Simple language generator (v1.01)

Subject: Simple language generator (v1.01) Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:58 am

Recently I needed a word generator for another project of mine, so I made one. I figured you might be interested by it, so here it is. It's really a simple thing, don't expect anything big. All it does is randomly setting some variables (such as how much is each letter used or maximum consecutive vowels) and then generates exactly 1000 words.

Here it is: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/54710394/LangGen.rar (v1.01)

All you need to do is to just run the exe file and it will generate "langfile.txt". If you want another set of words (and parameters), just run the exe file again and a new langfile.txt will be generated.

If anyone wants to port it to Linux (Roadkill), the source is included. I have used the cross-compatible SFML 1.6 for the random functions, so you just need to download it or replace the random functions with commands of your choice.

Subject: Re: Simple language generator (v1.01) Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:24 am

Excellent work. This is the first step towards different languages in the game. This is really cool, but I have a few questions.
Why is "I" a consonant? (probably just a typo, since it's listed under consonant and vowel, but still)
why do I have words longer than 4 letters if the max word length is 4?
could we cut down on short (2 and 3 letter) words?
In case anyone is wondering what this system looks like, but can't or isn't able to download or run it, here's a new file I just made.

Spoiler:

Subject: Re: Simple language generator (v1.01) Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:52 am

Updated. Fixed I being a consonant and tweaked the values to allow bigger differences between languages.

Digraphs currently count as a single letter and don't respect the 'max consecutive vowels/consonants' rule. That will get fixed later.

Subject: Re: Simple language generator (v1.01) Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:24 pm

Commander Keen wrote:: Updated. Fixed I being a consonant and tweaked the values to allow bigger differences between languages.

Digraphs currently count as a single letter and don't respect the 'max consecutive vowels/consonants' rule. That will get fixed later.

Cool. Where can we use this in game?

Subject: Re: Simple language generator (v1.01) Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:53 pm

I don't really know. I originally made this for my roguelike and had it generate names for all items and characters. We could call it to generate names for AI nations' towns and TOs, and maybe even the player's if he chooses so, bonus points for every nation using a different language.

Subject: Re: Simple language generator (v1.01) Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:32 pm

Commander Keen wrote:: I don't really know. I originally made this for my roguelike and had it generate names for all items and characters. We could call it to generate names for AI nations' towns and TOs, and maybe even the player's if he chooses so, bonus points for every nation using a different language.

Great.

Subject: Re: Simple language generator (v1.01) Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:58 pm

What rendering library did you use for your roguelike? I wrote an engine not too long ago using SDL. It could load any given character set, much like dwarf fortress.

Subject: Re: Simple language generator (v1.01) Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:36 pm

OpenGL through SFML. SFML is just like SDL with a few extra handy functions, so I just use it instead of SDL. The roguelike has graphical tiles (no ASCII), the tileset is selectable and can be of any size - I use 16x16, 24x24 and 32x32 for testing, but even weird sizes like 69x69 work well. So far, it's more like an infinite-world sandbox editor than an actual roguelike because I got stuck on NPC AI.

Subject: Re: Simple language generator (v1.01) Tue Dec 27, 2011 3:24 pm

This prototype is a very good beginning; but there are several things missing that would constitute a randomly generated dictionary that could be used in a Thrive Procedural Language. For the generation of in-game languages, this website may be useful.

Subject: Re: Simple language generator (v1.01) Tue Dec 27, 2011 3:54 pm

I was trying to write one in ncurses and then I eventually just wrote my own engine for it. It was going to be the coolest post apocalyptic roguelike ever, but I could never really figure out how to organize levels and stairs and such in a non cluttered way.

Subject: Re: Simple language generator (v1.01) Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:57 pm

@GamerXA - I want to keep this simple. Post exactly what features would you want to see and I will try to implement them, but nothing overly complex like automagically making it's own font or similar things. Of course in Thrive, we can use an improved version with those features, but I need to use this basic version for other projects.

@roadkill - Good thing Legendaria has no stairs then I have sacrificed them for an infinite* world using Minecraft style chunk approach, except 2d. Mind posting a link to your engine? I could really use some hint for the AI.

*will be actually on a procedural landmass, limited by seas

Subject: Re: Simple language generator (v1.01) Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:25 am

Commander Keen wrote:: @roadkill - Good thing Legendaria has no stairs then I have sacrificed them for an infinite* world using Minecraft style chunk approach, except 2d. Mind posting a link to your engine? I could really use some hint for the AI.

Whoa there. I never got that far. In fact there was this bug I was never able to solve involving changing the window resolution to a non multiple of 4. (It was seriously retarted.)

EDIT: Wow. SFML looks really cool. The API is super simple. Looks like they're actually using C++. Really puts SDL to shame IMO.

Subject: Re: Simple language generator (v1.01) Wed Dec 28, 2011 6:51 am

Ahh, in a flash of genius I fixed the AI bug. Weeks of increasingly massive changes to the code yielding nothing, and a single line change suddenly makes it work. Hard is the life of a C++ programmer...

Porting the current Thrive source to SFML is easy, just done it on my Windows build. BTW, how does your quadtree work? I made some simple quadtrees for collision detection in the past, but I can only make your crash..

Subject: Re: Simple language generator (v1.01) Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:41 pm

Commander Keen wrote:: Ahh, in a flash of genius I fixed the AI bug. Weeks of increasingly massive changes to the code yielding nothing, and a single line change suddenly makes it work. Hard is the life of a C++ programmer...

Porting the current Thrive source to SFML is easy, just done it on my Windows build. BTW, how does your quadtree work? I made some simple quadtrees for collision detection in the past, but I can only make your crash..

Yo, commit that Belgium. I'll get the makefile working.

As for the quadtree. I thought it worked. If it's any consolation, of a given map must be of 2^n + 1. (Technically it only needs to be divisible by two for each sublevel) The point is to subdivide terrain data all the way to the bottom, and have each node make a vertex buffer or something. That way we just have to tell it to render and it's cause for less overhead.

EDIT: I just wrote a basic library that contains the rendering loop and phase engine. It utilizes sfml, so I'll commit soon.

Subject: Re: Simple language generator (v1.01) Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:00 am

MERCURIAL, Y U NO MAKE SENSE!?

If it's still any use, here's a download link to the SFML ported Thrive: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/54710394/thrive_sfml.rar

Do I need to have my account set as a Thrive's developer to be able to commit? Not that it would matter much as I still haven't figured out TortoiseHg..

Subject: Re: Simple language generator (v1.01) Fri Dec 30, 2011 8:58 pm

I've been thinking about language recently. If at all possible, for spoken word at least, I'd like to have recognizable differences in the sound and structure of the language.

This shouldn't be too hard, although we are gonna need a LOT of voice acting in the long run. What I think will be hard is dealing with alternate vocal structures and communication forms. I can talk in gibberish easy. I can make it sound like a number of different languages. What I can't do is imitate multiple languages that use body motion, color changes, or any number of sounds beyond what my poor vocal chords can produce.

In any case, I think we might (keyword: might) want to start looking at possible structures that we can use as languages. We may also want to look at tone, emotion, context, and gender.

Subject: Re: Simple language generator (v1.01) Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:37 am

Again, this is years down the line. We can't focus on that now.

Subject: Re: Simple language generator (v1.01) Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:14 pm

Commander Keen wrote:: MERCURIAL, Y U NO MAKE SENSE!?

If it's still any use, here's a download link to the SFML ported Thrive: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/54710394/thrive_sfml.rar

Do I need to have my account set as a Thrive's developer to be able to commit? Not that it would matter much as I still haven't figured out TortoiseHg..

Yeah, probably. What's your sourceforge username?

Subject: Re: Simple language generator (v1.01) Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:28 pm

'commandkeen', without the quotes.

Subject: Re: Simple language generator (v1.01) Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:40 pm

Commander Keen wrote:: 'commandkeen', without the quotes.

Added.

Subject: Re: Simple language generator (v1.01) Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:58 pm

Tenebrarum wrote:: I've been thinking about language recently. If at all possible, for spoken word at least, I'd like to have recognizable differences in the sound and structure of the language.

This shouldn't be too hard, although we are gonna need a LOT of voice acting in the long run. What I think will be hard is dealing with alternate vocal structures and communication forms. I can talk in gibberish easy. I can make it sound like a number of different languages. What I can't do is imitate multiple languages that use body motion, color changes, or any number of sounds beyond what my poor vocal chords can produce.

In any case, I think we might (keyword: might) want to start looking at possible structures that we can use as languages. We may also want to look at tone, emotion, context, and gender.

I'll have a look when I get back from Guatemala. But I think, for gameplay's sake, that we're going to have to stick with strictly audio and visual effects for communication. And I know it's going to be a pain to include odd random animations for gestures to begin with, but body language can be done... probably.

I've tried writing a whole new language before. Multiple times. It's harder than one might think, even with out variables such as syntax, gender, number, tense, declension and inflection. I'd love a whole new language, but randomly generated phonemes might be our best bet. And of course, there's always random sound bytes of, say, clicks and whistles and whalesong. A few of us can even manage to make random noises on an instrument, so I suppose we could always use those as well.

Subject: Re: Simple language generator (v1.01) Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:28 pm

Keen, can you make one of these with variables that are human editable?

Subject: Re: Simple language generator (v1.01) Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:09 pm

What exactly do you mean? Some sort of interface?

Subject: Re: Simple language generator (v1.01) Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:06 pm

Commander Keen wrote:: What exactly do you mean? Some sort of interface?

Yeah, just a pop up that lets me set up what letters I want, word length, etc.

Subject: Re: Simple language generator (v1.01) Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:30 am

I'll see about it. Loading from a file will be much easier to implement, if you don't mind.

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