there's no precision in a 3D plane... Just one key for up, one for down...
What about the Homeworld system, where you hold down a button and set the height of the destination with the mouse? Or was that implied? Mouselooking allows for great accuracy in 3d space (see this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYvP5gUmkVY - horrible video, good showcase of the mouselook system in action). As we aren't using Spore's point and click system but a more usual "hold x to move", this works very well. Wait... You're talking about using 'mouselooking' (there's a word for it!) with the wasd? (Just noticed you mentioned that in the last post) Hmm... I suppose. And first person? And I do like the manual roll, for creatures that can roll, we need to have that in somewhere. How else will we do the crocodile death-roll, for example? Don't answer that, you might make it seem unnecessary. - Quote :
- We have adopted something similar to the Homeworld model in Strat mode, though (without knowing about Homeworld at all).
I'd forgotten about Strat Mode. These controls do work best in that mode... Let's not interfere with those... At least, for now... | |
| | | The Uteen Sandbox Team Lead
Posts : 1476 Reputation : 70 Join date : 2010-07-06 Age : 27 Location : England, Virgo Supercluster
| Subject: Re: Finalizing Aware Concept Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:52 am | |
| - The Uteen wrote:
-
- Quote :
- We have adopted something similar to the Homeworld model in Strat mode, though (without knowing about Homeworld at all).
I'd forgotten about Strat Mode. These controls do work best in that mode... Let's not interfere with those... At least, for now... Okay, now let's interfere with them. Do we have any system for formations in strategy mode? I know it seems like I might be copying Homeworld a bit, and maybe I am, but no, I'm not. You wouldn't just be able to choose from a list, most creatures wouldn't even have any formations. But, some, like schools of fish and hunting packs, do have formations... Actually, they're more like... Pack behaviours. The name is open for a vote. But what I'm talking about is a way to select multiple organisms, and make them stick together, and work as one. A school of fish moves as one, a hunting pack works together to catch prey. Depending on the behaviour of the creature, the... 'Pack behaviour' would work differently. For some, they work together tactically to achieve a goal, positioning themselves strategically, etc.. For others, like a school of fish, they act as one larger organism, packing tightly together in a ball and synchronising their movements. When a group is told to use 'pack behaviour', they will work together in a certain way, depending on how they behave, and move to the appropriate location. The group would also get assigned a number, or a shortcut key, to quickly be selected. If they are spread out, this will definitely be helpful, if they act as a giant ball, they act like one organism so it would be easier to select them all in one go... So it's quite different to Homeworld, really. And formations... I made it up as I was making the post.
Last edited by The Uteen on Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:17 am; edited 1 time in total | |
| | | ~sciocont Overall Team Lead
Posts : 3406 Reputation : 138 Join date : 2010-07-06
| Subject: Re: Finalizing Aware Concept Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:52 am | |
| - The Uteen wrote:
- [quote=The Uteen]
- Quote :
- We have adopted something similar to the Homeworld model in Strat mode, though (without knowing about Homeworld at all).
I'd forgotten about Strat Mode. These controls do work best in that mode... Let's not interfere with those... At least, for now... Okay, now let's interfere with them. Do we have any system for formations in strategy mode? I know it seems like I might be copying Homeworld a bit, and maybe I am, but no, I'm not. You wouldn't just be able to choose from a list, most creatures wouldn't even have any formations. But, some, like schools of fish and hunting packs, do have formations... Actually, they're more like... Pack behaviours. The name is open for a vote. But what I'm talking about is a way to select multiple organisms, and make them stick together, and work as one. A school of fish moves as one, a hunting pack works together to catch prey. Depending on the behaviour of the creature, the... 'Pack behaviour' would work differently. For some, they work together tactically to achieve a goal, positioning themselves strategically, etc.. For others, like a school of fish, they act as one larger organism, packing tightly together in a ball and synchronising their movements. When a group is told to use 'pack behaviour', they will work together in a certain way, depending on how they behave, and move to the appropriate location. The group would also get assigned a number, or a shortcut key, to quickly be selected. If they are spread out, this will definitely be helpful, if they act as a giant ball, they act like one organism so it would be easier to select them all in one go... So it's quite different to Homeworld, really. And formations... I made it up as I was making the post.[/quote] That's a good idea, it should be covered in the BE. | |
| | | Commander Keen Industrial Team Lead
Posts : 1123 Reputation : 36 Join date : 2010-07-23 Location : Czech Republic (not that anyone would know where it is...)
| Subject: Re: Finalizing Aware Concept Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:28 pm | |
| This will work for organism mode. Post Aware / Strategy mode, the formations system is already made. It's on the wiki, let me search a bit.. here, fourth and fifth paragraph.
Also, remember that you will have little control of your buddies until you gain sentience (or was this bit changed for sake of easier gameplay? I don't really remember..) | |
| | | Tenebrarum Society Team Lead
Posts : 1179 Reputation : 32 Join date : 2010-10-01 Age : 30 Location : ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
| Subject: Re: Finalizing Aware Concept Tue Aug 30, 2011 7:12 pm | |
| - Commander Keen wrote:
- This will work for organism mode. Post Aware / Strategy mode, the formations system is already made. It's on the wiki, let me search a bit.. here, fourth and fifth paragraph.
Also, remember that you will have little control of your buddies until you gain sentience (or was this bit changed for sake of easier gameplay? I don't really remember..) It remains. You only have control of a few organisms. Good system. We should update the BE. | |
| | | Tenebrarum Society Team Lead
Posts : 1179 Reputation : 32 Join date : 2010-10-01 Age : 30 Location : ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
| Subject: Re: Finalizing Aware Concept Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:50 pm | |
| Bump: Added current combat and intelligence concepts to original longpost. | |
| | | Tenebrarum Society Team Lead
Posts : 1179 Reputation : 32 Join date : 2010-10-01 Age : 30 Location : ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
| Subject: Re: Finalizing Aware Concept Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:14 pm | |
| Bump: Is this greened enough to warrant a sticky/addition to the wiki? | |
| | | ~sciocont Overall Team Lead
Posts : 3406 Reputation : 138 Join date : 2010-07-06
| Subject: Re: Finalizing Aware Concept Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:41 pm | |
| - Tenebrarum wrote:
- Bump: Is this greened enough to warrant a sticky/addition to the wiki?
Go through with it. | |
| | | Grep42 Newcomer
Posts : 17 Reputation : 0 Join date : 2012-06-06 Age : 25 Location : In a cave, wondering how she got a computer.
| Subject: Re: Finalizing Aware Concept Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:50 pm | |
| On the controls for flying/swimming creatures, what if you hold the left mouse button to move and move around the mouse to change direction. Sort of like dragging your creature around. The same would also work well for terrestrial creatures. | |
| | | zippybomb Newcomer
Posts : 73 Reputation : 2 Join date : 2012-06-13 Age : 25 Location : Vancouver, Canada
| Subject: Re: Finalizing Aware Concept Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:53 pm | |
| - The Uteen wrote:
- The Uteen wrote:
-
- Quote :
- We have adopted something similar to the Homeworld model in Strat mode, though (without knowing about Homeworld at all).
I'd forgotten about Strat Mode. These controls do work best in that mode... Let's not interfere with those... At least, for now... Okay, now let's interfere with them.
Do we have any system for formations in strategy mode? I know it seems like I might be copying Homeworld a bit, and maybe I am, but no, I'm not. You wouldn't just be able to choose from a list, most creatures wouldn't even have any formations. But, some, like schools of fish and hunting packs, do have formations... Actually, they're more like... Pack behaviours. The name is open for a vote. But what I'm talking about is a way to select multiple organisms, and make them stick together, and work as one. A school of fish moves as one, a hunting pack works together to catch prey. Depending on the behaviour of the creature, the... 'Pack behaviour' would work differently. For some, they work together tactically to achieve a goal, positioning themselves strategically, etc.. For others, like a school of fish, they act as one larger organism, packing tightly together in a ball and synchronising their movements. When a group is told to use 'pack behaviour', they will work together in a certain way, depending on how they behave, and move to the appropriate location. The group would also get assigned a number, or a shortcut key, to quickly be selected. If they are spread out, this will definitely be helpful, if they act as a giant ball, they act like one organism so it would be easier to select them all in one go... So it's quite different to Homeworld, really. And formations... I made it up as I was making the post. Why don't we have buttons in the HUD so you can select different patterns of attack with your pack. So say you see a herd, you select a pattern to seperate one from the group, like predators do in the wild, and when you run at the herd to scatter them, your other pack members would seperate the selected prey animal and take it down with you. You would still keep your first or third person view and I think that would keep it a lot more exciting and personal. Just an idea. | |
| | | The Uteen Sandbox Team Lead
Posts : 1476 Reputation : 70 Join date : 2010-07-06 Age : 27 Location : England, Virgo Supercluster
| Subject: Re: Finalizing Aware Concept Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:35 pm | |
| - zippybomb wrote:
- The Uteen wrote:
- The Uteen wrote:
-
- Quote :
- We have adopted something similar to the Homeworld model in Strat mode, though (without knowing about Homeworld at all).
I'd forgotten about Strat Mode. These controls do work best in that mode... Let's not interfere with those... At least, for now... Okay, now let's interfere with them.
Do we have any system for formations in strategy mode? I know it seems like I might be copying Homeworld a bit, and maybe I am, but no, I'm not. You wouldn't just be able to choose from a list, most creatures wouldn't even have any formations. But, some, like schools of fish and hunting packs, do have formations... Actually, they're more like... Pack behaviours. The name is open for a vote. But what I'm talking about is a way to select multiple organisms, and make them stick together, and work as one. A school of fish moves as one, a hunting pack works together to catch prey. Depending on the behaviour of the creature, the... 'Pack behaviour' would work differently. For some, they work together tactically to achieve a goal, positioning themselves strategically, etc.. For others, like a school of fish, they act as one larger organism, packing tightly together in a ball and synchronising their movements. When a group is told to use 'pack behaviour', they will work together in a certain way, depending on how they behave, and move to the appropriate location. The group would also get assigned a number, or a shortcut key, to quickly be selected. If they are spread out, this will definitely be helpful, if they act as a giant ball, they act like one organism so it would be easier to select them all in one go... So it's quite different to Homeworld, really. And formations... I made it up as I was making the post.
Why don't we have buttons in the HUD so you can select different patterns of attack with your pack. So say you see a herd, you select a pattern to seperate one from the group, like predators do in the wild, and when you run at the herd to scatter them, your other pack members would seperate the selected prey animal and take it down with you. You would still keep your first or third person view and I think that would keep it a lot more exciting and personal. Just an idea. Maybe, or a toggle button. We don't want too many buttons in the interface, and there will no doubt be a lot. Also, you will have a third person view in this case - these are the controls for RTS/strategy mode, not organism mode, though there will probably be some overlap. | |
| | | MeowMan1 Regular
Posts : 255 Reputation : -7 Join date : 2012-03-04 Age : 25 Location : Virginia
| Subject: Re: Finalizing Aware Concept Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:51 pm | |
| Why not just be able to switch between first person and third person, for organismode, and maybe even when Your species forms a tribe, You could look through the eyes of one of Your tribe members, or watch them from afar, which would be the third person mode. If this idea has already been suggested, I apologize.
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