Organ Design

In Thrive, the placement and connection of organs has already been pretty much set in stone (see the OE). Since it's been quite slow around here lately (which is partially a good thing, because it means we've figured out most of the game) I think it's time that we get to do some fun game design stuff, which includes designing different organs for organisms within the game.

Organs usually won't be seen (most of them will be internal), but that's what makes them so fun- you can give them lots of different attributes without affecting the outside appearance of the organism. A few categories of organs exist:

Circulatory- control the flow of liquids in the organism
Respiratory- control the flow of gases in and out of the organism
Digestive- control the flow of nutrients through the organism
Reproductive- allow the organism to reproduce
Nervous- the brain, nerves, and sensory organs, which we can discuss more in depth here.

We're going to be making up rules and attributes for these systems as we go, so get cracking.

ORGAN SUBMISSION TEMPLATE

ORGAN NAME
System:
Description:
Use:
Details:

APPROVED ORGAN LIST

Circulatory
Moves fluids around through the organism

Respiratory
Moves gases into and out of the organism.

Simple External Gill:

Simple Internal Gill:

Digestive
Processes foods and excretes wastes.

Reproductive
Creates gametes and all of the gear needed to make more organisms

Nervous
Sends immediate signals throughout the body, to and from a control point. Connects sensory organs together.

Ganglia[b:1159:

Brain:

Peripheral
Organs that aren't quite necessary- poison glands, bioluminescent areas, etc

Gland:

General
Sacs, tubes, pumps, etc. that aren't specifically aligned with any certain system.

Bladder:

APPROVED SKIN & DETAILS LIST
Here are the various body coverings and detail parts that can be placed on the outside of a creature.

Respiratory - Simple Lung
Places Oxygen (or other vital gas) into the organisms blood stream.

Requires nasal cavity or mouth to work.
Lung size can be adjusted -bigger lung = more endurance/stamina but more food/water needed
-smaller lung = less endurance/stamina but less food/water needed

lbrewer wrote:

Respiratory - Simple Lung
Places Oxygen (or other vital gas) into the organisms blood stream.

Requires nasal cavity or mouth to work.
Lung size can be adjusted -bigger lung = more endurance/stamina but more food/water needed
-smaller lung = less endurance/stamina but less food/water needed

That sounds great. Add that it should be internal.

I just watched something interesting. A documentary on dragons. If you are interested in that, you can see part 1 here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UovE4fMNwiQ&feature=relmfu If you want to cut to the chase, you need only read on. All animals have bacteria in our stomachs which produce gas from food, what if special bacteria could be in a creatures stomach that produce hydrogen gas from food. the hydrogen then goes to storage sacs in the creature. It could be used to help (but not immediately allow) large creatures to fly, but also is very flamable. The creature could also hunt down platinum deposits and chew (I guess) on the platinum to meld the platinum onto the teeth. Suppose the creature had an almost armored mouth and a valve over its trachea like a crocodile (crocodiles use it so their lungs don't flood when hunting underwater); and some way to vent the hydrogen out of its mouth. it could vent the hydrogen and cover its trachea with the valve so it wouldn't burn its lungs. When the platinum comes in contact with the hydrogen, the hydrogen ignites and voila! a fire breather! so what do you guys think? according to the documentary, its a completely logical ability.

let me guess......Discovery Channel's Dragons?.......i think its possible to do, but im not an expert in how Thrive works, guess this people have it covered already....

penumbra espinosa wrote:

let me guess......Discovery Channel's Dragons?.......i think its possible to do, but im not an expert in how Thrive works, guess this people have it covered already....

I believe it was called "dragons a fantasy made real" first aired on animal planet, possibly discovery channel afterwards. Also, the game is still in concept so as long as an idea is realistic, and possible to code, it's acceptable I guess.

Please take this to Organ Design.

~sciocont wrote:

Please take this to Organ Design.

Sorry, about that, wasn't sure where to put it.

Gryphogrox wrote:

~sciocont wrote:

Please take this to Organ Design.

Sorry, about that, wasn't sure where to put it.

Continuing: This organ is definitely a specialized one, and would have to be a sac attached to the digestive system and an orifice of your choosing.

~sciocont wrote:

Gryphogrox wrote:

~sciocont wrote:

Please take this to Organ Design.

Sorry, about that, wasn't sure where to put it.

Continuing: This organ is definitely a specialized one, and would have to be a sac attached to the digestive system and an orifice of your choosing.

The orifice would also need a catalyst and some muscles would be needed to hold in the hydrogen.

Digestive - Stomach
Stomach will convert food into a form usable by gut

Digestive - Gut
Each n length of gut will absorb a certain amount of nutrients from eaten food. Must be attached to the stomach at one end and an orfice at the other

Propulsive (?) - Salt Concentrator
Is required for osmotic movement (see Robert A. Freitas' Xenology, section 11.3.1)

Are these any good?

Brain: A complex centre of conscience required for complex functions [to be added in the behaviour editor].

Nervous system: Nerves (branching away from the brain(s) if present) which can quickly active a pre-programmed response to stimuli, can act as a safety system if closer to an area than the brain. Additionally, carries signals to and from the brain to more distant parts of the body.

*Disused*: A property applied to organs not used regularly to give auto-evo the signal to gradually weaken and remove the organ if use doesn't resume. [Can be used in editor to allow a 'regression' slider to make an organ with this process underway]

Is the last one okay? Would it be good to have this sort of thing as apply-able in the editor, or would the slider be present for every organ? As a feature that likely won't be used other than for a 'realistic' effect, it may be best to make it optional...

Holomanga wrote:

Digestive - Stomach
Stomach will convert food into a form usable by gut

Digestive - Gut
Each n length of gut will absorb a certain amount of nutrients from eaten food. Must be attached to the stomach at one end and an orfice at the other

Propulsive (?) - Salt Concentrator
Is required for osmotic movement (see Robert A. Freitas' Xenology, section 11.3.1)

Are these any good?

Well, stomach is, but a gut is the same thing as a stomach, the stomach should perform both the function you gave it and also the gut's function. I've never heard of a salt concentrator, I don't think one is necessary for osmotic movement, but I'm no scientist so I'm not sure.

Gryphogrox wrote:

Holomanga wrote:

Digestive - Stomach
Stomach will convert food into a form usable by gut

Digestive - Gut
Each n length of gut will absorb a certain amount of nutrients from eaten food. Must be attached to the stomach at one end and an orfice at the other

Propulsive (?) - Salt Concentrator
Is required for osmotic movement (see Robert A. Freitas' Xenology, section 11.3.1)

Are these any good?

Well, stomach is, but a gut is the same thing as a stomach, the stomach should perform both the function you gave it and also the gut's function. I've never heard of a salt concentrator, I don't think one is necessary for osmotic movement, but I'm no scientist so I'm not sure.

Gut = Intestines, at least in this case.

However: By definition, gut is the stomach or belly (defined as lower body, containing stomach and bowels). Also is the fibre made from intestines used in strings. (i.e. not the intestines themselves)

The Uteen wrote:

Brain: A complex centre of conscience required for complex functions [to be added in the behaviour editor].

Nervous system: Nerves (branching away from the brain(s) if present) which can quickly active a pre-programmed response to stimuli, can act as a safety system if closer to an area than the brain. Additionally, carries signals to and from the brain to more distant parts of the body.

*Disused*: A property applied to organs not used regularly to give auto-evo the signal to gradually weaken and remove the organ if use doesn't resume. [Can be used in editor to allow a 'regression' slider to make an organ with this process underway]

Is the last one okay? Would it be good to have this sort of thing as apply-able in the editor, or would the slider be present for every organ? As a feature that likely won't be used other than for a 'realistic' effect, it may be best to make it optional...

That last part is genius in my opinion, perhaps it should be how often the player or the game uses that in a situation where it is supposed to be used, for example, a defensive organ not used in a situation where a creatures life is threatened will be more likely to weaken, so since organs like stomachs are always used when a creature eats, it wont weaken and ultimately be removed if the creature is starving.

Gryphogrox wrote:

The Uteen wrote:

Brain: A complex centre of conscience required for complex functions [to be added in the behaviour editor].

Nervous system: Nerves (branching away from the brain(s) if present) which can quickly active a pre-programmed response to stimuli, can act as a safety system if closer to an area than the brain. Additionally, carries signals to and from the brain to more distant parts of the body.

*Disused*: A property applied to organs not used regularly to give auto-evo the signal to gradually weaken and remove the organ if use doesn't resume. [Can be used in editor to allow a 'regression' slider to make an organ with this process underway]

Is the last one okay? Would it be good to have this sort of thing as apply-able in the editor, or would the slider be present for every organ? As a feature that likely won't be used other than for a 'realistic' effect, it may be best to make it optional...

That last part is genius in my opinion, perhaps it should be how often the player or the game uses that in a situation where it is supposed to be used, for example, a defensive organ not used in a situation where a creatures life is threatened will be more likely to weaken, so since organs like stomachs are always used when a creature eats, it wont weaken and ultimately be removed if the creature is starving.

Great idea, but how do we determine use in a species other than the player. Do we even bother with it?

~sciocont wrote:

Gryphogrox wrote:

The Uteen wrote:

Brain: A complex centre of conscience required for complex functions [to be added in the behaviour editor].

Nervous system: Nerves (branching away from the brain(s) if present) which can quickly active a pre-programmed response to stimuli, can act as a safety system if closer to an area than the brain. Additionally, carries signals to and from the brain to more distant parts of the body.

*Disused*: A property applied to organs not used regularly to give auto-evo the signal to gradually weaken and remove the organ if use doesn't resume. [Can be used in editor to allow a 'regression' slider to make an organ with this process underway]

Is the last one okay? Would it be good to have this sort of thing as apply-able in the editor, or would the slider be present for every organ? As a feature that likely won't be used other than for a 'realistic' effect, it may be best to make it optional...

That last part is genius in my opinion, perhaps it should be how often the player or the game uses that in a situation where it is supposed to be used, for example, a defensive organ not used in a situation where a creatures life is threatened will be more likely to weaken, so since organs like stomachs are always used when a creature eats, it wont weaken and ultimately be removed if the creature is starving.

Great idea, but how do we determine use in a species other than the player. Do we even bother with it?

Hm, not sure about that. I was thinking the same principles could apply since the game has to come up with some way for the creature to react, it would just be far more random, but gradually, species who lost useful organs may die off leaving stronger ones to present a challenge for the player as the game goes on. Could that work?

I don't quite understand what you're getting at here- obviously, a species with weak organs is less fit than one with strong ones, but I don't understand how you want to decide if an organ becomes weaker or stronger.

~sciocont wrote:

I don't quite understand what you're getting at here- obviously, a species with weak organs is less fit than one with strong ones, but I don't understand how you want to decide if an organ becomes weaker or stronger.

It's actually really hard to explain, the original idea works I guess. As long as vital organs like the stomach do not disappear.

Gryphogrox wrote:

~sciocont wrote:

I don't quite understand what you're getting at here- obviously, a species with weak organs is less fit than one with strong ones, but I don't understand how you want to decide if an organ becomes weaker or stronger.

It's actually really hard to explain, the original idea works I guess. As long as vital organs like the stomach do not disappear.

obviously, only specialized organs will have this. essential organs can evolve, but disappearance should be impossible.

An example of how this would be determined in another species would be along the lines of a venom gland made to stun prey, the prey adapts to be resistant, so the gland either changes the poison composition, gets stronger, or gets weaker and eventually disappears if the population isn't affected by this or gets a new weapon to replace it, in which case they will most likely not be using it.

There are range of situations in which an organ could fall into disuse, but I noticed coming up with the example it will probably be quite hard to pinpoint all the situations or make a program that can work out when an organ should be disused... This is like evolution all over again... In fact, it's evolution backwards... It could even be the most powerful enemy we've ever faced, and could plunge us all into oblivion... Tricky...

The Uteen wrote:

An example of how this would be determined in another species would be along the lines of a venom gland made to stun prey, the prey adapts to be resistant, so the gland either changes the poison composition, gets stronger, or gets weaker and eventually disappears if the population isn't affected by this or gets a new weapon to replace it, in which case they will most likely not be using it.

There are range of situations in which an organ could fall into disuse, but I noticed coming up with the example it will probably be quite hard to pinpoint all the situations or make a program that can work out when an organ should be disused... This is like evolution all over again... In fact, it's evolution backwards... It could even be the most powerful enemy we've ever faced, and could plunge us all into oblivion... Tricky...

In some instances the organ could stay but serve no purpose like a human appendix.

Exactly, but how do we determine misuse?

*mystified silence*

If every organ stayed when not used we could end up with organisms growing many more appendix-like useless organs, and end up wasting food which could be used for useful growth... That's why we don't still have gills, or fur...

I suppose simulating everything happening in the galaxy isn't an option? Unlikely...

*mystified silence returns*